How then should she have responded?

As opposed to seeing how the voters feel?

Running for president ain't cheap. I remember a 1981 John Connolly ran for president, spent a then-scandalous six million dollars on his campaign and walked away with exactly one delegate to the Republican National Convention.

(Anyway, I said could not should)

also call for Franken to resign?

Calling for Al Franken to resign was the 2017 version of that. It looks ridiculous now, but we all went through that phase. We can't be one issue voters. We're gonna end up with a nominee who's done at least one thing that each of us has a problem with.

That's life in the information age. Judging candidates by single data point when we should be looking at larger character issues is self-sabotaging. If the worst thing a candidate has done is ask a guy to resign for mildly scandalous behavior, I'll count my blessings.

Franken’s resignation and less than 5 minutes after Gillibrand did.

Finally someone's seeing the light around here 😀

Or are you putting words in her mouth to demonize her?

...after the Franken thing.

still didn’t make right. I thought as progressives we embraced facts over beliefs.

Since when?

And there isn't a single thing you can do about it.

I guess we better apologize to Trump for demonizing President Obama for 8 years.

That's a fact.

And please quote where she personally attacked Franken:

I have no problem with you supporting Gillibrand, but I would also like the same courtesy from you toward people who want nothing to do with her.

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:34 PM - Edit history (1)

And I’m going to speak up when someone is unfairly and dishonestly demonized.

BTW That was also not the question she was asked so let’s be honest and not make stuff up.

It was a push, and partly a set-up, by Republicans, that Gillibrand fell for, which I believe was because it benefited her and some others. Real leaders don't do that. She's either easily manipulated, or she just acted on misinformation without checking facts.

And all 38 Senators did so as well?

Suffice to say: I will never support Gillibrand as the nominee. Now, when it comes to the GE, no way would I not vote and let a Republican win.

There were 33 total, as I recall. And yes, the others were followers. Not leaders.

Want a leader? Look for someone who had the gumption not to go along to get along, and/or someone who put the country's interests ahead of his or her own political aspirations, or actually took the time to learn about the facts, or was actually too savvy to be so easily manipulated by the Republicans. In other words, his/her name not on the list, or the person expressed regret.

There are a few, I believe, after Franken was more or less ousted, who stated, when asked, that maybe that was best. It's noteworthy that their names aren't on the list. That's not the same as the charge that Gillibrand led.

Please answer the question or admit that you can’t.

I'm not going to waste time explaining things to you and citing the facts and sources, the Youtube videos. It's all there...if you cared to read those things at the time.

It's all there. Get busy reading and researching.

You made the accusation. Please prove it.

Trying to think of what another kid in the schoolyard is supposed to say to the kid whose taunting you with the same nonsensical, juvenile gibberish.

Your mama wears army boots!
So's your old man!
Go string a fish!
Does your face hurt? 'Cause it's killin' me!

You made the accusation. Either prove it or admit you can’t.

Prove or accusation or admit that you can’t.

Simple question. Prove your accusation.

Answer the question or admit you can’t.

Like Climate Change. There's no issue here. You are a grownup, now. You can read. Do your own research. It's time you did, since you seem to care about Al Franken and the way that the Republicans used Gillibrand to oust the main Democrat that caught Sessions lying.

You made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Either prove the accusation, with links, or admit that you can’t.

No more evasions please. Either prove your accusation or admit that you can't.

You've proven nothing other than that you refuse to answer the question and back up your accusations.

This has been discussed numerous times in this forum, and there are videos and factual articles online, coupled with Al Franken's resignation speech. Fact is...if you wanted to know the truth, you would have read all this long before now. Even if someone tells you the facts, you wouldn't accept them, anyway. You'd just argue and go around and around in circles. You've decided where you stand, without all the facts, so there's no point in me spending all the time to list the facts for you. I've done it before and the Gillibrand supporter just doesn't respond, when she realizes what went down.

Gillibrand won't be the nominee.

Please answer the question or admit that you can't. If there are so many sources available there should be no problem finding and posting a few links.

Answer the question or admit that you can’t.

You don't want to know, or you would know already. You just followed the tip of the news on the issue, and didn't actually read facts. Just like spending time citing and sourcing info and facts to a climate denier, no explanation or facts will suffice. They have their minds made up and their own agenda. They don't care.

I've spent far too much time trying to point out the facts, but they believe what they want to believe. So do your own research and read prior threads. It's all there. The Republican manipulation to get Al Franken, and why. No one who fell for that is a leader. Even if their goal was innocent, they are easily duped and not politically savvy.

Gillibrand will not be the nominee. You'll see.

Stop harassing me. There are plenty of others in this forum who recognize the facts. You act like it's just me. The facts are all around you, if you care to look. But I see that despite days having passed after you were told by me and others about the facts, you have failed to research or read. It's obvious you don't care, judging from your failure to read up on this series of events. That's your right. But that's why you don't understand that she won't be the nominee.

Prove your accusation or admit that you can't. And please provide links from credible sources.

Links are easy to cut and paste here. I'll give you some examples:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/al-franken-calls-to-resign-senate.html

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/kirsten-gillibrand-al-franken-2020-election.html

I believe she wanted Franken out of the way.

She was driving the damn thing though.

I never said I wouldn't. All I said, in response to the other poster is you can't complain about me demonizing her after she basically demonized Franken.

I suggest you argue with the things I actually said and not the things you want to pretend I said.

....with gillibrand expressed regret for having done so. Gillibrand is a proven professional opportunist starting with using, and dumping on the Clintons, torpedoing Al Franken, right up to this year's midterm elections by hedging on her promise to fulfill her full term. I really don't understand how anyone can trust her.

I supported him in 2016. I'm ready for a fresh leader this time around. Someone under 60 would be great.

I wouldn't support her, unless it came down to her being the only choice against a Republican.

with her taking that tact. In fact, if I was her campaign manager I'd approach it the same way.
But then again, as her manager, I'd be telling her how she screwed over Senator Franken didn't help her cause.

the right women. Anyone who stabbed another Democrat in the back to further her own ambition is not IMO.

Including Obama and Biden? Men are forgiven for their ambition, for their transgressions - women not so much.

I don't really have an opinion yet about a 2020 candidate other than the more women we have in the running, the better.

You've been around DU enough to know Gillibrand's role in the Franken matter. You knew exactly what I was referring to and it certainly wasn't about all women.

See this response I posted earlier today as to my opinion on Democratic women becoming our nominee for president, not to mention that I canvassed, did voter reg and phone banked dilligently for Hillary's 2016 campaign.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11556681

I'll vote for the democratic ticket for sure, but she's not my favorite.

She's alienated too many people after her poor handling of the Franken "scandal".

with over 66% of the vote?

The only other choice in that election was a Republican.

than any other statewide candidate in New York and any other Democratic Senatorial candidate across the country.

Which was 66.4% BTW.

Obviously, a state with more people means more voters. And New York is a very Democratic state.

I'm supposed to be impressed that she got more votes than, say, Jon Tester?

has nothing to do with % margin of victory. And BTW she got a higher % of the vote than any other statewide candidate in New York.

She's one of their senators. It's hardly surprising that she got more votes than House candidates. And Cuomo is a pretty polarizing figure himself, so color me unimpressed that she got more votes than him as well.

including Cuomo and James. And a bigger % than any other Democratic Senator across the country.

Geez.

But they didn’t make sense. The number of total number of voters in a state is irrelevant to the margin of victory

I stated a simple fact, Gillibrand won re-election with 66.4% of the vote. That is a higher percentage than any other statewide candidate in New York or any Democratic Senator across the country. That is not a narrative but reality.

The false narrative is that Gillibrand was damaged by being one of 38 Senators who called for Franken to resign. Her margin of victory disputes that narrative.

Not that they never elect Republicans, but they haven't had a Republican Senator since Al D'Amato left office in 1999. Clearly her margin of victory is going to be higher than Democrats running in more purple states. I don't find that statistic particularly impressive and don't think it means anything in regards to her appeal as a national candidate.

And she still got a higher % of the vote than any other statewide democratic candidate. It was also a higher margin of victory than any other Democratic Senator in the country including those from other very blue states like California. Those are simple facts with no spin.

I don't want a candidate that miscalculates. And I miss Franken.

And can you prove your accusation? Please provide links.

Is well documented.

That’s what you responded to.

But since you made the accusation that she did for political purposes, can you prove that? Please provide links.

"Buell wasn't the only donor to criticized Gillibrand over the issue, underlining the possibility it has hurt her with a segment of the Democratic donor class.

Another major donor told Politico that people were suspicious that Gillibrand's move was a political gambit.

"I thought she was duplicitous,” the donor said. “Once the whole thing happened with Al Franken, it was confirmed 1 billion percent that she’s not to be trusted.""

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/418207-top-dem-donor-slams-gillibrand-over-franken-ouster-stained-her-reputation

Not proof.

Very unhappily I forced myself to vote for her in 2018 because I felt strongly that the Blue Wave had to happen and it was imperative to send a larger, national message by supporting and voting Democratic candidates straight down the ballot.

and have the House elect Maxine Waters as her replacement as Speaker. I reject the idea that the candidate should be a sitting US Senator.

Perhaps other women will emerge between now and then.

And she responded.

NT

She gave a completely reasonable answer to the question and, as you point, most Democrats would have likely said something similar.

Well, it's early yet, Van. We don't even know who all is throwing his or her hat in the ring. But we just went through an historical mid-term election, when record numbers of minorities and women were elected to the House, so this is something the Democrats are focused on...that our representatives should reflect real America...along with other considerations. So I'm sure the Democrats will come together and select a nominee that they, we, think would be best for America at this time in history.

I will vote for the nominee--whoever that is.

Foxtrot outta here..

We remember her leading the charge on Al Franken so she’s only got herself to blame.