Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 01:59 PM Dec 2018

How did someone as dumb and crooked as Trump never go to prison?

Trump has been involved in over 3,500 lawsuits. He won many of them. He settled many out of court. Some were sealed. He settled ,payed fines to get out of some of them. Something does not add up, something does not make sense. What else was Trump doing to get out of Trouble.

What is up with The Trump, Rudy friendship? Rudy was a prosecutor and then the mayor of New York. Rudy put people like Trump in jail. Why is Rudy fanatically trying to protect Trump? Somethings fishy.

Trump is the worst client a lawyer could ever have. He does not listen and yet Trump has never served a day in jail.

Has Trump been a life long snitch, informant? We know he turns on people in a heartbeat. Is Trump a life long rat? Did he give up other people to save his own ass over the years?

64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How did someone as dumb and crooked as Trump never go to prison? (Original Post) shockey80 Dec 2018 OP
$ pecosbob Dec 2018 #1
+1 Takket Dec 2018 #2
+$1,000,000 tinrobot Dec 2018 #8
+1000 jrthin Dec 2018 #21
That and the fact he's white Va Lefty Dec 2018 #26
It's more complicated than that - see my post below EffieBlack Dec 2018 #30
Daddy's $ Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #50
+1!!! Beat me to it! Dustlawyer Dec 2018 #52
You have to actually be interested in prosecuting white collar crime Downtown Hound Dec 2018 #3
Yup. KPN Dec 2018 #13
And yet, White Collar Crime hurts more people more grievously Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2018 #22
Yup. And white collar crime is notoriously hard to prosecute. Adrahil Dec 2018 #36
Of the wealthy, by the wealthy and for the wealthy pecosbob Dec 2018 #4
Bingo dalton99a Dec 2018 #6
Double BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Dec 2018 #9
This country's approach to white collar crime is immoral when contrasted with "street crime." RockRaven Dec 2018 #5
Yes. There's a reason Bernie Madoff is in jsil KPN Dec 2018 #14
rich enough to hire good lawyers TeamPooka Dec 2018 #7
Don't you mean CROOKED lawyers???? bluestarone Dec 2018 #10
rich white guy Kali Dec 2018 #11
Fall guys. He is a mob boss. He has been untouchable like Teflon Don Gotti. Until Mueller. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #12
Good analogy because do you know who took down Gotti? PJMcK Dec 2018 #19
Yes indeed. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #23
All of the above. KPN Dec 2018 #15
Quite possible. He's stayed out of jail by having the money to hire lawyers... brush Dec 2018 #16
A variety of reasons: One, that the commercial real estate business in NY The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #17
I came up in the building trades in Texas pecosbob Dec 2018 #41
I've lost some faith in the IRS. Grasswire2 Dec 2018 #18
He hired some able people....had those NDA's scaring and shutting up everyone. His pops taught UniteFightBack Dec 2018 #20
That is what I find so remarkable - that he didn't consider moonscape Dec 2018 #49
Ask former NY gov Spitzer about consequences of prosecuting evil white collars n/t delisen Dec 2018 #24
That's where Roger Stone came in dhol82 Dec 2018 #34
I would imagine by paying off a long list of DAs and AGs. Mr.Bill Dec 2018 #25
That's what I think. Corgigal Dec 2018 #40
He's Not Black? DallasNE Dec 2018 #27
Are there a lot of millionaires or billionaires in prison anywhere? elocs Dec 2018 #28
Simple - contrary to his own self-view, he wasn't considered important or meaningful enough EffieBlack Dec 2018 #29
Spot on! pandr32 Dec 2018 #33
Great analysis. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #42
Exactly! EffieBlack Dec 2018 #43
It may be a great analysis, but it is a sad one if its true Perseus Dec 2018 #44
I hope that means the SDNY has some integrity to get this done. LiberalFighter Dec 2018 #45
Giuliani was there 30 years ago as a political appointee EffieBlack Dec 2018 #46
I hope they are on it like a sledge hammer. And they go after Giuliani too. LiberalFighter Dec 2018 #51
This is great analysis and one I have not read before MaryMagdaline Dec 2018 #53
This is a really great analysis. Bleacher Creature Dec 2018 #55
i don't think he merely "wasn't seen as worth the effort" unblock Dec 2018 #56
I believe that Trump is stupid enough to pay off people to do what they were going to do anyway ... EffieBlack Dec 2018 #57
also didn't he "rat" some people out at times ? JI7 Dec 2018 #58
Thanks for the clear answer to an important question. ancianita Dec 2018 #63
What the world can learn from EB's analysis: 1.Don't use the U.S. government to launder money. ancianita Dec 2018 #64
CONald says it all! democratisphere Dec 2018 #31
One for the evangelicals: Turbineguy Dec 2018 #32
He was probably an informer, i.e., a rat who bartered his information NCjack Dec 2018 #35
+1, he reminds me of someone who acts like Donny Brosko (sp) uponit7771 Dec 2018 #48
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! SergeStorms Dec 2018 #62
Crooked Lawyers Me. Dec 2018 #37
It's kind of fascinating how he managed to forest gump his way through life.... borgesian Dec 2018 #38
You mistake, shockey80 -- Trump's not dumb HardLineDem Dec 2018 #39
Sadly, he must have been paying government officials off ecstatic Dec 2018 #47
This is one thing I respect China over the USA for ansible Dec 2018 #54
Because when you're rich, even fake rich, you don't go to jail or even get looked at. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 2018 #59
he does have one talent - con artist AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #60
He simply was not important enough to worry about until he ran for President, then it was too late. allgood33 Dec 2018 #61

Dustlawyer

(10,497 posts)
52. +1!!! Beat me to it!
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:36 PM
Dec 2018

When Plutocrats and big corporations commit crimes no one goes to prison unless the screw other rich and powerful people/corporations.

Examples: Wall Street bankers, BP big wigs...

Bernie Maddoff.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
3. You have to actually be interested in prosecuting white collar crime
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:02 PM
Dec 2018

Instead of minority drug offenders. Which our government is not.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,771 posts)
22. And yet, White Collar Crime hurts more people more grievously
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:46 PM
Dec 2018

than other crimes. Murder, of course, excepted in terms of grievousness.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
36. Yup. And white collar crime is notoriously hard to prosecute.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:05 PM
Dec 2018

Not only does it require a great deal of time and money to investigate, but once charged, the perps are usually rich enough to emply an army of lawyers to muddy the waters.

RockRaven

(15,019 posts)
5. This country's approach to white collar crime is immoral when contrasted with "street crime."
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:06 PM
Dec 2018

Not only is white collar crime comparatively-rarely investigated or prosecuted, the penalties are small and the opportunities to buy one's freedom with financial settlements/fines plentiful.

And the problem has only gotten worse post-9/11. Since then the FBI has been disproportionately redirected towards terrorism and away from fraud/financial crimes.

The wealthy make the rules. So they don't want crimes which wealthy people do investigated/prosecuted too stringently.

brush

(53,918 posts)
16. Quite possible. He's stayed out of jail by having the money to hire lawyers...
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:21 PM
Dec 2018

adept at skirting the laws and suing those he cheated in business. He had the money/attorneys to outlast shorted vendors with lawsuits over and over and over. Then his last resort was bankruptcy to get out of paying his debts.

What surprises me is he hasn't been hurt by organized crime which has tentacles deep in the building trades. He must have been making dutiful payoffs to skate as he has. He certainly wasn't shorting them.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,878 posts)
17. A variety of reasons: One, that the commercial real estate business in NY
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:30 PM
Dec 2018

is infamously dirty and mobbed-up, so it was most likely assumed Trump was a crook like everybody else (although it seemed that he was regarded as a bottom-feeder even by that crowd) and nobody cared very much. If he ratted out anyone else it wouldn't have been anyone important to the mob, otherwise he'd be sleepin' wit' da fishes by now. But he was good pals with Rudy Giuliani during the '80s while Rudy was the US Attorney for SDNY, and later the mayor of NYC, so there's that. Why did Rudy protect him, if he did? Money, probably. It's always money.

Grasswire2

(13,571 posts)
18. I've lost some faith in the IRS.
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:34 PM
Dec 2018

Honestly. My former F-I-L was a district director in a very large city, and he was a straight, straight arrow. I always thought of the IRS as competent. How did DJT get away with tax fraud all these years?

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
20. He hired some able people....had those NDA's scaring and shutting up everyone. His pops taught
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:38 PM
Dec 2018

him how it's done. Yes rump has given others up to save himself..that is a FACT during the casino days.

But then this fuck veered out of his lane - and he actually thought he would get away with all this under the microscope of the Federal Govt. He deserves EVERYTHING that he shall get...and his disgusting offspring too.

moonscape

(4,674 posts)
49. That is what I find so remarkable - that he didn't consider
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:22 PM
Dec 2018

the magnifying glass he'd be under even as candidate for President even if he didn't intend to win. The information about him was out there before the election and I was salivating at him getting his due once the election was over and he was back in his gold penthouse.

Since he has been a criminal his entire life, he doesn't have a clue how much he veers from even average morality.

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
34. That's where Roger Stone came in
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 11:44 AM
Dec 2018

There was a great article many years ago that
chronicled his rat fucking even then.
He was the one who set up Spitzer.

Mr.Bill

(24,334 posts)
25. I would imagine by paying off a long list of DAs and AGs.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:36 AM
Dec 2018

The blueprint for doing these payoffs came to light with the Stormy Daniels payoff. Set up a shell company and launder the money through his crooked lawyer, Cohen.

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
40. That's what I think.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:31 PM
Dec 2018

Money, concert and play tickets. Knowing enough dirty info, with help of your friend Pecker, to keep them inline.

New NY DA coming next month. She should be whistle clean. Sucks to part of the Trump family.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
27. He's Not Black?
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:57 AM
Dec 2018

Since you asked.

Also, Mueller brought more big time crooks to justice than Rudy ever did.

elocs

(22,613 posts)
28. Are there a lot of millionaires or billionaires in prison anywhere?
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 11:04 AM
Dec 2018

No. The reason for that is quite evident.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
29. Simple - contrary to his own self-view, he wasn't considered important or meaningful enough
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 11:14 AM
Dec 2018

to go through the trouble of unraveling his mess of a business to put him away.

He was seen as a silly, petty, conman grifter who primarily harmed other grifters like himself. He and his half-assed lawyers and accountants created layer after layer of complicated entities and transactions that made it difficult to sort through. They thought law enforcement stayed away because they were clever criminal masterminds. In truth, they left them alone because they weren't seen as worth the effort necessary to muddle through it all. Law enforcement has limited resources and personnel and using it all up to take down a penny ante crook like Trump wasn't something they cared to do.

His big mistake was running for president and continuing his grifting. If he had straightened up his act, they might have let him slide. But not only did he continue his criminality, he ramped it up. And then he got in their faces, mocking them,
tearing them down, using the power of his office to undermine them. He made it worth their while - in fact their patriotic duty - to devote their resources to going after him now that he represents a clear and present danger to the country and the world.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,878 posts)
42. Great analysis.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:44 PM
Dec 2018

He was always known to be a crook, like most everybody in his business, but he wasn't important enough to bother with, especially considering the difficulty of prosecuting white-collar crime in the first place and the fact that the US Attorney was his pal. Running for and becoming president was the dumbest thing he ever did; if he'd just stayed home and continued his career as a professional grifter he'd have been fine.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
44. It may be a great analysis, but it is a sad one if its true
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:34 PM
Dec 2018

How many people have caused as much pain to other people as trump has? The fact that he is a racist and prevented people from renting his units because of the color of the skin should have been enough to have him pay. If rudy helped in keeping him out of jail, and that may be why he is not charging the con for his services, and lets be clear, rudy is a con as well, then that says a lot about the two and the compromise between them.

Anyway, the law should have gone after him, so many things they could have nailed him for, I cannot find a valid excuse for letting him off the hook, it speaks very badly about the judicial system.

LiberalFighter

(51,137 posts)
45. I hope that means the SDNY has some integrity to get this done.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 07:58 PM
Dec 2018

But I have concerns about this because Giuliani was part of the SDNY.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
46. Giuliani was there 30 years ago as a political appointee
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:01 PM
Dec 2018

That doesn't tell us about anything that's going on there now. And by all accounts, they're all over this.

Bleacher Creature

(11,258 posts)
55. This is a really great analysis.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:41 PM
Dec 2018

You don't see people who are truly recognized as major players in the real estate market putting their names on fake universities, clothing, steaks, wines, etc. There have always been rumors that he constantly overstates his true wealth, and I would guess that a vast majority of his current net worth is tied into marketing and licensing his name. And as you pointed out, the size of his actual real estate portfolio was likely too small to warrant spending actual resources investigating him -- at least until now.

unblock

(52,352 posts)
56. i don't think he merely "wasn't seen as worth the effort"
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:46 PM
Dec 2018

i think he paid for certain key people to reach that conclusion.


of course, they might have reached that conclusion regardless....

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
57. I believe that Trump is stupid enough to pay off people to do what they were going to do anyway ...
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:49 PM
Dec 2018

ancianita

(36,146 posts)
64. What the world can learn from EB's analysis: 1.Don't use the U.S. government to launder money.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 11:53 AM
Dec 2018

2. Launder at your own criminal risk through private developers, mobsters, casinos' sellout owners. But when you aspire to involve national organizations -- NRA operatives; bankster operatives of Russia, Germany, Cyprus -- you'll get dragged into the international spotlight as criminals.

3. Be warned, mob capitalists. The FBI will continue to globalize criminal justice against you. Back off and act accordingly.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
35. He was probably an informer, i.e., a rat who bartered his information
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:04 PM
Dec 2018

on fellow crooks for having his own crimes ignored.

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
62. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 05:02 AM
Dec 2018

We have a winner! Donald did exactly what he's accusing Cohen of. He was, is, a rat. He always had information on other double dealing New York/New Jersey con-men, and when he got into a jamb he couldn't get himself out of any other way, he ratted them out. Bigly. There are a lot of people in the area that would love their chance to return the favor, and with Letitia James coming his way in the coming year they may very well get their chances. I hope everyone he's ever screwed over in his entire life rats the mother fucker out and he dies in prison. A fitting end to such a sack of shit.

borgesian

(52 posts)
38. It's kind of fascinating how he managed to forest gump his way through life....
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 12:25 PM
Dec 2018

...all the way to the presidency.

HardLineDem

(26 posts)
39. You mistake, shockey80 -- Trump's not dumb
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:05 PM
Dec 2018

Trump's crooked, a liar, and a reptile, but he's very skilled in using the means available to the rich -- and especially, to people in real estate development -- to get richer and to avoid responsibility for their misdeeds. He has always used the shield of the law and of lawyers in business, and thinks therefore that there is no law he cannot evade.

ecstatic

(32,737 posts)
47. Sadly, he must have been paying government officials off
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:15 PM
Dec 2018

At first I assumed he somehow slipped through the cracks or that his "commit crimes in plain sight" strategy worked brilliantly for him... But now that you bring it up, it just doesn't seem possible. He was involved in way too much shit. In and out of court, etc.

 

ansible

(1,718 posts)
54. This is one thing I respect China over the USA for
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:41 PM
Dec 2018

A billionaire would NEVER be imprisoned here no matter how much of a piece of shit he is, while the chinese have no qualms executing one.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/11399732/China-executes-Ferrari-loving-billionaire-gangster.html




BlueTsunami2018

(3,504 posts)
59. Because when you're rich, even fake rich, you don't go to jail or even get looked at.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 09:34 PM
Dec 2018

Unless you blatantly kill someone or rob other rich people you’re pretty much above the law.

There are separate justice systems.

AlexSFCA

(6,139 posts)
60. he does have one talent - con artist
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:28 PM
Dec 2018

possibly the greatest con artist we’ve ever seen. It seems to be a family craft.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How did someone as dumb a...