General Discussion

Kablooie

(18,634 posts) Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:31 AM Dec 2018

Is something going on between Flynn and Trump?

These are just my thoughts and are probably nothing but some things seem strange.

Flynn was a great help to Mueller so Mueller asked for a very light sentence.
Then Flynn suddenly turns on the FBI and says they entrapped him.
Trump wishes Flynn, who turned on him, well and anticipates hearing something interesting from him today.
Trump is also now trying to send the guy Flynn tried to kidnap to Trukey, back to Turkey.

Did Trump get to Flynn with an offer of pardon and help him continue his previous criminal efforts?
Will Flynn testimony be nullified if Trump gives him a full pardon?
Flynn could then be free to return to his previous, probably lucrative, endeavors with immunity from prosecution and Mueller loses his star witness against Trump.

I'm sure Mueller has anticipated anything like this and has prevented it but something still smells fishy.

13 replies

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Highlight:

Is something going on between Flynn and Trump? (Original Post) Kablooie Dec 2018 OP

I think both Flynn and Manafort might be pardoned AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #1

Flynn apparently already spilled the beans, so.... Adrahil Dec 2018 #11

Please elaborate - "Will Flynn testimony be nullified if Trump gives him a full pardon?" FreepFryer Dec 2018 #2

If Flynn is pardoned he couldn't be compelled to testify. Kablooie Dec 2018 #3

What makes you believe he could not be compelled to testify? jberryhill Dec 2018 #4

That's not the case. A pardon is not an exoneration of guilt & Flynn could not plead the 5th if so. FreepFryer Dec 2018 #5

Flynn would have provided sworn affidavits in his plea deal. Takket Dec 2018 #6

You have that almost entirely wrong leftynyc Dec 2018 #12

Mueller had to offer Flynn a deal to compete with the pardon promised him by Trump? kentuck Dec 2018 #7

The tweet from this morning was weird, this is true. blogslut Dec 2018 #8

Flynn's "they didn't tell me it was illegal" may have been Flynn being flakey Maeve Dec 2018 #9

But it wasn't Flynn PJMcK Dec 2018 #13

Co-operation or not Flynn should be kacekwl Dec 2018 #10

AlexSFCA

(6,139 posts)

1. I think both Flynn and Manafort might be pardoned

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:34 AM

Dec 2018

Manafort in particular is a very important asset to putin.

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)

11. Flynn apparently already spilled the beans, so....

Reply to AlexSFCA (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 11:19 AM

Dec 2018

I guess he might get Flynn to back out of testifying?

But I heard last night that Flynn is probably chargeable as an unregistered agent for Turkey.... which is not in his deal, and he han't been charged. Mueller might be holding that back, just in case. And if he refuses to testify, he could be subpoenaed.

Manafort? I guess Trump could get him out of jail for a while, but Manafort is very, very liable under State laws.

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)

2. Please elaborate - "Will Flynn testimony be nullified if Trump gives him a full pardon?"

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:34 AM

Dec 2018

I don’t understand the question.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)

3. If Flynn is pardoned he couldn't be compelled to testify.

Reply to FreepFryer (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:39 AM

Dec 2018

Mueller would have no power over him.
I'm sure his previous testimony would hold some weight but probably not as much as if he were available to testify in person. Also if Mueller had no way too compel him he might publically deny his previous testimony and dilute it's value even more.

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)

4. What makes you believe he could not be compelled to testify?

Reply to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:42 AM

Dec 2018

In fact, he can't refuse to testify on 5th Amendment grounds.

A pardon is not a general excuse from any and all legal obligations.

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)

5. That's not the case. A pardon is not an exoneration of guilt & Flynn could not plead the 5th if so.

Reply to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:44 AM

Dec 2018

Burdick v United States discussion on Quora.

In the early 1900s, there was an investigation about government leaks to George Burdick, the editor of the New York Tribune. Burdick refused to testify as to his source, relying on the Fifth Amendment.

In response, President Wilson pardoned Burdick. The pardon was issued specifically for the purpose of forcing Burdick to testify. But Burdick refused to accept the pardon and continued to refuse to testify. Burdick was held in contempt and put in custody.

The case went up to the Supreme Court which held that Burdick had the right to reject the pardon. Because Burdick had the right to reject the pardon, he was not actually pardoned, and therefore still had the right to plead the Fifth.

Had Burdick accepted the pardon though, then the Fifth Amendment would no longer apply as there would be no danger of self-incrimination.

Burdick v. United States 236 U.S. 79 (1915)
https://www.quora.com/Would-a-full-presidential-pardon-void-an-individuals-5th-amendment-protection-from-self-incrimination-on-actions-cover-by-the-pardon

Takket

(21,577 posts)

6. Flynn would have provided sworn affidavits in his plea deal.

Reply to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:48 AM

Dec 2018

Which is basically his testimony. Mueller doesn’t need him to testify. Already has all he needs. Pardon does nothing for drumpf now.

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)

12. You have that almost entirely wrong

Reply to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 11:25 AM

Dec 2018

Not only could he be compelled to testify via subpoena, he would also lose his 5th amendment rights as the pardon would protect him from incriminating himself. If he publicly denies his former testimony, which was given under oath, he can further be charged with MORE perjury.

kentuck

(111,103 posts)

7. Mueller had to offer Flynn a deal to compete with the pardon promised him by Trump?

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:49 AM

Dec 2018

Also, at the time he gave the deal to Flynn, he did not know there were others that would be willing to make a deal. He needed Flynn to tell all that he knew.

blogslut

(38,002 posts)

8. The tweet from this morning was weird, this is true.

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:49 AM

Dec 2018

As for the thing about the administration's effort to extradite Gulen to Turkey, that may have more to do with appeasing Erdogan so he'll stop talking about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)

9. Flynn's "they didn't tell me it was illegal" may have been Flynn being flakey

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:52 AM

Dec 2018

Which he has been for some time--the whole dive into the conspiracy ocean and 'lock her up' nonsense says the little ball keeps slipping out of the hole now and again and needs to be tapped back in.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)

13. But it wasn't Flynn

Reply to Maeve (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 12:10 PM

Dec 2018

It was his lawyers. They had to know that accusing the FBI was a bad idea.

kacekwl

(7,017 posts)

10. Co-operation or not Flynn should be

Reply to Kablooie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 11:12 AM

Dec 2018

procecutied fully for treason and any other crime they can . What about the so called military code of ethics ? How the he'll is this shit going to stop if these traitors for money keep getting away with it ? Hanging in the Capital Mall is fine with me.

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