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They're delaying sentencing per MSNBC. (Original Post) The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 OP
He needs more time to sing. dalton99a Dec 2018 #1
The judge must think he's got a few more songs in his repertoire. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #2
Yep. Another merry Christmas dalton99a Dec 2018 #4
Here we come a-caroling... brooklynite Dec 2018 #7
'Merry Christmas To You' enid602 Dec 2018 #44
Don't forget that the judge has read the un-redacted filings. Zoonart Dec 2018 #5
+1 dalton99a Dec 2018 #10
Sorry, but you're gonna have to do better, Mike BeyondGeography Dec 2018 #3
The million pound shithammer was coming down gratuitous Dec 2018 #6
They might have been worried about an upward departure from The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #18
No matter what country club prison you're facing... eleny Dec 2018 #14
Well played, Judge Emmet Sullivan njhoneybadger Dec 2018 #8
Here's what I find confusing. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #11
The judge saw everything in the redacted document we saw eleny Dec 2018 #16
That may be.... Nevilledog Dec 2018 #22
Maybe the prosecution trusts Flynn more than this judge does eleny Dec 2018 #27
I trust that Mueller has explored everything Flynn is willing to give up. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #32
Then the redactions must be white hot nt eleny Dec 2018 #36
I am wondering what the judge's motive is. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #17
You just H2O Man Dec 2018 #23
But he could have imposed a sentence today of more time The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #25
I think that H2O Man Dec 2018 #31
Trump could pardon Flynn right now. Pronouncement of sentence not required. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #33
Yes, of course. H2O Man Dec 2018 #34
Gotta stop using logic, sir. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #35
Ha! Right! H2O Man Dec 2018 #40
He's already plead guilty and can't appeal from that The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #42
And if you are correct the judge should have urged Flynn to request a mitigation hearing. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #24
So far we are getting all this information second-hand from media reports. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #26
That has always been a pet peeve of mine. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #28
Hasn't Mueller said that Flynn is still cooperating? eleny Dec 2018 #30
But if Flynn being out of custody was central to his continued cooperation Nevilledog Dec 2018 #37
I've been thinking about that as a handshake between Mueller and Flynn eleny Dec 2018 #38
I'm not sure. Nevilledog Dec 2018 #39
Then we sit and wait which is so hard eleny Dec 2018 #41
That's exacrly what talkig heads are saying tonight eleny Dec 2018 #45
Who's saying what and where? Nevilledog Dec 2018 #46
On Lawrence O'Donnell's program tonight... eleny Dec 2018 #47
Befuddled as well... Nevermypresident Dec 2018 #29
I'd love to see Trump's face right now C_U_L8R Dec 2018 #12
I don't want to see Trump's ugly orange face ever, but I get your point. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #13
Yes, no. C_U_L8R Dec 2018 #15
Looks like Flynn's lawyers kind of screwed the pooch on this one. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #19
Shit, meet fan. n/t Xolodno Dec 2018 #20
The judge to the Con (my interpretation) malaise Dec 2018 #21
I don't know about you guys but I think it's good news FakeNoose Dec 2018 #43

enid602

(8,620 posts)
44. 'Merry Christmas To You'
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 07:44 PM
Dec 2018

‘tRump’s nuts roasting on an open fire . . .Jack Fost nipping on his ass . . .

Zoonart

(11,869 posts)
5. Don't forget that the judge has read the un-redacted filings.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 01:56 PM
Dec 2018

My guess is that's where the "treason" talk springs from.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
6. The million pound shithammer was coming down
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 01:56 PM
Dec 2018

Flynn and his lawyer must have thought that it's best to make a total disclosure rather than risk what a clearly hostile judge was about to do to Flynn.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
9. They might have been worried about an upward departure from
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:00 PM
Dec 2018

the sentencing guidelines, which the judge could have done. Part of the plea deal was an agreement not to appeal from whatever the sentence was. There will be a status hearing in 90 days. Trump still talks nice about Flynn; is Flynn angling for a pardon?

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

eleny

(46,166 posts)
14. No matter what country club prison you're facing...
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:05 PM
Dec 2018

It has to be a frightening proposition when your sentencing judge talked about yourself and treason in the same sentence. Who knows what can happen to you in there.

It's best that Flynn sing his guts out before the next sentencing hearing.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
11. Here's what I find confusing.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:03 PM
Dec 2018

If Flynn has more info it should be the Prosecution that is asking for the delay..... not a delay pushed by the judge. Who says the Prosecution is interested in anything else from Flynn?. I never had a cooperating client sentenced BEFORE the prosecution was done with them. The judge has zero authority to make the Prosecution continue to use Flynn in any capacity.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
16. The judge saw everything in the redacted document we saw
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:10 PM
Dec 2018

So I think the judge used his sentencing authority to "urge" Flynn to cooperate to the extent that he spills all his guts and then come back for sentencing.

Just my lay person's opinion. But that's how it looks to me. He doesn't want to let Flynn walk away until Mueller says they're exhausted getting information from him.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
22. That may be....
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:15 PM
Dec 2018

But the judge can't force the Prosecution to spend one more second with Flynn. If Flynn was still in the process of actively helping the Prosecution in new areas of investigation the Prosecution would have requested a delay.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
27. Maybe the prosecution trusts Flynn more than this judge does
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:24 PM
Dec 2018

Thanks for the legal details. Given those, it looks like the judge is pushing Flynn to be more than eager to seek out the Special Counsel and spill every damn thing he knows. No pulling teeth. No please and thank you. Just a complete and voluntary purging of his guts.

And I believe the tiny straw that pushed this judge over the edge was the nonsense about Flynn not knowing it was a crime to lie to the FBI. How aggravating was that? Cohen and now Flynn working every dumb angle at this point is insulting to the courts.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
32. I trust that Mueller has explored everything Flynn is willing to give up.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:34 PM
Dec 2018

In the end, Flynn could try and give more info but the prosecution has zero legal responsibility to give any additional benefit to Flynn. If I was Flynn's attorney I'd be very uncomfortable with advising my client to present new info to Mueller. That would undoubtedly backfire because Mueller could then argue that Flynn had not been completely cooperative during all his interviews prior to the original sentencing date.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
17. I am wondering what the judge's motive is.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:10 PM
Dec 2018

Obviously he was outraged at what Flynn actually did, and I'll bet he didn't think Flynn deserved the prosecution's sweet deal. Clearly, he was also pissed off at Flynn's lawyers' suggestion that the FBI entrapped or misled him. The judge could have done an upward departure from the guidelines today, though. I don't know what the 90-day extension is supposed to do if Flynn has already sung all his songs.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
23. You just
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:15 PM
Dec 2018

identified the judge's motive. It appears that he believes Flynn deserves more consequences than the prosecution is asking for,

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
25. But he could have imposed a sentence today of more time
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:19 PM
Dec 2018

than the sentencing guidelines recommends, on the basis of the severity of the crime. What I don't get is why he delayed sentencing, unless there was something in the redacted material that suggested to the judge that Flynn has more information that can be squeezed out of him.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
31. I think that
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:34 PM
Dec 2018

he doesn't want either of two things to happen: first, that Flynn's legal team appeals and has the verdict overturned, or second, that Trump uses this as an excuse to pardon Flynn, thus vacating the conviction. I think it is better that he calls their bluff.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
34. Yes, of course.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:42 PM
Dec 2018

If he did, it would be an obvious attempt to obstruct justice before the case is settled. Thus, he would be far, far, far more likely to do so if the judge sentenced him today. The judge's ruling today keeps open the central question of why Flynn lied.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
35. Gotta stop using logic, sir.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:44 PM
Dec 2018

Since when has trump shown any restraint in his ongoing attempts to obstruct?. Ha!

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
40. Ha! Right!
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:56 PM
Dec 2018

I'm mildly surprised that he hasn't attempted to pardon himself. The only reason he hasn't pardoned guys like Flynn and Manafort is because of what his legal team, a couple administration officials, and republican Senators have told him the consequences would be bad, very bad, for him.

Mr. Mueller knows why Flynn lied. He hasn't released that yet, because it is linked to other campaign/transition activities. In that context, it is a good thing the judge is offering Flynn the opportunity to withdraw his plea, and go to trial.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
42. He's already plead guilty and can't appeal from that
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:25 PM
Dec 2018

and Tiny could pardon him at any time. So I think the judge knows he can be squeezed for more cooperation.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
24. And if you are correct the judge should have urged Flynn to request a mitigation hearing.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:19 PM
Dec 2018

The judge could certainly broadcast his intent to jail Flynn and suggest he might want to provide the court with mitigating evidence to change its mind. That's a completely different animal than the court trying to interfere in the prosecutor's position on additional cooperation. I'm befuddled.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
26. So far we are getting all this information second-hand from media reports.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:23 PM
Dec 2018

Maybe something like that did happen, but it hasn't been reported either because the reporters emailing reports from the courtroom aren't familiar with those procedures, or because something has been agreed to in writing which will come out later. I expect a transcript will become available before long.

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
28. That has always been a pet peeve of mine.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:26 PM
Dec 2018

Reporters not versed in criminal procedure reporting about criminal procedure.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
30. Hasn't Mueller said that Flynn is still cooperating?
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:30 PM
Dec 2018

I thought I read or heard that in recent days when we saw Mueller's redacted document.

Flynn (and most recently Cohen) have been acting like wise guys trying every dumb angle to get off with no jail time. Having read the entire Mueller document the judge is completely disgusted and doesn't trust Flynn or his lawyers. He seems to expect a voluntary spilling of the guts prior to sentencing as proof of Fynn's sincerity. That's not too much to ask of someone who sold out his country, eh?

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
37. But if Flynn being out of custody was central to his continued cooperation
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:46 PM
Dec 2018

the Prosecution would have asked for a continuance. Also, continued cooperation could just be an agreement to testify in the future about the information he's already provided.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
38. I've been thinking about that as a handshake between Mueller and Flynn
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:53 PM
Dec 2018

There's the agreement that Flynn will continue to cooperate as needed. So what's at the heart of the judge's action today?

Nevilledog

(51,118 posts)
39. I'm not sure.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:55 PM
Dec 2018

I find it confusing. Sounds to me like judge wants more info about why this plea is appropriate, and that it might be too lenient.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
41. Then we sit and wait which is so hard
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:58 PM
Dec 2018

Perhaps harder for you than me since you're versed where I'm not.

Now I wonder who will act first, Flynn or Mueller, to move all this forward.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
45. That's exacrly what talkig heads are saying tonight
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 11:34 PM
Dec 2018

Btw, I hope you post an OP with your thoughts on all this now that more details have been revealed about what was said in the courtroom today.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
47. On Lawrence O'Donnell's program tonight...
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 12:32 AM
Dec 2018

They were discussing the judge. Like you, they speculated that the "judge wants more info about why this plea is appropriate, and that it might be too lenient".

Nevermypresident

(781 posts)
29. Befuddled as well...
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:28 PM
Dec 2018

Why did prosecutors bring forth sentencing if more cooperation was anticipated from Flynn?

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
13. I don't want to see Trump's ugly orange face ever, but I get your point.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:05 PM
Dec 2018

He'll figure out some demented spin to put on the whole thing.

FakeNoose

(32,644 posts)
43. I don't know about you guys but I think it's good news
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:44 PM
Dec 2018

They're really putting the screws to Cheeto and all the other guilty parties in Washington.
Let them have a "Merry Christmas" now. NOT!!!

Thank you Judge Grinch!

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