First of all Trump did not have the votes in the house until he pushed them against a wall and twisted arms. Secondly, it has nothing to do with democrats holding or republicans winning... they have a majority in the House for a couple more weeks so saying democrats didn't "hold" when every single one of them voted against it is just stupid. The situation in the senate is completely different where they need 60 votes.

Pelosi claimed he didn't have the votes...

Want to bet on 5he Senate and if McTurtle changes the rules?

You don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about.

...clueless. I am not prepared to go thru another DU season of posters whinging that Dems are "caving," "spelunking," "folding" and similar epithets.

Spineless is used a lot, makes me cringe every time I hear it.

They can pass the bill without a single Dem vote. There would be no "line" to hold.

You don't make threats or issue ultimatums if you don't have the muscle to back it up. Obama learned that with his redline on Syria.

All Pelosi did was unite the House GOP. The only thing they all agree on is a desire to make her look foolish.

they knew it has no chance passing in the Senate. So they look good to their base.

She let her mouth write checks her fists couldn't cash during her first standoff with Trump. It won't mean much in the long run, but in the short term she looks foolish and she gave the House GOP the extra little motivation they needed to come together. Now instead of a Trump shutdown, it's a Senate shutdown.

She doesn't "look foolish". And the bill didn't pass because of 2 lines she said in Trump's media ambush in the white house during which she completely owned him. The bill passed for the same reason Trump reversed field overnight. Limbaugh, Coulter, and the right wing media went off the rails and Trump watched them all night trash him for being too weak to stand by his ridiculous campaign promises. The House GOP found themselves in the box where anyone who didn't toe the party line would be completely trashed by the fox news/talk radio machine not to mention president make 10 stupid misspelled tweets before half the country wakes up every morning... If you think that segment of the media is going to change their tune because Nancy Pelosi is more reserved or polite, then you are mistaken. And blaming her for that ignorant backlash is no different than blaming Hillary for the false "baggage" that was attributed to her incessantly.

No, it probably would have passed anyway, given Fox's ownership of the party. But her remarks certainly didn't hurt Ryan's ability to whip the votes. It was an unforced error. And, as I pointed out below, the GOP narrative tomorrow will be "government shutdown because of Democratic filibuster."

No one's blaming her for the media. I'm blaming her for saying something stupid that any politician with the vast skills and experience that some DUers never fail to remind us she possesses should have been careful about saying.

Perception is reality in politics. By making a truly brash prediction (that Trump couldn’t win a simple majority in a chamber his own party controls), Pelosi was putting her reputation on the line. Had she been proven right, she would have appeared a genius; as it is, she looks foolish. Anyone thinking she won’t come away with egg on her face, and resulting diminished authority, is dreaming.

government down" he owns it.

He didn't have the votes - not even close - until tonight and only after the shitstorm disaster that occurred today that gave Trump and Ryan some leverage to twist arms in the last couple of hours.

She forced Trump's and the GOP's hands, made them use up every chit and put themselves out on front street by having to show their hands and did so without a single defection in her caucus.

You have completely misread Pelosi and the situation.

Your eagerness to twist this GOP debacle into a smear of Nancy Pelosi is noted ...

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make...

1. an action such as a prolonged speech that obstructs progress in a legislative assembly while not technically contravening the required procedures.

Azathoth

9. Pelosi, frankly, shouldn't have shot her mouth off

As for the Senate, Dems will still be in the MINORITY for the next two years. Schumer can hold the line all he wants -- and he will -- but there will be times you will not like the results. Like tonight.

Democrats. Are. Not. Folding.

Cause if you can’t, then your OP is bullshit.

Sid

there was any danger that we were going to cave on this issue so I'd be stunned if we did so.

but of course we've caved on others. Of course we've made bad deals in "good faith" with the GOP in the past, entirely foolishly, and of course we've cast other votes with the GOP under the threat that if we don't they'll push for something even worse.

I think its entirely reasonable to have a discussion about what we've done as a party previously, and what we should or should not do. Its never alright to just accept whatever our politicians do and then to defend that position no matter what it is. They are our representatives and should hear from us when we aren't satisfied with their performance.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211574404