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George II

(67,782 posts)
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 06:06 PM Dec 2018

Seems the "Green New Deal" isn't such a new idea, nor revolutionary.

This is an article originally from the Huffington Post (posted on Grist) The "Green New Deal" has been around since at least 2007, maybe earlier. This is a good read.

https://grist.org/article/whats-the-green-new-deal-the-surprising-origins-behind-a-progressive-rallying-cry/

What’s the ‘Green New Deal’? The surprising origins behind a progressive rallying cry.

The man who popularized the phrase that left-leaning Democrats now use to describe a vision for a radical government spending plan to combat climate change is a self-described centrist “free-market guy” with a New York Times column.

It was Thomas Friedman who in 2007 started calling for a “Green New Deal” to end fossil fuel subsidies, tax carbon dioxide emissions, and create lasting incentives for wind and solar energy. At the dawn of the global financial crisis, the “New Deal” concept that Franklin D. Roosevelt coined 76 years earlier to describe the labor reforms and historic spending on infrastructure and armaments that pulled the United States out of the Great Depression proved attractive.

Friedman’s ideas made it into the mainstream the following year when presidential candidate Barack Obama added a Green New Deal to his platform. In 2009, the United Nations drafted a report calling for a Global Green New Deal to focus government stimulus on renewable energy projects. A month later, Democrats’ landmark cap-and-trade bill — meant to set up a market where companies could buy and sell pollution permits and take a conservative first step toward limiting carbon dioxide emissions — passed in the House with the promise of spurring $150 billion in clean energy investments and creating 1.7 million good-paying jobs.

(more....)

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Seems the "Green New Deal" isn't such a new idea, nor revolutionary. (Original Post) George II Dec 2018 OP
yea.. none of those ideas are new nini Dec 2018 #1
None of the proposals in this plan are original Gothmog Dec 2018 #25
Been part of the Dem platform for years, just as many of the ideas of a certain senator... brush Dec 2018 #26
The New Deal isn't new either, but many of us could use one. DemocracyMouse Dec 2018 #83
President Obama's Green New Deal as well. PhrankT Dec 2018 #2
K&R betsuni Dec 2018 #3
Thank You, George.. for the origins of The New Green Cha Dec 2018 #4
Actually someone sent me that article earlier today. Figured we were due a little dose of reality. George II Dec 2018 #5
Definitely need a dose of reality around here. Cha Dec 2018 #6
Where is the problem? DemocracyMouse Dec 2018 #86
I'm grateful the OP posted Cha Dec 2018 #89
The history is helpful, but it was framed negatively. DemocracyMouse Dec 2018 #91
I seem to recall VP Al Gore speaking up about climate change mcar Dec 2018 #7
Yes indeed, and Jimmy Carter was ahead of the curve, too. As President.... George II Dec 2018 #8
Forgot about Carter's good work mcar Dec 2018 #9
+1 betsuni Dec 2018 #14
A lot of it is cribbed from Martin O'Malley's plans from his last run for the WH. FSogol Dec 2018 #10
That's all from 2016, but Obama was all over it seven years earlier in 2009. George II Dec 2018 #11
Yeah, like clean coal. progressoid Dec 2018 #19
WTF? George II Dec 2018 #23
I thought we were talking about green energy and stuff re: Obama progressoid Dec 2018 #74
Henry David Thoreau was pushing green thinking over a century ago... DemocracyMouse Dec 2018 #90
Lol Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #35
Is snark the only thing you have to offer, as if there were no green initiatives... brush Dec 2018 #52
Yeah, I guess in the day of trump it's okay to take shots at President Obama. Such is life. George II Dec 2018 #75
Sorry, I just get the memo. progressoid Dec 2018 #97
Mentioning clean coal and Obama is a pot shot? Autumn Dec 2018 #102
Apparently it is. progressoid Dec 2018 #107
You know you're though the looking glass when mentioning what a Dem Autumn Dec 2018 #109
Just taking cues from the OP. progressoid Dec 2018 #106
Is that all ya got? That's the only "insult" Cha Dec 2018 #64
Any chance he will try again? question everything Dec 2018 #12
Don't know. This appears to be the age of the amateur and rhetoric FSogol Dec 2018 #20
Not even a little bit. ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #13
Oh snap! sheshe2 Dec 2018 #15
PS sheshe2 Dec 2018 #16
You too! ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #27
I also don't see where Castor outright dismissed it. WeekiWater Dec 2018 #17
It's the usual propaganda meant to divide us. herding cats Dec 2018 #18
That's my take as well. WeekiWater Dec 2018 #21
+1 betsuni Dec 2018 #22
If not divide us, dilute the opposition. We have to make sure it doesn't work this time around. George II Dec 2018 #24
AOS IS us. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2018 #87
I'm going to be very clear here. herding cats Dec 2018 #93
Duh! Who ever thought it was new? KPN Dec 2018 #28
Some are acting like they just came up with the idea recently. George II Dec 2018 #30
The young are taking responsibility, since they will actually have to live in that hellish world. irresistable Dec 2018 #34
No they're actually not melman Dec 2018 #37
Exactly. Some are making shit up. nt. Mariana Dec 2018 #60
Oh? Or is it more like some are acting like they assume some are acting like they just came up KPN Dec 2018 #41
Links please? nt. Mariana Dec 2018 #61
No one ever thought it was something new. Remember, rain is wet. Autumn Dec 2018 #31
Nobody melman Dec 2018 #36
BINGO! KPN Dec 2018 #40
And it's so funny that the OP thinks this is some big 'aha!' or something melman Dec 2018 #51
this thread confirms the need for a renewed, energetic focus, which AOC brings to the table bigtree Dec 2018 #38
You are absolutely right. In a way, behaviorally, it reminds me of 45s stance on the Wall. KPN Dec 2018 #42
Representative-elect Cortez wasn't even mentioned in the OP. George II Dec 2018 #44
clever. bigtree Dec 2018 #46
.. George II Dec 2018 #47
Well aren't you the coy one. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2018 #88
A special committee dedicated to a Green New Deal with subpoena power would be a good thing. irresistable Dec 2018 #29
This was Hillary's platform in 2016. yardwork Dec 2018 #32
just one more reason why we should take action now irresistable Dec 2018 #33
So why the obvious put down of young folks bringing a renewed focus on it? KPN Dec 2018 #43
??? Where have I put down young folks? yardwork Dec 2018 #56
Crickets. Cha Dec 2018 #65
Chirp, chirp, chirp. KPN Dec 2018 #68
uh huh. Cha Dec 2018 #84
Did I say you? No, I didn't. KPN Dec 2018 #67
"So why the obvious put down..." yardwork Dec 2018 #99
There you go again. Did I say you? KPN Dec 2018 #100
I'm not the OP. You seem really confused. yardwork Dec 2018 #101
I'll answer that with another question then. KPN Dec 2018 #105
I was responding to the OP, not you. yardwork Dec 2018 #110
Oh brother. KPN Dec 2018 #111
Trying hard to see what its actual legislative goals were. ucrdem Dec 2018 #39
Oh, so you approve of the catchy meme, just not their use of it? KPN Dec 2018 #45
"Keep up or step aside" ucrdem Dec 2018 #70
Yes. It was never a real program but a platform to attack Democrats from. Hortensis Dec 2018 #62
Exactly, not unlike the Wall Street meme ucrdem Dec 2018 #66
I am so glad that President Obama pushed for these programs Gothmog Dec 2018 #48
cap-and-trade (House passed) died in the Democratic-controlled Senate bigtree Dec 2018 #50
You need 60 votes in Senate Gothmog Dec 2018 #63
that's not the point bigtree Dec 2018 #72
What was the point of attempting to blame the "Democratic-controlled" Senate for betsuni Dec 2018 #77
missed the point completely bigtree Dec 2018 #78
Jump in? My first comment was #3. I've been following this thread. betsuni Dec 2018 #79
you must be talking to yourself in the post directed at me, the one that wasn't directed to you bigtree Dec 2018 #80
Wut. betsuni Dec 2018 #81
blocked bigtree Dec 2018 #82
Lucky You, betsuni! Cha Dec 2018 #85
And it's my first time! Nobody has ever wanted to block me before. betsuni Dec 2018 #95
lol.. well you did Cha Dec 2018 #96
He did. I agree. So why can't AOC and KPN Dec 2018 #69
These are not new programs and she should give President Obama credit for using his ideas Gothmog Dec 2018 #71
This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Dec 2018 #73
Ha! Cha Dec 2018 #94
Okay, so again, who said they were new? I didn't hear that from KPN Dec 2018 #98
But one deserving of support? oberliner Dec 2018 #49
That's a good question melman Dec 2018 #54
Of course it does, and Democrats have been supporting this for decades. Remember Al Gore? George II Dec 2018 #55
Actually Nixon was pro-environment before Gore Quixote1818 Dec 2018 #59
No one compares to Al Gore on this issue. Speaking R B Garr Dec 2018 #103
But the same resource industry billionaires, guillaumeb Dec 2018 #53
Obamacare wasn't original either. Few things are. Quixote1818 Dec 2018 #57
Nobody said it was.. but it got passed and Cha Dec 2018 #58
Politicians aren't looking for copyrights... HopeAgain Dec 2018 #76
MOST politicians aren't looking for copyrights. George II Dec 2018 #92
K&R! Great info. Thanks to Friedman and thanks to you R B Garr Dec 2018 #104
Well it's not like FDR invented Keynesian economics Bucky Dec 2018 #108

brush

(53,778 posts)
26. Been part of the Dem platform for years, just as many of the ideas of a certain senator...
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 12:39 PM
Dec 2018

from a small state have been.

Obama, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter with his solar cells on the WH roof (that Reagan had torn out when he took his stolen office), Dems have been at the fore of green ideas always.

More study needed by those who think no one had thought of this before.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
83. The New Deal isn't new either, but many of us could use one.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:07 AM
Dec 2018

So debating the “newness” is rather petty and bizarre. Creating a hybrid concept (green + new deal) is relatively new (since Friedman’s article), but that’s really a non-issue too.

We have a planet to save and the phrase is a good one and it’s finally getting some traction in the press. Friends... eyes on the prize. Save our holy planet.

 

PhrankT

(113 posts)
2. President Obama's Green New Deal as well.
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 06:18 PM
Dec 2018

Friedman’s ideas made it into the mainstream the following year when presidential candidate Barack Obama added a Green New Deal to his platform.
In 2009,
the United Nations drafted a report calling for a Global Green New Deal to focus government stimulus on renewable energy projects.

A month later, Democrats’ landmark cap-and-trade bill — meant to set up a market where companies could buy and sell pollution permits and take a conservative first step toward limiting carbon dioxide emissions — passed in the House with the promise of spurring $150 billion in clean energy investments and creating 1.7 million good-paying jobs.

But, by 2010, austerity politics hit.
The cap-and-trade bill, known as the American Clean Energy and Security Act, died in the Senate.



In Britain, the Labor Party, acting on a proposal that a team of economists calling themselves the Green New Deal Group drafted, established a government-run green investment bank to bolster renewable energy — only for the conservative Tories to sweep into office months later and begin the process of privatizing the nascent institution.

Balanced budgets and deficit hysteria became the dogma of governments across the developed world.
Talk of a Green New Deal withered on the vine.



Great Post
It is really interesting to read the history of the Green New Deal, the attempts by Democrats in the US as well as the Labor Party in UK to bring about such positive green deals, only to be stopped, predictably, by the conservative Torries in UK and the Republicans in the US Senate.

George II

(67,782 posts)
5. Actually someone sent me that article earlier today. Figured we were due a little dose of reality.
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 08:39 PM
Dec 2018

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
86. Where is the problem?
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:22 AM
Dec 2018

People have had good ideas and bad ideas for thousands of years. Important ideas, and social movements that bring those ideas to fruition, take time to snowball.

GIVEN that most people are ignoring global warming to focus almost entirely on The Trump Show, shoukdn’t we be relieved that this phrase is getting some traction?

Many have complained over the years that the Republicans are fiends at meme generation – especially with talk radio to fan the flames. Now we have a good solid phrase (in 3 syllables!) to address two imoortant issues. It’s combustive. Help develop it I say. Why whine about who said what when?

Eyes on the prize. Green New Deal is going on my bumper because “Various committees and green-oriented white papers and so and so said whatever first” just has no carrying power.

mcar

(42,333 posts)
7. I seem to recall VP Al Gore speaking up about climate change
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 08:47 PM
Dec 2018

once upon a time, too. Funny how some think Democrats speaking up about it is a new thing.

George II

(67,782 posts)
8. Yes indeed, and Jimmy Carter was ahead of the curve, too. As President....
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 09:53 PM
Dec 2018

...he predicted that within twenty years we'd have serious energy problems (those problems would have manifested themselves more than 20 years ago!)

Another thing about Carter and his energy/petroleum policies - he is the one who established the underground oil reserves, and he was castigated by republicans, Reagan in particular, for that "idiotic" idea. But now every time someone proposes that we use those reserves the REPUBLICANS balk and claim "they're too important and strategic"!!

Funny how others, some Democrats included, latch onto "bad ideas" once they're shown to be GOOD ideas!

progressoid

(49,990 posts)
74. I thought we were talking about green energy and stuff re: Obama
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 10:30 PM
Dec 2018

I just was recalling a memory that he was pushing clean coal as a candidate and new President. Sorry if I misunderstood your Obama reference.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
90. Henry David Thoreau was pushing green thinking over a century ago...
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:34 AM
Dec 2018

Does that mean that the back to Earth movements of the late 1960s had no reason to exist? Since Thoreau or St. Francis or any intelligent, ecologically brilliant sage said such and such, do we wave the finger at those who followed?

I really don’t get a lot of the shop talk on this forum. It seems so narrow-minded sometimes. Do think Rachel Carson (Silent Spring) would want us to put the breaks on the griwing popularity of the Green New Deal?

Save the planet. There’s no time to be petty.

brush

(53,778 posts)
52. Is snark the only thing you have to offer, as if there were no green initiatives...
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:38 PM
Dec 2018

in Obama's proposals?

Do you have anything of substance to add?

progressoid

(49,990 posts)
97. Sorry, I just get the memo.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 01:35 AM
Dec 2018

Pot shots at AOC, the Green New Deal and others in the progressive wing are OK. Pot shots at Obama, NOT OK.

Got it.



Autumn

(45,091 posts)
102. Mentioning clean coal and Obama is a pot shot?
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 11:33 AM
Dec 2018
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20100210/obama-making-clean-coal-president

Obama's executive office memorandum looks like a big victory for the coal industry, which was already handed $3.8 billion in last year's stimulus act for carbon capture and storage (CCS) research and development and deployment. He did not simultaneously order a similar plan for a big roll-out of solar or wind energy to level the playing field.

Making good on campaign promises, the president is throwing the full weight of his administration behind a moonshot effort to make coal the "clean" energy technology of choice and open a federal pathway to a profitable future for one of the nation's most polluting industries.

Three factors have cemented Obama's support for carbon capture and sequestration technology: political necessity, economic opportunity and the backing of some of the most powerful mainstream environmental organizations operating inside the Beltway.

With climate legislation stuck in the Senate and perhaps in limbo until after the next presidential election, green groups are evaluating their next moves, trapped by concessions they negotiated with the coal industry, but betrayed by the politics, which has now left them without climate protection measures that were supposed to be part of the deal.

progressoid

(49,990 posts)
107. Apparently it is.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:53 PM
Dec 2018


I forgot how Biden got the campaign in trouble in Ohio when he blurted out that "that neither he nor Obama supported clean coal. The McCain campaign tried to make hay from the uninformed indiscretion, and the Obama camp dispatched Rep. Rick Boucher (D-Va.) to reassure voters that the Democratic ticket was "a friend of coal." "

Oops.

Autumn

(45,091 posts)
109. You know you're though the looking glass when mentioning what a Dem
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 01:07 PM
Dec 2018

president said, supported or did is an insult.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
64. Is that all ya got? That's the only "insult"
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 07:58 PM
Dec 2018

you can come up with regarding President Obama and his Green energy Platform?!

FSogol

(45,486 posts)
20. Don't know. This appears to be the age of the amateur and rhetoric
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 07:04 AM
Dec 2018

Over actual accomplishments. He's cursed with being competent and prolific. His plans were based in reality, not fantasy.

ismnotwasm

(41,984 posts)
13. Not even a little bit.
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 11:29 PM
Dec 2018

One of my pet peeves on how “ideas” are presented, is when a particular group of people claim credit for the hard work of a lot of other people.

ismnotwasm

(41,984 posts)
27. You too!
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 12:42 PM
Dec 2018

I’m hit and miss everywhere—We are dealing with my dying dog, (cancer) we will have him put down after Christmas, so I’m not much in the spirit. My poor baby

 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
17. I also don't see where Castor outright dismissed it.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 12:07 AM
Dec 2018

What Pelosi has done is a really good move. The coordinated attacks seem really shady.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
18. It's the usual propaganda meant to divide us.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:02 AM
Dec 2018

We just need to remember we each have a voice and we have a responsibility to use them to debunk false stories.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
93. I'm going to be very clear here.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:44 AM
Dec 2018

I didn't say she wasn't.

I'm saying the propaganda is bushit. And whatever she might evolve into being is tainted by this bullshit.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
28. Duh! Who ever thought it was new?
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 12:47 PM
Dec 2018

Geezuz the dividers here.

And why do you think so many of us, and especially young educated people, have been banging our heads on a wall over this shit: global warming, sustainable/renewable energy, etc., forever.

Irritating!

KPN

(15,646 posts)
41. Oh? Or is it more like some are acting like they assume some are acting like they just came up
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:03 PM
Dec 2018

with the idea recently? Hmmm ....

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
36. Nobody
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 01:21 PM
Dec 2018

This the premise of this thread is bizarre. If there even is one beyond the obvious intent to bash AOC.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
40. BINGO!
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:00 PM
Dec 2018

Gotta squash the upstarts who "haven't paid their dues", until they learn to "go along to get along", "pay appropriate respect to their elders", and accept "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". All principles that young people began casting aside 15-20 years ago and continue to do so. Heck, in many ways as far back as the 60s in my recollection.

Some folks forget their past, and have become enamored with either what worked for them or their own position within the power construct; in other words, themselves. I think it, so it must be right!

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
51. And it's so funny that the OP thinks this is some big 'aha!' or something
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:32 PM
Dec 2018

I mean what's the point? It's not a new idea! And? So let's not do anything? It doesn't make any sense at all.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
38. this thread confirms the need for a renewed, energetic focus, which AOC brings to the table
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 01:22 PM
Dec 2018
AOC's Approach to the 'Green New Deal' is Revolutionary in Scope and Immediacy
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211580214

The original poster is focused in this thread on a political slam of AOC, using this important issue as a cudgel. Cynicism over climate change efforts just bleeds out of this unfortunate thread.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,921 posts)
88. Well aren't you the coy one.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:25 AM
Dec 2018

Well, actually, no, but if it makes you feel clever to respond with "she isn't mentioned in the OP" then have at it.

 

irresistable

(989 posts)
29. A special committee dedicated to a Green New Deal with subpoena power would be a good thing.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 12:58 PM
Dec 2018

I'm interested in implementing the idea.

yardwork

(61,620 posts)
56. ??? Where have I put down young folks?
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 03:05 PM
Dec 2018

You've made a personal accusation against me. Either provide a link with evidence supporting your accusation or have the courtesy to apologize and self-delete.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
67. Did I say you? No, I didn't.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 09:01 PM
Dec 2018

How about you apologize for making assumptions and, as a result, this exchange personal? Jeepers.

yardwork

(61,620 posts)
99. "So why the obvious put down..."
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 09:33 AM
Dec 2018

Why did you respond to my post with that accusation?

Put up or shut up.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
100. There you go again. Did I say you?
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 11:23 AM
Dec 2018

Again, no. My comment was in reference to the OP.

How about answer my question? If Hillary's platform included a "green new deal" in effect, why does this OP/thread essentially criticize AOC and other young legislators/activists for promoting the same?

KPN

(15,646 posts)
105. I'll answer that with another question then.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 11:53 AM
Dec 2018

Why did you post that it was in Hillary's platform?

From this exchange, I can only assume that you took my question personally -- even though it wasn't intended to be -- because it fit.

yardwork

(61,620 posts)
110. I was responding to the OP, not you.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 01:52 PM
Dec 2018

I didn't respond to you until you accused me of putting down young people. Your posts in this thread are bizarre.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
39. Trying hard to see what its actual legislative goals were.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 01:30 PM
Dec 2018

So far it's been used as a cudgel to beat up on Pelosi. I imagine it would do good service in that department against O'Rourke, Jefffries and assorted other Dem rivals. Beyond that its goals were vague. So other than a catchy meme I don't see what there was of value in it.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
45. Oh, so you approve of the catchy meme, just not their use of it?
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:07 PM
Dec 2018

How is its use beating up on Pelosi? (BTW, huge supporter of Pelosi here -- always have been). I don't buy it. How is promoting a proposal to accomplish good ends a negative. I don't see it. To me, there's a boat load of sour grapes formed out of a "pay your dues" mentality going on here.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
70. "Keep up or step aside"
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 09:12 PM
Dec 2018

In non-handmade-letters on a not-handmade sign:


This is when Pelosi was facing what was then a stiff challenge to her leadership. To my eye this has the air of manufactured drama. Then there was the business with Jeffries, and before that, the business with Crowley. All that antagonism to achieve what exactly? "Green jobs for all?" Is that like Medicare for All? If so it doesn't exist except as a slogan and that's not a positive proposal.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
62. Yes. It was never a real program but a platform to attack Democrats from.
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 05:15 PM
Dec 2018

A vague wish list ranging far beyond climate that they never intended to result in a working committee. Universal basic income alone deserves its own special committee committed to that, but when we do set one up they'll attack that because it's not theirs. A green new deal national bank to control the federal reserve?

God!!! I OD'd on radical saboteurs in the late 1960s.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
66. Exactly, not unlike the Wall Street meme
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 08:43 PM
Dec 2018

For years we heard a steady stream of insinuations, declamations, accusations and defamations about how corrupt and compromised the Obama administration was for letting Wall Street banksters go free while creating legislation like the TARP for feathering their bankrolls at our expense. But when we finally got to hear that list of Wall Street criminals named, who was on it?

The Waltons of Arkansas and Jeff Bezos of Amazon.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
72. that's not the point
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 10:10 PM
Dec 2018

...the bent of this thread is that someone was taking credit for something already accomplished.

There was no GND enacted into law. That's why this very public push by AOC and others is important. We need the renewed energy and focus on this legislation to carry it forward.

This thread, and I'm not going to be duped by it, is just a swipe at AOC for having the audacity to present it anew. It's a cynical look back at things which were certainly proposed and voted on, but never made it into law.

Instead of all of the backslapping for the past, and the political attempt to marginalize this freshman legislator we need to get behind these folks who are pushing for significant, meaningful reform RIGHT NOW.

But have fun cheerleading the last president, as if that's even remotely something that's going to move the debate forward.

betsuni

(25,531 posts)
77. What was the point of attempting to blame the "Democratic-controlled" Senate for
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 11:28 PM
Dec 2018

Republican opposition to cap and trade? "In order to pass comprehensive legislation, you have to have 60 votes. To get 60 votes, you've got to have Republicans. As of today, we don't have any Republicans." John Kerry.

If Democrats can't get enough votes to pass legislation, please don't blame Cortez and other Democrats. Blame Republicans.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
78. missed the point completely
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 11:37 PM
Dec 2018

...that's what happens when you jump in the middle of others conversations.

The point is directed to the author of this unfortunate thread for trying to shame AOC. Absolutely correct that there are going to be forces out of our control which dictate the politics of climate change legislation. That should make it clear why this freshman legislator is working hard to make it a priority in THIS Congress.

NOTHING I wrote "blames Democrats," but if you want to be truthful you need to acknowledge the obstacles in our own party to comprehensive reform; for anything resembling an environmental "Marshall Plan."

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
80. you must be talking to yourself in the post directed at me, the one that wasn't directed to you
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 11:50 PM
Dec 2018

...carry on.

Response to Gothmog (Reply #71)

KPN

(15,646 posts)
98. Okay, so again, who said they were new? I didn't hear that from
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 02:09 AM
Dec 2018

anyone, anywhere.

Sour grapes.

Quixote1818

(28,936 posts)
59. Actually Nixon was pro-environment before Gore
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 03:22 PM
Dec 2018

https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/magazine/richard-nixon-and-the-rise-of-american-environmentalism

And if you want to go way, way, way back Teddy Roosevelt was supporting the Environment pretty hardcore. Oh! And Thomas Jefferson!

How far should we go back to make her look bad?

R B Garr

(16,954 posts)
103. No one compares to Al Gore on this issue. Speaking
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 11:40 AM
Dec 2018

of making people look bad, he should be acknowledged as a leading Democrat on this issue from decades ago by both Bernie and AOC.

Thanks to Bill Clinton and Al Gore for running on climate change even when it wasn’t cool and trendy.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
53. But the same resource industry billionaires,
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 02:47 PM
Dec 2018

and the same group of politicians who take money from these billionaires, appear uninterested in doing anything substantive.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
58. Nobody said it was.. but it got passed and
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 03:22 PM
Dec 2018

helped a lot of people in spite of the repubs and those who thought it wasn't perfect.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
76. Politicians aren't looking for copyrights...
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 11:26 PM
Dec 2018

Hopefully they fight for whats right regardless of whose idea it was.

Bucky

(54,013 posts)
108. Well it's not like FDR invented Keynesian economics
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 12:56 PM
Dec 2018

Ideas have to kick around for a while before they're implemented.

The tragedy is that we needed a green New Deal about 20 years ago. Now that climate change is killing jobs and killing people, we're talkin about 13th-hour solutions

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