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Gothmog

(145,256 posts)
Thu Dec 27, 2018, 11:01 PM Dec 2018

NYT-For Bernie Sanders, Holding Onto Support May Be Hard in a 2020 Bid

The NYT has a great article on some of the difficulties that sanders is facing if he runs in 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/bernie-sanders-president-2020.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

WASHINGTON — Some of his top congressional supporters won’t commit to backing him if he runs for president again — and two may join the 2020 race themselves. A handful of former aides might work for other candidates. And Bernie Sanders’s initial standing in Iowa polls is well below the 49.6 percent he captured in nearly defeating Hillary Clinton there in 2016.

Mr. Sanders may have been the runner-up in the last Democratic primary, but instead of expanding his nucleus of support, in the fashion of most repeat candidates, the Vermont senator is struggling to retain even what he garnered two years ago, when he was far less of a political star than he is today.

“It’s not a given that I’m going to support Bernie just because I did before,” said Lucy Flores, a former Nevada assemblywoman. “There are going to be plenty of people to look at and to listen to. I’m currently open at this point, and I think the majority of people are.”

As Mr. Sanders considers a second bid for the White House, he and his advisers are grappling with the political reality that he would face a far different electoral landscape than in 2016. Rather than being the only progressive opponent to an establishment-backed front-runner, the Vermont Independent would join what may be the most crowded, fractured and uncertain Democratic primary in the last quarter-century.

The NYT looks at a number of issues that show that sanders may have a very hard time duplicating his prior success
96 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYT-For Bernie Sanders, Holding Onto Support May Be Hard in a 2020 Bid (Original Post) Gothmog Dec 2018 OP
Good.. BS is too Divisive. Cha Dec 2018 #1
I think irrelevant as well. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #12
Happy New Year, LakeArenal! Cha Dec 2018 #21
Got two copies. Gonna donate one. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #22
Good on you! Cha Dec 2018 #25
That is so very wonderful. Thank you for sharing it. Made my heart melt. NT WeekiWater Dec 2018 #69
Mine, too, WeekiWater. Cha Dec 2018 #74
I totally share your feelings about this!! The division is toxic and it always weakens the party. NurseJackie Dec 2018 #73
The Division Cha Dec 2018 #75
The attacks on the party certainly aren't unifying... NurseJackie Dec 2018 #86
Me neither.. I've just been on Twitter.. Cha Dec 2018 #89
I think I understand the cynical motivation of those who attack the Democratic party... NurseJackie Dec 2018 #91
We Won the Democratic Majority Cha Dec 2018 #92
I am looking toward the future and not the past. nt sheshe2 Dec 2018 #2
I received an email from BS today asking for money. lapucelle Dec 2018 #3
"We made financial elite pay a price" Gothmog Dec 2018 #6
"It is just as important we do it again today." ucrdem Dec 2018 #8
Same broken record.. Adrahil Dec 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #37
Yep. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #46
I think a lot of us here are done being enchanted with him, Adrahil. He's always been a gadfly... Hekate Dec 2018 #50
"In 2016 we faced the kitchen sink" ucrdem Dec 2018 #13
There are evil forces who are against me. NanceGreggs Dec 2018 #14
Yeah, this is exactly what the first post Cha Dec 2018 #20
That is a great article Gothmog Dec 2018 #79
A few of President Obama's Accomplishments.. Cha Dec 2018 #85
A group running ads is going to scare candidates from supporting a progressive agenda? betsuni Dec 2018 #30
"Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #59
OMG, shouldn't he be attacking Republicans by now?! R B Garr Dec 2018 #71
He faced the kitchen sink, by golly! N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #90
What I don't understand Andy823 Dec 2018 #78
Post removed Post removed Dec 2018 #4
Promised the day before the great Roman Holiday. George II Dec 2018 #7
Is the great Roman holiday ... NanceGreggs Dec 2018 #11
Yes. Alas Pope Francis had no idea he was going to be there until he "bumped into him"..... George II Dec 2018 #17
Of Course It Will Be A Far Different Landscape Me. Dec 2018 #5
According to his email, in 2016 BS "faced the kitchen sink". lapucelle Dec 2018 #10
That's a funny way to describe the Clinton campaign ucrdem Dec 2018 #16
Maybe he felt the press was unduly harsh. lapucelle Dec 2018 #18
rofl Cha Dec 2018 #28
The Press bent over backwards to make him look good. nt Blue_true Dec 2018 #93
Yes, but what about...THE KITCHEN SINK! lapucelle Dec 2018 #94
he's confused.. that was Hillary who Cha Dec 2018 #23
The Little Baker's Kitchen Sink Me. Dec 2018 #24
lol Cha Dec 2018 #32
Maybe it's elitist to use idioms correctly. betsuni Dec 2018 #43
Oh yeah! Cha Dec 2018 #26
At His Peril Or Any WOC Me. Dec 2018 #29
No he is Not. Cha Dec 2018 #31
Maybe he can run as what he is this time redstatebluegirl Dec 2018 #56
You Are 1000% Correct Me. Dec 2018 #66
Sounds exactly right. Independent until you need help R B Garr Dec 2018 #70
Many Democrats in addition to POC would not be happy on attacks on Pres. Obama Gothmog Dec 2018 #80
I just was on twitter combating Cha Dec 2018 #88
From Josh Marshall Gothmog Dec 2018 #95
Yes, The Big Divide.. thanks Cha Dec 2018 #96
I wouldn't underestimate his appeal to many of his followers DFW Dec 2018 #15
Not Enough To Win The Primary Me. Dec 2018 #27
There never was that DFW Dec 2018 #35
We know that. George II Dec 2018 #63
What? Me. Dec 2018 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #36
Without a compliant media, that would have gone nowhere DFW Dec 2018 #38
Post removed Post removed Dec 2018 #39
Of course. Everyone tried for it. So how come only they got it? DFW Dec 2018 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #41
Reminds me of Ron Paul of the left Trenzalore Dec 2018 #42
The day he announced I'm sending $100. roody Dec 2018 #45
I'm sure he will maintain a core, but... Adrahil Dec 2018 #61
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2018 #19
I'm not sure that "expanding a nucleus of support" is synonymous with "securing the nomination". N/T lapucelle Dec 2018 #33
Right, it is still far to early to draw any conclusions. Tiggeroshii Dec 2018 #47
Gary Hart and John Edwards had other issues (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Dec 2018 #49
Edwards was losing even before his issues came out JI7 Dec 2018 #53
Good luck to him here in the south! GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #34
Or heckling Latina civil rights icon Dolores Huerta. nt SunSeeker Dec 2018 #44
Were "the gloves off" against.. disillusioned73 Dec 2018 #58
that was the general election. the primary is made up of mostly black voters in the south JI7 Dec 2018 #67
I was at the National Convention when Congressman John Lewis was booed Gothmog Dec 2018 #81
Thank goodness there will be fewer caucuses next time. n/t Tarheel_Dem Dec 2018 #48
He had his chance and he blew it. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 2018 #51
LaRouche, Kucinich, Sanders NBachers Dec 2018 #52
... NurseJackie Dec 2018 #87
News flash: NYT does usual number on Bernie shanny Dec 2018 #54
... betsuni Dec 2018 #55
Yup... disillusioned73 Dec 2018 #60
I fail to see what is productive about bashing Bernie around, but I do think that Magoo48 Dec 2018 #57
Campaigning is not "bashing Bernie around". Speaking of which, did you see the email he sent... George II Dec 2018 #64
Although I don't want to see him run again, Magoo48 Dec 2018 #68
I fail to see what is productive Cha Dec 2018 #76
K&R mcar Dec 2018 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #72
He better be content qazplm135 Dec 2018 #77
I wonder if he'll have Tad Devine as manager again NastyRiffraff Dec 2018 #82
Probably will as long as Devine hasn't been indicted by that time. Remember Devine's name.... George II Dec 2018 #84
6 Reasons Bernie Sanders Has Lost His 2016 Mojo Gothmog Dec 2018 #83

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
73. I totally share your feelings about this!! The division is toxic and it always weakens the party.
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 02:11 PM
Dec 2018

Heaven help us all.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
86. The attacks on the party certainly aren't unifying...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 06:17 PM
Dec 2018
75. The Division
is beyond Toxic.
Indeed! The attacks on the party certainly aren't unifying, and it creates suspicion, distrust and resentment. It FEEDS the division. But to what end? Things like that weaken the party and serve no good purpose. I'm not going to put up with it.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
91. I think I understand the cynical motivation of those who attack the Democratic party...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 06:38 PM
Dec 2018

I think I understand the cynical motivation of those who attack the Democratic party, but I'll never fully comprehend those who encourage that type of destructive and negative behavior. I've literally seen people cheering and high-fiving the smears and attacks on Democrats and the Democratic party.

Aloha , Cha!

lapucelle

(18,262 posts)
3. I received an email from BS today asking for money.
Thu Dec 27, 2018, 11:38 PM
Dec 2018

Here's an excerpt from his message.

Right now, a group of Wall Street Democrats known as the Third Way is running ads in early primary states — Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada — calling me out by name and saying our ideas, like Medicare for all, are a path to defeat in 2020.

They not only want to discourage or defeat a Sanders candidacy, they want to make sure that the progressive agenda is not advanced by anyone. They want us to go back to their failed corporate approach which has led to a massive level of income and wealth inequality, a bloated military budget and a failure to address the crises of climate change, a broken criminal justice system and inhumane immigration policies.Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive agenda. It is just as important we do it again today.

snip=======================================================

Make a $3 donation to our campaign as a way of saying we will NOT let the political and financial elite scare candidates from supporting a progressive agenda. Make them pay a price for their attacks.

In 2016 we faced the kitchen sink. If we run again, you should expect no less. But the political revolution is stronger and larger than ever, and they will be no match for us if we’re in this fight together.


The Act Blue Express Donate buttons also included options for $27, $50, $100, $250, and "any other amount".

Gothmog

(145,256 posts)
6. "We made financial elite pay a price"
Thu Dec 27, 2018, 11:50 PM
Dec 2018

I saw this term in that fundraising email and have a question. What was this price? I have some theories as to what this price was

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
9. Same broken record..
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:00 AM
Dec 2018

"Wall Street Democrats"

His fundraising emails violate our site rules, but he STILL somehow enjoys protected status here.

Response to Adrahil (Reply #9)

Hekate

(90,690 posts)
50. I think a lot of us here are done being enchanted with him, Adrahil. He's always been a gadfly...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 03:30 AM
Dec 2018

...aimed at the Democrats and not the GOP, and I really don't get his fixation on the Dems. It seems counterproductive, to say the least.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
13. "In 2016 we faced the kitchen sink"
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:01 AM
Dec 2018

It appears he's still running against Hillary and still raising money on it. That's unfortunate.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
20. Yeah, this is exactly what the first post
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:11 AM
Dec 2018

denotes.. BS and his insulting buzzwords against the Democratic Party.

It's working out so well against Beto. lol


betsuni

(25,531 posts)
30. A group running ads is going to scare candidates from supporting a progressive agenda?
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:35 AM
Dec 2018

I thought that was, like, you know, politics. Remember: ALWAYS blame Democrats!

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,347 posts)
59. "Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:08 AM
Dec 2018
agenda. It is just as important we do it again today."


Who is he talking about here?

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
78. What I don't understand
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:33 PM
Dec 2018

Is he is asking for donations by saying " Make them pay a price for their attacks." Yet in the next sentence he says "if we run again", not when we run again. Why should people donate money to him, if he doesn't even know if he will run? What will happen to all the "donations" he gets if he does not run, will he return that money to those who donated to him?

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

NanceGreggs

(27,814 posts)
11. Is the great Roman holiday ...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:01 AM
Dec 2018

... that time he was personally invited to the Vatican by the Pope - except that he wasn't?

George II

(67,782 posts)
17. Yes. Alas Pope Francis had no idea he was going to be there until he "bumped into him".....
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:09 AM
Dec 2018

....and his entourage in the lobby of his residence at 6:00 AM as the Pope was leaving for a trip to the island of Lesbos in Greece.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
5. Of Course It Will Be A Far Different Landscape
Thu Dec 27, 2018, 11:46 PM
Dec 2018

No more kid gloves, those notebooks filled with oppo will be opened and tax returns will be demanded not to mention the fact that he's not a DEm and that will be a real issue this time around. It will be put up or get out time.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
16. That's a funny way to describe the Clinton campaign
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:06 AM
Dec 2018

but that's the only race he was in that year.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
23. he's confused.. that was Hillary who
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:20 AM
Dec 2018

had the kitchen sink(the M$M, Russia and their enablers, stein's LIES, FB SHIT, Voter Suppression, Comey.. ).. thrown at her and still got 3 Million more votes than the Russian agent.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
29. At His Peril Or Any WOC
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:31 AM
Dec 2018

and this time around he'll have to find another banner to run under, after all, to quote him, he says he's not a DEm.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
56. Maybe he can run as what he is this time
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 08:11 AM
Dec 2018

an independent instead of hijacking our party and giving Trumper the White House. He will never stand the scrutiny of being the nominee. He would have to go in the attic in Vermont and find those tax returns.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
66. You Are 1000% Correct
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:45 AM
Dec 2018

after all, this isn't going to be a Senate run in Vermont where he did exactly that

R B Garr

(16,954 posts)
70. Sounds exactly right. Independent until you need help
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 01:45 PM
Dec 2018

makes no sense, and then criticizing the party again as has been posted here about his emails....

Gothmog

(145,256 posts)
80. Many Democrats in addition to POC would not be happy on attacks on Pres. Obama
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:47 PM
Dec 2018

I would view attacks on President Obama very negatively

Cha

(297,240 posts)
88. I just was on twitter combating
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 06:20 PM
Dec 2018

many BS fans pushing disinformation on President Obama. They seem to think it's their ticket to something.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
96. Yes, The Big Divide.. thanks
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:49 PM
Dec 2018

to BS.

Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive agenda. It is just as important we do it again today:

So going to make Democrats "pay a price again today" is he? What "price" does he have in mind?

Who made attacks on his "progressive agenda"? Wasn't it incorporated into the Democratic Platform?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11600075

It's the Democratic Blue Wave Party that Won the Midterms so we have a Democratic House Majority Now to Fight trump's Fascism Not "BS' mass emails".

DFW

(54,384 posts)
15. I wouldn't underestimate his appeal to many of his followers
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:06 AM
Dec 2018

This does not mean I agree with them, but he did and still does inspire an almost fanatic following in some, and of the "I could shoot someone in broad daylight in downtown Burlington" type.

Call it a cult, call it a following, call it whatever you want, but those people are out there, they think he can say and do no wrong, and there are still plenty of them. Do not look for them to fade away or be quiet, because they will do neither.

Response to DFW (Reply #15)

DFW

(54,384 posts)
38. Without a compliant media, that would have gone nowhere
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 01:01 AM
Dec 2018

In the summer of 2016, I was with my wife here in the States. She is German, but pretty dialed in politically. She said after two weeks, "your (i.e. USA) media is reporting on nothing but Trump and Sanders--you had better watch it, because somebody wants Trump to win."

She said this in July 2016. How many of us thought Trump had a chance in July 2016? And yet a German saw the danger signs right away while we were all celebrating prematurely.

Response to DFW (Reply #38)

DFW

(54,384 posts)
40. Of course. Everyone tried for it. So how come only they got it?
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 01:09 AM
Dec 2018

Weird scenes inside the gold mine..........

Response to DFW (Reply #40)

Trenzalore

(2,331 posts)
42. Reminds me of Ron Paul of the left
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 01:13 AM
Dec 2018

In a 3 person race where the 3rd person got no traction and the #1 person is one of the most controversial political figures of the past 20 years he finished 2nd.

He came and campaigned for a congressional candidate in my district during a primary. The candidate finished 3rd.

He has fanatical followers. They aren't enough to piece together a nomination.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
61. I'm sure he will maintain a core, but...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:20 AM
Dec 2018

The spell is broken.

My wife voted for him. She says she won't this time.

Lots of younger voters are looking elsewhere too. It's why some prominent Bernie supporters are taking potshots at Beto.

But he might still run (looks like he will) and he will seriously damage the party.... again.

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
34. Good luck to him here in the south!
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 12:44 AM
Dec 2018

The base of our party in many of our states are African Americans, especially women.

We in the south have a unique take on self claimed progressive. Especially those that focus on the grievances of the white working class. Cause that historically does not work out well for people of color.

And the gloves will be off in 2020. An ad or 2 of his supporters booing John Lewis will be the nail in the coffin.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
58. Were "the gloves off" against..
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:04 AM
Dec 2018

Cindy Hyde-Smith down in Mississippi?? Cause that didn't go so well..

Maybe the "base" in the "south" should focus on the real enemies for a change??..

JI7

(89,250 posts)
67. that was the general election. the primary is made up of mostly black voters in the south
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:52 AM
Dec 2018

especially Mississippi.

Gothmog

(145,256 posts)
81. I was at the National Convention when Congressman John Lewis was booed
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:53 PM
Dec 2018

I was a Clinton delegate to the National Convention and was warned by my whip that there was a planned stunt by the sanders delegates of booing Congressman John Lewis about 20 to 30 minutes before this stunt. My whip told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and he declined.

The Texas delegation shared a bus ride with the Georgia delegation from the hotel to the convention site. There were some upset people on the bus from that delegation.

My whip is or was working for the DNC. There are a ton of people who can be in such an ad.

BlueTsunami2018

(3,492 posts)
51. He had his chance and he blew it.
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:30 AM
Dec 2018

Because he didn’t really think he could win.

I wonder how the parallel universe where President Sanders resides is doing. This one certainly sucks.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
60. Yup...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 11:09 AM
Dec 2018

They are just preaching to their already owned audience..

but the thing is, folks are onto them.. and most corporate owned media.. it's why they want to control even the social media aspects so that their collective message can't be disputed with facts..

Magoo48

(4,709 posts)
57. I fail to see what is productive about bashing Bernie around, but I do think that
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 09:08 AM
Dec 2018

it is time for him, as well as the other old folks, to step aside for new energy and progressive enthusiasm. I say this as a 70-year-old. We need candidates who can draw the next generation in under the tent and give them a place to work and be heard. As Swedish teen Greta Thunberg recently reminded us all, our generation has completely failed the next.

Magoo48

(4,709 posts)
68. Although I don't want to see him run again,
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 01:34 PM
Dec 2018

I tend to agree with him that Wall Street Democrats do get in the way of a strong, progressive platform which I support.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
76. I fail to see what is productive
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 03:36 PM
Dec 2018

when he bashes Dems around.

Sanders teases possible 2020 White House bid, tears into 'Wall Street Democrats'


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/423055-sanders-tears-into-wall-street-democrats-campaigning-against-his

You know the Dems that took back the House in our Brilliant Blue Wave at Midterms.. those Dems from all over our Country.. so we have the House Majority now.

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
82. I wonder if he'll have Tad Devine as manager again
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:57 PM
Dec 2018

The same Tad Devine who worked with Paul Manafort to elect a pro-Russian in Ukraine. Devine's foray into the Russian swamp has caught Bob Mueller's eye, but will Bernie care if he thinks Devine can help him? We'll see.

George II

(67,782 posts)
84. Probably will as long as Devine hasn't been indicted by that time. Remember Devine's name....
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 06:13 PM
Dec 2018

....came up a number of times in Manafort's documents and was mentioned in some of the court filings by Mueller's office.

Gothmog

(145,256 posts)
83. 6 Reasons Bernie Sanders Has Lost His 2016 Mojo
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 05:58 PM
Dec 2018

Here is another interesting article speculating on the issues that may arise for the 2020 race http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/six-reasons-bernie-sanders-has-lost-his-2016-mojo.html

In 2016 Senator Bernie Sanders was a reasonably close runner-up to Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination. By losing that contest he evaded the blame for an unexpected loss to Donald Trump, and was also able to keep his political organization intact beyond Election Day. With Barack Obama’s term wrapping up, moreover, Sanders looked suddenly prescient in taking left-bent policy positions that the president did not share but was no longer in a position to proscribe. And his most intense following in the primaries was among young voters that seemed to bond with him like baby ducks, following him henceforth as their political hero.

But as the 2020 presidential contest begins to unfold, Bernie Sanders is something of an afterthought, if not quite a has-been. Instead of initially clearing the field of major rivals like Hillary Clinton did in her return to the campaign trail after finishing second to Barack Obama in 2008, Sanders faces a historically large list of competitors if he runs. In scattered national polling, he’s mired in the teens, well below Joe Biden and barely leading Beto O’Rourke. He’s not doing much better in the early states of Iowa and New Hampshire, where he invested so much time and so many resources in 2016. The candidates that he and his Our Revolution organization backed in the 2018 midterms had a mixed record at best.

As the New York Times suggests, Sanders seems to have lost his mojo:

Mr. Sanders may have been the runner-up in the last Democratic primary, but instead of expanding his nucleus of support, in the fashion of most repeat candidates, the Vermont senator is struggling to retain even what he garnered two years ago, when he was far less of a political star than he is today.
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