General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums''...I'm not here to be likeable. I'm here to fix this sh*t."
Link to tweet
Perfectly this.
Ohiogal
(32,109 posts)unless asked.
Republicans are the definition of hypocrisy because they elected the most vile, repulsive, unlikeable, human being on the whole planet. And I am being kind, here.
niyad
(113,600 posts)Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Guppy
(444 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Guppy
(444 posts)Do you honestly think a message like that would win? Look at our history of electing presidents. A message like that never wins. Man or Women. Think of Dukakis and competence. God that was awful. We might not like Frank Luntz but he is often right on words and messaging.
Also, think of Obama and hope.
Luntz has made liberal toxic.
This would fall flat in a general election.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And yes, many many unllikeable male candidates have won with the "I'm going to go there and shake things up, and fix Washington."
What do you think has been made "toxic" about liberals? Or is it just female candidates you find "librarian-like" and bad "sales people."
I see bad "salesmen" become popular liberal politicians.
aggiesal
(8,935 posts)that Luntz made the word "LIBERAL" toxic.
Not that liberals are toxic or that female candidates made liberals toxic.
Also, that "Castor oil is good for you" is really bad messaging.
I'm sure Guppy will correct me if I interpreted that incorrectly.
I certainly don't want to put words in Guppy's message,
but just wanted to clarify.
Guppy
(444 posts)messaging is important. Luntz made the word liberal toxic. I still prefer Liberal as it has a great history. Like I am stating.
Hope- Obama makes people feel good.
Fix this shit- awful and depressing.
watoos
(7,142 posts)The corporate controlled M$M, who you designate Luntz as, also made the mention of the name Nancy Pelosi toxic. So what? There is a reason the right made the name Pelosi toxic, because they fear her.
Liberal has a totally different meaning with the rest of the world, in the rest of the world a liberal is a Libertarian.
When the right demonizes someone or something without actually making an argument why, that tells me the right fears that thing or person.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)We may despise Trump, but his base loves him and the media loves him, and that allowed him to drive the narrative. The daily scandals of his corruption, incompetence and being a horrible person were balanced by the media with Hillary's emails so that they were 50-50. Heck, in the NY Times, Hillary's emails were a bigger scandal than anything Trump related.
Obama won because he was more charismatic and likable than Romney and McCain.
Bush Jr won because he was the "regular guy" that Chris Matthews wanted to have a beer with, while Gore and Kerry were stiff and out of touch elitists.
Bill Clinton was the likable and charismatic guy compared to Dole and Bush Sr.
However, Bush Sr was more likable that the epically bland Dukakis.
Same with Reagan - likable and charismatic, especially compared to Mondale and the indecisive Carter.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)Hillary, Gore, and Kerry were all somewhat unlikable. Stiff, unrelatable to many people.
Obama was so likable that he could be elected despite being black, which in this country is obviously still a huge strike against you (I think more so than being a woman)... and McCain and Romney were not even terrible candidates, as Republicans go.
I think Warren is pretty likable. On the other side, so is Nikki Haley.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)Who? And specifically, in the age of television, when would you say an unlikable candidate has won against a candidate who was more likable?
DBoon
(22,401 posts)I'm sure I can come up with many more.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,888 posts)But that was Texas.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)But yeah, it was Texas... and also, he was an incumbent. I wonder how likable his first opponent was?
Anyway, I was really talking about national elections, which tend to factor out the regional extremes. Presidentially, it's a pretty safe bet that New York will vote for the Dem and Utah will vote for the Republican, no matter how likable or unlikable either candidate is.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,888 posts)but the controversy over the Vietnam war, divisions within the Democratic party, and 3rd party candidate George Wallace skewed the whole thing. And the popular vote was very close; Nixon won that by less than 1%.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,888 posts)McGovern's antiwar position was unpopular with a lot of the general public, and Nixon's campaign managed to paint him as weak. Nixon's unlikability was spun as strength, and McGovern's association with the antiwar movement and all those nasty hippies did him in. He was the first presidential candidate I voted for.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,888 posts)I clearly remember that whole mess, and I cringed a bit even at the time.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,888 posts)"aggressive" or "shrill," sexist descriptions that women with charisma often get stuck with.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)I think Warren is more charismatic than Kerry, for example. They're from the same area of the country, and of the same generation, and if anything, to the extent that physical attractiveness matters, Kerry is probably more "classically" attractive than Warren is. But Warren is personally engaging in a way that Kerry is not.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Rudy Giulianni, David Vitter, Trey Gowdy.
Heh
aggiesal
(8,935 posts)onit2day
(1,201 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Farmer-Rick
(10,216 posts)It's about time. AND just think how the Traitor Trump would feel...if he has feelings...being sandwiched in by an amazing black man (who got elected twice) and an amazing woman.
I do not want another rich old white man. As a middle class old white man, I'm tired of supporting the uber rich white investors and the American/Russian mob. A woman probably doesn't have those invested interests. A minority woman has
an even a better chance of not being in with those criminals.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But there are those who find them as distasteful as "castor oil."
Guppy
(444 posts)I said it would fall flat as a general campaign message. The first thing in sales is never come across in a course fashion. This is a sales job. When you go out and buy a car do you like the sales person to knock the competition or do you find it distasteful. Most people like to feel good about their choice.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Who is "knocking the competition" in your metaphor?
And who is being "coarse?"
Guppy
(444 posts)It is not a slight on women. It is a slight on stating a message like that. It would be disastrous for either gender.
Can you see Amy Klobacher saying that. It would be so against her persona. It is just a cringeworthy message.
Guppy
(444 posts)Castor oil is a terrible message. That is exactly my point. Think of Obama and hope. That was a great message. It was uplifting. fixing this shit and I am not her to be liked is awful.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Because every American who still thinks freely, appreciates democracy, and hates whats happening to this country would be overjoyed.
As long as you smile a lot, don't raise your voice too often, dress nicely, and don't gain any weight.
Actually, over the years I could tell when Hillary was being over managed and poorly advised by political consultants. You could hear someone in the background telling her to be stronger, but not too aggressive or laugh more to come across as likable. The Hillary of the early nineties was refreshingly open and spontaneous. In 2007-08, she had advisers pulling and pushing her in all directions, until she was barely recognizable as the very effective senator from New York. So without realizing it, they were succeeding in making her appear inauthentic.
I can see the same thing happening to other women running for higher office, if they allow political consultants dictate their every word, gesture, and body language. And I am assuming much of this advise is coming from male consultants!
It won't be easy for any woman who decides to run. Hopefully, they can stay true to themselves and tune out a lot of really bad advice and criticism, especially from the television pundits!
elleng
(131,176 posts)but there's too much vulgarity these days. They behave that way, but we don't have to articulate it so often, do we?
llmart
(15,556 posts)with the slogan "fix the damned roads". People loved that ad.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,372 posts)Those of us who have to drive on them have much more colorful and profane adjectives.
IronLionZion
(45,554 posts)Any Dem woman would be better liked by me at least, and would fix this shit.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)It worked for him on The Apprentice. TV is not kind to people who lack these traits.
greenman3610
(3,947 posts)'The guy you'd like to have a beer with" while Gore was all wonky and
smart, and well informed. How boring, when you're a stupid journalist, and
drinking beer is what you do best.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)TwistOneUp
(1,020 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)That's basically the Orange Dolt's attitude.
watoos
(7,142 posts)but that one made me laugh out loud.
Yeah, that's the message, Democrats need to work with Republicans, Republicans who have vowed to vote against anything that Democrats propose even if it benefits the country.
Until Republicans stop making everything political, stop putting party over country, they deserve condemnation, they deserve to be called out. Frankly we need more Maxine Waters not less.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but stay at a stalemate. At least, in the Senate. So it is still a dumb thing to say. For anyone in government, it's not what you want on your own that will happen.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Review the list of Presidents and consider how many of them in recent decades were not liked by voters in their party.
It can be overcome by other assets (like being an incumbent from the White House...or having an extraordinary military background when elected in war time, or being especially adept in debates, etc.), but generally, people who are elected President have been well liked by their party voters.
There are other components. Being in denial of the characteristics that voters vote for doesn't mean those characteristics don't exist.
Being liked vs not liked isn't an either-or proposition. There's a range. But it is a characteristic that is important to voters. They care about issues, too. But most of the candidates in a party will agree on the major issues. Once you get passed that, the individual's characteristics and qualifications come into play.
Bucky
(54,087 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)Why do Democrats eat our own?
Bucky
(54,087 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)but it's not a good idea for a campaign. It would alienate people and cause the same division we can see right here in this thread.
wroberts189
(4,105 posts)Hillary just came across to me as my evil aunt... even though I am not superficial...
I know men that are ....
Warren does not come off that way ...but I know some others do..
Just sayin...
I used to vote for the ideal candidate... but now I have to look at elect-ability because of Electoral college...and watched too many elections.
We have to run someone with broad mass appeal.
AndJusticeForSome
(537 posts)ought to have that as their mantra! And mean it. And do it.