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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 12:57 PM Jan 2019

Going beyond "No". How Democrats can profit from a lengthy shutdown.

Trump is pressuring and pressuring, because he knows that he can portray any ever-so-slight compromise by the Democrats as a win.

Trump only has one negotiation trick. His trick is, if he wants $15, ask for $20. Make what he wants look like some kind of “deal.”

So...

Why don't Democrats do the same? Get out your wishlist and demand EVERYTHING ON THAT LIST in exchange for the wall.

Then, ask for something big. Ask for Trump to fully fix legal immigration, for example. Grant DACA. Stop going after legal immigrants. Grant legal asylum requests. Allow 1 million new refugees into the country every year legally (I’m just picking a number here). You could even ask bigger. You could ask for all the fixes to legal immigration and then ask for him/Republicans to fully fund a Medicare for All program.

Trump and Republicans aren’t going to support these things. Setting it up this way, however, does a couple things. Most importantly, you’re not just saying “No.” It’s clear what you’re fighting for because you’re asking for it. Secondly, it puts the onus back on Trump and Republicans. You want a deal? What are you willing to compromise on? Of course the answer is nothing. That needs to be the headline: “Republicans say ‘No’ to deal.”

This is a standard-tactic. Negotiation 101: Be the one to define the center, the average, the median, the baseline of demands around which the negotiation fluctuates.

Demand the COMPLETE democratic wishlist on immigration and offer Trump his $5.6 billion in exchange.



https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1823224/-Trump-s-shutdown-bet-and-how-to-defeat-it#read-more

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Going beyond "No". How Democrats can profit from a lengthy shutdown. (Original Post) DetlefK Jan 2019 OP
Like he will fall for that..... ProudMNDemocrat Jan 2019 #1
You'd be surprised how little voters care about principles. DetlefK Jan 2019 #2
Pelosi-Schumer hard line, seems like the best line empedocles Jan 2019 #3
It was Republicans who shut down the government when they controlled Washington. dalton99a Jan 2019 #4
I'm all for taking a pure hard line. backscatter712 Jan 2019 #5
Pelosi has it right Charlotte Little Jan 2019 #6
The Senate passed a clean CR 100 - 0 YessirAtsaFact Jan 2019 #7
THIS but bluestarone Jan 2019 #12
If the shutdown goes on long enough, I think they will YessirAtsaFact Jan 2019 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Jan 2019 #8
Open the government first. ooky Jan 2019 #9
THIS KentuckyWoman Jan 2019 #10
I agree this is a better tactic ... but in the end Dems likely cave because they actually care mr_lebowski Jan 2019 #11

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,786 posts)
1. Like he will fall for that.....
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 12:59 PM
Jan 2019

Asking for something in return IS NOT in Donald Trump's DNA.

Democrats have to play hardball with him and stick to their principles by reminding Americans who Trump PROMISED would pay for the Wall in the first place.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
2. You'd be surprised how little voters care about principles.
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:10 PM
Jan 2019

Keep on saying No and the Democrats will eventually look like obstructionists.

Trump wants his wall? Fine. Let's see how much he is politically willing to pay for it.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
5. I'm all for taking a pure hard line.
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:16 PM
Jan 2019

Zero funding for the wall, clean spending bills to end the shutdown, or nothing.

We give nothing to Trump, we do not negotiate with hostage-takers, and we make absolutely fucking sure Trump comes out of this mess completely humiliated.

Charlotte Little

(658 posts)
6. Pelosi has it right
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:19 PM
Jan 2019

Don't negotiate with a bully. They don't make honest deals and they'll just use the same bully tactics the next time.

No money for the wall, period.

YessirAtsaFact

(2,064 posts)
7. The Senate passed a clean CR 100 - 0
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:28 PM
Jan 2019

If 50 republicans in the House will vote with the Democrats, they can simply override Trump’s veto.

Response to DetlefK (Original post)

ooky

(8,928 posts)
9. Open the government first.
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 01:35 PM
Jan 2019

His hostage taking tactics cannot be tolerated or entertained in any way. Period. Hostages are unacceptable.

Once the government is open, I'm fine with discussing more "border security" money (NOT "wall&quot if we get equal concessions, like permanent status for DACA recipients. But I think such concessions will not happen because Coulter and Limbaugh don't like them. They won't be happy with anything but throwing the Dreamers out. I don't think we can fix immigration issues until we control both legislative chambers and the executive branch.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
11. I agree this is a better tactic ... but in the end Dems likely cave because they actually care
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 02:57 PM
Jan 2019

about keeping the government running, not having govt workers lose their homes, not having our air travel system become unsafe, not having people unable to use their food stamps, etc.

And Trump doesn't GAF about ANYthing except 'winning'. He'll let everyone suffer to 'get his way', and the more gov't workers that quit their jobs cause they have to put food on the table, the better in his mind. Mostly Democrats anyway, and many in Unions. And he'll LOVE to hear about regular citizens suffering at his hands even more, because he's a narcissistic sociopath.

And he'll just keep trotting out endless lies about how much 'danger' we all are in from the invading foreign hordes (nevermind that illegal crossings are already at historic lows), and his knuckle-dragging cult members will swallow it all, whole hog, and the media will continue to play their 'both sides' and 'it's all political' bullshit game (outside of the handful of honest folks on our side, like Hayes and Maddow).

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