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milestogo

(16,829 posts)
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 05:56 PM Jan 2019

Isn't calling someone a "mofo" as bad as calling someone a "c*nt"?

First off, children are listening. I did not grow up hearing words like either of the above because adults around me would never have used these words in front of a child.

Secondly, the term mf is literally means someone who has sex with (or rapes?) a woman who is a parent. Like a father? How does this even mean something terrible? Is sex terrible? Are women who have sex terrible? Are mothers terrible? If I were a child hearing this I would be bewildered. Its not that its shocking so much as that its really incoherent.

Finally - MF is part of a language that is used to oppress women. When we repeat that language we are buying into patriarchy, bigtime. Its not about clutching pearls, its about using and choosing words wisely and thoughtfully.

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Isn't calling someone a "mofo" as bad as calling someone a "c*nt"? (Original Post) milestogo Jan 2019 OP
Well blue cat Jan 2019 #1
they are just words. - Frank Zappa mikeysnot Jan 2019 #2
Yup. woofless Jan 2019 #39
Nope maxsolomon Jan 2019 #3
it lost it's literal meaning eons ago bigtree Jan 2019 #4
there doesn't appear to be any evidence that it ever had a literal meaning. unblock Jan 2019 #10
Oedipus? ProudLib72 Jan 2019 #18
ironically, so did the word "eons" Bucky Jan 2019 #22
I have a whole host of idioms I'm relying on these days bigtree Jan 2019 #51
Try calling your boss that BeyondGeography Jan 2019 #29
Friend, context is everything. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2019 #37
If that's true, then why does still cause so much pain? n/t ariadne0614 Jan 2019 #31
Nancy Pelosi bigtree Jan 2019 #49
A pebble doesn't cause an avalanche, but it makes a contribution. ariadne0614 Jan 2019 #63
As well as being completely irrelevant to current issues. JohnnyLib2 Jan 2019 #5
No. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #6
No, it's not. It is an accusation of a particular act - of fucking *their* mother muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #7
she said, that she said it in front of her child dsc Jan 2019 #8
that's not exactly clear bigtree Jan 2019 #11
That's not how it was reported. That just has he saying to her son "baby, they don't" muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #17
Isn't it so much more fun to make things up, though? nt. Mariana Jan 2019 #57
No ismnotwasm Jan 2019 #9
This Me. Jan 2019 #30
+++++++ uppityperson Jan 2019 #33
Yes. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #59
No, not even close. n/t demmiblue Jan 2019 #12
It's meaning is not what you think. MineralMan Jan 2019 #13
Depends where you are maxsolomon Jan 2019 #19
"In modern England, it's now every 3rd word out of people's mouths ..." Denzil_DC Jan 2019 #32
I'm exaggerating to make a point maxsolomon Jan 2019 #55
Well, I'm Welsh. Denzil_DC Jan 2019 #56
Good to know. maxsolomon Jan 2019 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jan 2019 #27
Because calling men "dicks" isn't meant to humiliate and disempower them. ariadne0614 Jan 2019 #34
Theyre just words people Fullduplexxx Jan 2019 #14
Did you sprain your back? obamanut2012 Jan 2019 #15
as someone struggling with lower back pain, I'm offended by your metaphor Bucky Jan 2019 #23
As someone trying to start a thoughtful discussion milestogo Jan 2019 #25
A thoughtful discussion cannot be predicated on a thoughtless premise. LanternWaste Jan 2019 #61
Children dying at the border; a president sold out to THE enemy; a party of spineless bastards rurallib Jan 2019 #16
Fascism, or naughty words from the movies? dalton99a Jan 2019 #26
Context, context, context..it matters. Captain Stern Jan 2019 #20
Here's my take blogslut Jan 2019 #21
Aren't we sort of missing the main point here, that Trump is an aspiring daughterfucker? Bucky Jan 2019 #24
NO Me. Jan 2019 #28
I think a fake president calling the press "the enemy of the people" is far worse than any 'dirty' UniteFightBack Jan 2019 #35
Nope MrScorpio Jan 2019 #36
Let's ask Samuel L Jackson uppityperson Jan 2019 #38
" Definition of motherfucker 1 obscene : one that is formidable, contemptible, or offensive -- Kaleva Jan 2019 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Jan 2019 #41
Are you now going to start acting like Trump because of this? Kaleva Jan 2019 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Jan 2019 #47
As far as I can tell, no one is even suggesting you lower or modify your own standards. Kaleva Jan 2019 #53
Are you implying Motherfucker has not been used prior to his Presidency? LanternWaste Jan 2019 #62
For what it's worth, I appreciate your attempt to initiate a thoughtful discussion. ariadne0614 Jan 2019 #42
Thank you. milestogo Jan 2019 #44
My experience has been much of the same MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #48
I sure hope not. N/t Horse with no Name Jan 2019 #45
It's complicated maxrandb Jan 2019 #46
Daughter fucker would have been more appropriate. WeekiWater Jan 2019 #50
I just want the JustAnotherGen Jan 2019 #52
Yes, Mofo is a Sexist Word; It Demeans Women and I'm Not Aware of any Male Equivalent dlk Jan 2019 #54
I've seen pictures of his mother, she looks just like him. dogman Jan 2019 #58
I restrain my language here at DU. Would you like to hear my unrestrained thoughts on Trump? backscatter712 Jan 2019 #64
I would rather be called either of those two names than be called a Republican Buckeyeblue Jan 2019 #65
No. meadowlander Jan 2019 #66

woofless

(2,670 posts)
39. Yup.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:24 PM
Jan 2019

And I've come to believe that words aren't offensive. One CHOOSES to be offended, and can choose to not be offended and just blow it off.

unblock

(52,208 posts)
10. there doesn't appear to be any evidence that it ever had a literal meaning.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:15 PM
Jan 2019

at least, in my exhaustive minutes of googling, i haven't been able to find anything suggesting it was ever meant to be interpreted literally, whether the "mother" in question was meant to be one's own mother or someone else's mother.

of course, the mere, motherless "fucker" similarly seems like an odd insult. back in high school, virgins were laughed at and being known as someone who had sex was a badge of honor, so being called a "fucker" would seem like it should be a compliment. but don't try this at home, kids....

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
51. I have a whole host of idioms I'm relying on these days
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:08 PM
Jan 2019

...no one knows what the heck I'm talking about anymore.

BeyondGeography

(39,370 posts)
29. Try calling your boss that
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:08 PM
Jan 2019

Then see if it has lost its meaning. If it has, let me know, cuz I’d like to give it a try.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
37. Friend, context is everything.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:23 PM
Jan 2019

I can't think of a situation where calling a person a c--t could be seen as laudatory. I can think of situations where saying so and so is a bad mother f--ker is seen as laudatory as in "...You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother (Shut your mouth)."


bigtree

(85,996 posts)
49. Nancy Pelosi
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:03 PM
Jan 2019

"Words weigh a ton, and the president has to realize his words weigh a ton, too, and some of the words he's used have a direct impact on people's lives. My colleague's comments do not have an impact on people's lives."

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
7. No, it's not. It is an accusation of a particular act - of fucking *their* mother
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:11 PM
Jan 2019

I don't know if anyone intends it to imply rape or not.

Were children listening to the MoveOn meeting? It seems unlikely.

Because it's saying they are as bad as someone who commits incest, it's saying they are universally loathed, for how they act. It's not a comparison to a body part that half the population has (and the half with, especially historically, less power and control).

Strange, I hear motherfucker used almost always to insult men. It's not about the patriarchy; it's saying the target is despicable.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
11. that's not exactly clear
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:17 PM
Jan 2019

...she may well have embellished the ending for the crowd, while certainly relating the part about impeachment and bullies to her son.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
17. That's not how it was reported. That just has he saying to her son "baby, they don't"
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:27 PM
Jan 2019
In the video, Tlaib can be heard saying: "People love you, and you win. And when your son looks at you and says, 'Momma, look, you won. Bullies don't win.' And I said, 'Baby, they don't.' Because we're going to go in there and we're going to impeach the motherf---er."

https://www.businessinsider.com/rashida-tlaib-impeach-trump-speech-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. It's meaning is not what you think.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:24 PM
Jan 2019

It's an incestuous insult, implying that the person being insulted has sex with his mother.

The other word is a derogatory name for female genitalia, and implies that there is something bad about such genitalie, making it a sexist slur.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
19. Depends where you are
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:33 PM
Jan 2019

Whether Cunt is derogatory. In America, it certainly is, although Feminism has sought to re-claim it in the last 20 years.

It comes from the Latin Cunnus, or Vulva. In Old English it was "Cunny", which is kind of cute sounding.

In modern England, it's now every 3rd word out of people's mouths, and can be used as a term of affection. Over there, it's no worse that calling someone a Bell End.

Denzil_DC

(7,233 posts)
32. "In modern England, it's now every 3rd word out of people's mouths ..."
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:14 PM
Jan 2019

I keep hearing this on US forums.

I've lived in the UK all my life. It most definitely is not that commonly used or heard.

It's a very strong taboo curse in most social environments, not much different to the situation in the US. If you're visiting the UK, I'd advise caution about the circumstances in which you use it.

To address the OP while I'm here, I'd understood "motherfucker" to originally refer to someone who used female prostitutes, the inference being that the prostitutes are somebody's mothers.

I'll leave others to debate whether that's an apt description of Trump.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
55. I'm exaggerating to make a point
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:15 PM
Jan 2019

obviously.

It's a curse word to be sure; it doesn't carry quite the harshness with which is empowered here. Maybe my Welsh friend is a bit too fond of it...

Denzil_DC

(7,233 posts)
56. Well, I'm Welsh.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:46 PM
Jan 2019

Yes, at school, it got bandied about quite a bit, and not in a complimentary way. It is sometimes used as banter between some who know each other REALLY well, but never in my circles at that time. It was more an invitation to a fight.

It's pretty damn harsh in most circumstances in the UK.

Response to MineralMan (Reply #13)

ariadne0614

(1,728 posts)
34. Because calling men "dicks" isn't meant to humiliate and disempower them.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:18 PM
Jan 2019

On the contrary, it can actually acknowledge their power, however offensively it is wielded.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
25. As someone trying to start a thoughtful discussion
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:02 PM
Jan 2019

I know that I should expect at least one negative comment that contributes absolutely nothing. Thanks for playing your part.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
61. A thoughtful discussion cannot be predicated on a thoughtless premise.
Tue Jan 8, 2019, 02:31 PM
Jan 2019

You offered zero evidence to support your premise, and ignored the relevant difference between the literal and the colloquial.

Thanks for playing your part, part deux.

rurallib

(62,411 posts)
16. Children dying at the border; a president sold out to THE enemy; a party of spineless bastards
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:25 PM
Jan 2019

a tax system that funnels our money to the rich; the greatest inequality in America'x history; a president about to declare a false national emergency; ......

the list goes on and on and this is what you choose to focus on?
I am sorry to be so blunt, but there are really, really important issues to focus on. The rape of our planet for instance. Will food stand up to the climate change?

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
20. Context, context, context..it matters.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:45 PM
Jan 2019

Words mean things, but the same words can mean different things, depending on the situation that they are used in.

For instance, the word 'fuck' in many cases is a reference to sexual intercourse. "I'd love to 'fuck' her" or "I'd 'fuck' the hell out of him." Or "We 'fucked', but were never really together."

But saying stuff like "'Fuck the New England Patriots, and Bill Belichick" or "'Fuck' this piece of shit car." or "What the 'fuck' is going on here?" don't have anything all to do with sexual intercourse.

I'd guess that when most people call donald trump a "mofo" they don't mean he had sex with, or raped, his own mother (or anyone else's). I think most people understand that that means he's an asshole.....just like calling him an asshole wouldn't actually mean that he's literally an anus. It just means that he's a bad person.

blogslut

(38,000 posts)
21. Here's my take
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 06:53 PM
Jan 2019

Calling the president a "motherfucker" = not offensive.

The president calling nazis "very fine people" = not only offensive but insane and alarming.

Words don't scare me. The deranged ramblings of a racist, irrational motherfucker scare me.

Bucky

(54,003 posts)
24. Aren't we sort of missing the main point here, that Trump is an aspiring daughterfucker?
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:02 PM
Jan 2019

Which you should think about every time you hear the phrase "Great Again"

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
35. I think a fake president calling the press "the enemy of the people" is far worse than any 'dirty'
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:19 PM
Jan 2019

word you can think of.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
38. Let's ask Samuel L Jackson
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:24 PM
Jan 2019


http://www.comedycentral.co.uk/viral/articles/theres-actually-a-reason-samuel-l-jackson-says-motherfucker-all-the-time
Speaking to The Howard Stern Show Jackson revealed that the word "motherfucker" helped him to control his childhood stutter. Just take a second to imagine that. Nine-year-old, fresh-faced, soft-voiced Samuel L. Jackson shouting "MOTHERFUCKER" on the playground.

As a kid, Jackson was bullied so severely that he stopped speaking at school for a year before he discovered the magic word. He's still not entirely sure why it worked.

"I have no idea how but it just does," he laughed. "It clicks a switch that stops the d-d-d b-b-b, because me I stuttered really, really, really badly for a long time." ...

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
40. " Definition of motherfucker 1 obscene : one that is formidable, contemptible, or offensive --
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:29 PM
Jan 2019

usually used as a generalized term of abuse"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/motherfucker

Is not Trump contemptible or offensive?

Note the difference with the word "cunt".

"cunt noun

1 obscene : the female genital organs "

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cunt

The term "motherfucker", as used today, doesn't have anything to do with sex while "cunt" is gender specific.

Had you referred to an on line dictionary, you probably would have been able to answer your own question and not had to write an OP.

Response to milestogo (Original post)

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
43. Are you now going to start acting like Trump because of this?
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:36 PM
Jan 2019

Who is forcing you to lower your standards?

Response to Kaleva (Reply #43)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
62. Are you implying Motherfucker has not been used prior to his Presidency?
Tue Jan 8, 2019, 02:32 PM
Jan 2019

Else what leads you to allege our use is predicated on his vulgarity?

ariadne0614

(1,728 posts)
42. For what it's worth, I appreciate your attempt to initiate a thoughtful discussion.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:32 PM
Jan 2019

Back in the 60’s I lustily engaged in course language as a sign of being a “liberated” woman. A few decades of experience has shifted my perspective, and I see how I was manipulated into accepting the sexist, misogynist Master Narrative. Now I see a correlation between the coarsening of our culture and the vile creature that ended up in the White House.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
44. Thank you.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:42 PM
Jan 2019

I think there is a correlation too. A few well-placed expletives can make a point, but when they are used by everyone all the time it just brings the whole culture to a lower, baser level.

maxrandb

(15,325 posts)
46. It's complicated
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 07:48 PM
Jan 2019

"Daughter F@#ker" is more appropriate when talking about Donnie Short Fingers, but MOFO rolls off the tongue better.

 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
50. Daughter fucker would have been more appropriate.
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:07 PM
Jan 2019

So you are right about the actual words.

But the children! They will be ok.

Cunt is a female body part and the word is more often than not used by men to degrade women. You couldn’t be more off in your comparison. Not even sure why there was a want to try to compare. The effort being put in here is way too much.

dlk

(11,561 posts)
54. Yes, Mofo is a Sexist Word; It Demeans Women and I'm Not Aware of any Male Equivalent
Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:15 PM
Jan 2019

There are many pejoratives that could be accurately used to describe Trump without using words that demean women. Trump demeans women enough as it is.

I remember when my youngest son was around 11 and asked me, "What is the man word for slut"? I told him there wasn't one. Misogyny runs deep in America and we have very far to go.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
58. I've seen pictures of his mother, she looks just like him.
Tue Jan 8, 2019, 10:49 AM
Jan 2019

Narcissist that he is, I could see him being an MF. On the other hand, Ivanka is his daughter, what's that called?

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
64. I restrain my language here at DU. Would you like to hear my unrestrained thoughts on Trump?
Wed Jan 9, 2019, 02:52 PM
Jan 2019

Why do we have any obligation at all to be civil to that daughterfucker?

meadowlander

(4,395 posts)
66. No.
Wed Jan 9, 2019, 03:27 PM
Jan 2019

I think "motherfucker" refers to someone doing something terrible but where we also, kind of, almost admire their nerve/cheek. A "mofo" is the kid in your class at school that is confident enough to get off with an adult. Yes, that's deeply wrong (mostly for the adult) but there's also a little acknowledgment of admiration for their daring. The equivalent is something like "cheeky bastard".

"Cunt" is 100% about shaming confident women into not asserting themselves. It is used to enforce social norms and double standards that stigmatize the way women behave. It is straight up hate speech when it is used that way.

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