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mahina

(17,654 posts)
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:35 PM Jan 2019

From a civil engineer: the wall cost exceeds 50 bln & can not be completed in trump's lifetime.

From a Houston-based civil engineer, shared on FB.
Howdy.

To recap: I’m a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors weren’t properly accounted for, and I’m an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert.

Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.

Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means it’s not been designed by professionals. It’s a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.

What disasters?

Off the top of my head...
1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesn’t matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. They’re either planning to circumvent all this, or they haven’t accounted for it yet, because that’s part of the design process, and this thing hasn’t been designed.
3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.engineering.com/amp/17599.html

And so on.

The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.

http://fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/docs/2016/07/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.pdf

It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign... It’s going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. “Cost overrun” will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trump’s lifetime.

I’m a structural forensicist, which means I’m called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there aren’t that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall project— a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we can’t afford to bid on jobs that are this political. We’re small firms, and we’re already busy, and we don’t gamble our reputations on political footballs. So you’d end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and it’d generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.

And it won’t be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I don’t know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination.

Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and it’s folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border won’t purchase or create them. They’re low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.

Let’s have border security, by all means, but let’s be smart about it. This is not smart. It’s not effective. It’s NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money. 🤷🏻?♀️

This is set to public. Have a blast sharing it.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
From a civil engineer: the wall cost exceeds 50 bln & can not be completed in trump's lifetime. (Original Post) mahina Jan 2019 OP
Yes, but the opportunity to divert $5 billion to grifty supporters and associates is NOW. tanyev Jan 2019 #1
I think that is a small part of it. Caliman73 Jan 2019 #2
You may well be right. Surely so, about it being political. mahina Jan 2019 #7
Oh, sure, the looting and pillaging is a bonus, but it's a guaranteed bonus. tanyev Jan 2019 #15
May they fail. mahina Jan 2019 #8
True, and I sure hope they are disgraced by it. mahina Jan 2019 #9
Kick dalton99a Jan 2019 #3
thank you mahina Jan 2019 #5
Thank you for posting this! smirkymonkey Jan 2019 #4
thanks, I completely agree. But not just 5.7 billion stupid, 50+ billion stupid *while* our mahina Jan 2019 #6
And that doesn't even account for the cost Mr.Bill Jan 2019 #10
ASAP. mahina Jan 2019 #19
Love the part about the drones. House of Roberts Jan 2019 #11
We're all being bullshitted by a conman. Oneironaut Jan 2019 #12
Yep. warmfeet Jan 2019 #13
Yep seconded. mahina Jan 2019 #18
KnR for an actual expert's analysis... GReedDiamond Jan 2019 #14
Thank you, Mahina for your post. When the sequel to NCjack Jan 2019 #16
My joy. Note please that I didn't write it. mahina Jan 2019 #17
Perhaps you could contact the author and suggest a contact with the Speaker's NCjack Jan 2019 #20
Hokay. I'll send to Brian Schatz and Mazie too. mahina Jan 2019 #21
Thanks so much for this contribution. Way eye-opening to sprinkleeninow Jan 2019 #23
That thought came to me also. You gotta try every which-way. sprinkleeninow Jan 2019 #22

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
2. I think that is a small part of it.
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:27 PM
Jan 2019

This is mainly political. Trump desperately needs to keep a high profile campaign promise. He is also trying to use the "foot in the door" technique putting the government on the hook for 5.7 billion to start, then we just have to keep going otherwise the money is just wasted.

I am sure that he has some cronies waiting on that 5 billion, but that is small potatoes. He wants to drag the government into a 100 billion dollar plus boondoggle so that he can brag to his racist, xenophobic little base, and impress Hannity.

tanyev

(42,558 posts)
15. Oh, sure, the looting and pillaging is a bonus, but it's a guaranteed bonus.
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:49 PM
Jan 2019

You know if any sections of wall ever do get built there will soon be stories of missing money, substandard materials and shoddy workmanship.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
4. Thank you for posting this!
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:40 PM
Jan 2019

As always, the biggest argument against this wall is that it is simply a stupid, ineffective, ridiculously expensive idea.

It is pointless. There is no point in debating this any further.

mahina

(17,654 posts)
6. thanks, I completely agree. But not just 5.7 billion stupid, 50+ billion stupid *while* our
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:41 PM
Jan 2019

air traffic controllers are not being paid!

Mr.Bill

(24,291 posts)
10. And that doesn't even account for the cost
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:08 PM
Jan 2019

of the next Democratic President to tear down what they do build.

Oneironaut

(5,494 posts)
12. We're all being bullshitted by a conman.
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:23 PM
Jan 2019

All Trump cares about is 2020. Why? Because he's amassing power and wealth. He knows that, as long as people think he's building a wall, he'll be okay. It doesn't matter if it's ever finished, or if it will ever work.

GReedDiamond

(5,313 posts)
14. KnR for an actual expert's analysis...
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:48 PM
Jan 2019

...and fuck Motherfucker and his enablers, particularly McConnell.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
16. Thank you, Mahina for your post. When the sequel to
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:58 PM
Jan 2019

P.G. Hall's famous book "Great Planning Disasters" (1982; ISBN 0520046072) is written, The Trump Wall (if started) will be Chapter 1. Here is what I recall about the book.

Engineering projects "designed" by politicians and bureaucrats (incompetents and liars) and turned over to contractors for construction have these important characteristics: a) the minimum cost overrun is a factor 7x; b) the completion dates are constantly extended by years.

The case studies in the book are: a) London's Third Airport;, b) London's Motorways; c) The Anglo-French Concorde, d) San Francisco's BART System, e) Sydney's Opera House, and f) Two Near-Diasters: California's New Campuses and Britain's National Library.

mahina

(17,654 posts)
17. My joy. Note please that I didn't write it.
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:39 PM
Jan 2019

I flunked calculus, and that was that. Hats off to all math and science folks.

The original poster lives and teaches in Texas.

Do you think I should make that clearer in my post?

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
20. Perhaps you could contact the author and suggest a contact with the Speaker's
Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:47 PM
Jan 2019

office or the House Appropriations Cmte.

Thank you for the OP.

sprinkleeninow

(20,247 posts)
23. Thanks so much for this contribution. Way eye-opening to
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 02:54 PM
Jan 2019

lay people.

We know it's a stupid 'idee' from mr. dumass, but with this specific and expert layout, WOW!



sprinkleeninow

(20,247 posts)
22. That thought came to me also. You gotta try every which-way.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 02:48 PM
Jan 2019

Never discount ahead of time that it's pointless.

Never know when their light bulbs will turn on.

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