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swag

(26,487 posts)
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 01:44 PM Jan 2019

Marcy Wheeler does some untangling of the Buzzfeed mess

It's long and detailed and legally, and worth a read.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/01/19/peter-carr-speaks/

Excerpt:

"Finally, the actions Carr took yesterday (and Mueller’s big-footing on Cohen’s testimony before the Oversight Committee next month) only make sense if Cohen might have to play a role in a possible trial, and not a report submitted confidentially to Attorney General William Barr. That’s what more likely explains Carr’s response than anything else: the discrepancy between what Buzzfeed reported and what Cohen allocuted posed a risk to possible a jury trial. And that may explain another reason why Mueller is a lot more modest about Trump’s role in Cohen’s lies than SDNY is.

Trump’s not going to be indicted by Mueller — at least not before he leaves office via election defeat or impeachment. So Mueller’s focus needs to be on the crimes of those he can charge, like Don Jr. That doesn’t rule out that the evidence he’s looking at show that Trump oversaw a series of coordinated false statements. He did! With Mike Flynn’s lies, Don McGahn’s clean up of Flynn and Jim Comey’s firings, the response to the June 9 meeting, and yes, this Trump Tower deal, nothing explains the coordinated story-telling of multiple Trump flunkies other than Trump’s approval of those lies. It is, frankly, journalistic malpractice that the press hasn’t noted that, especially on the June 9 meeting, the evidence that Trump lied and ordered others to has already been made public. Trump’s tacit (and explicit, with the June 9 statement) approval of serial false statements, to Congress, to the FBI Director, to FBI Agents, and to Mueller, is an impeachable offense. Multiple outlets have gotten solid proof of that, they just haven’t stated the obvious like Buzzfeed did, perhaps in part because they’re relying on White House sources for their reporting.

But Mueller won’t need to allege that for his case in chief, at least not on the issue of the Trump Tower deal. Because the events that matter to Mueller’s case in chief — the events to which Cohen might have to serve as a witness — happened in 2016, not 2017 or 2018. And the guilt that Mueller would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt if he does indict this conspiracy is not Trump’s guilt — except as an unindicted co-conspirator. It is Don Jr’s guilt.

So outlets that are suggesting that Mueller’s pushback backs off any evidence that Trump committed a crime make no more sense than the original Buzzfeed report (and ignore the actual evidence of how Cohen’s lies evolved, an evolution in which these outlets were active participants). The only thing that explains Carr issuing such an unprecedented order is if Cohen’s ability to testify on the stand must be preserved.

Robert Mueller has the unenviable task of needing to sustain as much credibility for a bunch of serial liars as possible, starting with Michael Cohen. Buzzfeed’s story — whether generally true or erroneous on details about Trump Organization witnesses or totally wrong — threatened that effort."

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Marcy Wheeler does some untangling of the Buzzfeed mess (Original Post) swag Jan 2019 OP
Excellent analysis. Definitely worth reading the entire post emulatorloo Jan 2019 #1
This is an excellent and very persuasive explanation. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #2
Bookmarked - thanks for this FakeNoose Jan 2019 #3
Marcy has been Wellstone ruled Jan 2019 #4
Kick dalton99a Jan 2019 #5
Makes sense to me. ananda Jan 2019 #6
Marcy is great mcar Jan 2019 #7
corroborates much of Buzzfeed Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #8
Yes; there was so much hysteria here last night that I considered giving up The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #11
it's nirvana! it's hell! Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #12
Another pundit who says that Trumpass will not be indicted rusty fender Jan 2019 #9
And he probably won't be. Like it or not, Mueller will probably follow the guidance The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #10
So what if he "wins" reelection?? chimpymustgo Jan 2019 #13
Those "rules" aren't law rusty fender Jan 2019 #14
Of course. But unless he finds something really, really bad, The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #15
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2019 #16

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,761 posts)
2. This is an excellent and very persuasive explanation.
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 01:57 PM
Jan 2019

Among other things, she posits that the leak came from SDNY and not from Mueller's office (patting self on back for having suggested the same myself, yesterday), and that Carr's response was to try to preserve as much credibility for Cohen as possible for a future trial as well as to indicate that they weren't the source of the leak and to warn SDNY personnel that they should STFU. Wheeler also explains why there are discrepancies between the SDNY's and Mueller's treatment of Cohen and his evidence, which means that Buzzfeed's report isn't necessarily inaccurate if it relied on sources within SDNY.

FakeNoose

(32,659 posts)
3. Bookmarked - thanks for this
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 02:08 PM
Jan 2019

It's bad weather today so I'm staying home. This is a good day to get caught up on my reading.

I posted last night that Mueller hadn't denied the Buzzfeed story, he just wanted us to know that the reporter didn't get it from HIM. It's an important point because no leaks have ever come from Mueller's office, and he's not starting now. The Buzzfeed reporter will probably never tell us who his source is, but does it really matter? I don't think so.

We need to keep our eyes on the prize, and not get distracted.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
4. Marcy has been
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 02:13 PM
Jan 2019

one of the most credible sources of true facts in our Country. She has been plugged into the fact machine for decades. When it comes to National Security and National Legal issues,Empty Wheel has the facts.

Looks like Buzzfeed embellished the story,but the fact that Cohen Lied,is the Fact being reported and seems to have proven fact.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,761 posts)
11. Yes; there was so much hysteria here last night that I considered giving up
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 03:04 PM
Jan 2019

reading DU at all. People need to keep their shit together; there's a long way to go before this is all over.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,374 posts)
12. it's nirvana! it's hell!
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 03:35 PM
Jan 2019

Turned out to be neither -- just another news story with some new info. Another brick in the (cell) wall.

It's really good to have experts in various fields weigh in. Those are the reports I enjoy most. The "scoops" are nice, but they rarely have a lot of meat on them.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,761 posts)
10. And he probably won't be. Like it or not, Mueller will probably follow the guidance
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 03:02 PM
Jan 2019

of the OLC memos from the '70s and the '90s. That doesn't mean he can't be indicted after he leaves office, though.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,761 posts)
15. Of course. But unless he finds something really, really bad,
Sat Jan 19, 2019, 08:25 PM
Jan 2019

chances are he'll stick with the OLC memos. On the other hand, it's starting to look like there is something really, really bad - so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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