General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMarcy Wheeler does some untangling of the Buzzfeed mess
It's long and detailed and legally, and worth a read.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/01/19/peter-carr-speaks/
Excerpt:
"Finally, the actions Carr took yesterday (and Muellers big-footing on Cohens testimony before the Oversight Committee next month) only make sense if Cohen might have to play a role in a possible trial, and not a report submitted confidentially to Attorney General William Barr. Thats what more likely explains Carrs response than anything else: the discrepancy between what Buzzfeed reported and what Cohen allocuted posed a risk to possible a jury trial. And that may explain another reason why Mueller is a lot more modest about Trumps role in Cohens lies than SDNY is.
Trumps not going to be indicted by Mueller at least not before he leaves office via election defeat or impeachment. So Muellers focus needs to be on the crimes of those he can charge, like Don Jr. That doesnt rule out that the evidence hes looking at show that Trump oversaw a series of coordinated false statements. He did! With Mike Flynns lies, Don McGahns clean up of Flynn and Jim Comeys firings, the response to the June 9 meeting, and yes, this Trump Tower deal, nothing explains the coordinated story-telling of multiple Trump flunkies other than Trumps approval of those lies. It is, frankly, journalistic malpractice that the press hasnt noted that, especially on the June 9 meeting, the evidence that Trump lied and ordered others to has already been made public. Trumps tacit (and explicit, with the June 9 statement) approval of serial false statements, to Congress, to the FBI Director, to FBI Agents, and to Mueller, is an impeachable offense. Multiple outlets have gotten solid proof of that, they just havent stated the obvious like Buzzfeed did, perhaps in part because theyre relying on White House sources for their reporting.
But Mueller wont need to allege that for his case in chief, at least not on the issue of the Trump Tower deal. Because the events that matter to Muellers case in chief the events to which Cohen might have to serve as a witness happened in 2016, not 2017 or 2018. And the guilt that Mueller would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt if he does indict this conspiracy is not Trumps guilt except as an unindicted co-conspirator. It is Don Jrs guilt.
So outlets that are suggesting that Muellers pushback backs off any evidence that Trump committed a crime make no more sense than the original Buzzfeed report (and ignore the actual evidence of how Cohens lies evolved, an evolution in which these outlets were active participants). The only thing that explains Carr issuing such an unprecedented order is if Cohens ability to testify on the stand must be preserved.
Robert Mueller has the unenviable task of needing to sustain as much credibility for a bunch of serial liars as possible, starting with Michael Cohen. Buzzfeeds story whether generally true or erroneous on details about Trump Organization witnesses or totally wrong threatened that effort."
emulatorloo
(44,133 posts)Thanks for posting
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,761 posts)Among other things, she posits that the leak came from SDNY and not from Mueller's office (patting self on back for having suggested the same myself, yesterday), and that Carr's response was to try to preserve as much credibility for Cohen as possible for a future trial as well as to indicate that they weren't the source of the leak and to warn SDNY personnel that they should STFU. Wheeler also explains why there are discrepancies between the SDNY's and Mueller's treatment of Cohen and his evidence, which means that Buzzfeed's report isn't necessarily inaccurate if it relied on sources within SDNY.
FakeNoose
(32,659 posts)It's bad weather today so I'm staying home. This is a good day to get caught up on my reading.
I posted last night that Mueller hadn't denied the Buzzfeed story, he just wanted us to know that the reporter didn't get it from HIM. It's an important point because no leaks have ever come from Mueller's office, and he's not starting now. The Buzzfeed reporter will probably never tell us who his source is, but does it really matter? I don't think so.
We need to keep our eyes on the prize, and not get distracted.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)one of the most credible sources of true facts in our Country. She has been plugged into the fact machine for decades. When it comes to National Security and National Legal issues,Empty Wheel has the facts.
Looks like Buzzfeed embellished the story,but the fact that Cohen Lied,is the Fact being reported and seems to have proven fact.
ananda
(28,868 posts)I became convinced yesterday that Mueller was
trying to protect Cohen.
mcar
(42,337 posts)Thanks for this.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,374 posts)Makes a lot more sense than the wild-assed emotional pendulum swinging.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,761 posts)reading DU at all. People need to keep their shit together; there's a long way to go before this is all over.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,374 posts)Turned out to be neither -- just another news story with some new info. Another brick in the (cell) wall.
It's really good to have experts in various fields weigh in. Those are the reports I enjoy most. The "scoops" are nice, but they rarely have a lot of meat on them.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)by Mueller
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,761 posts)of the OLC memos from the '70s and the '90s. That doesn't mean he can't be indicted after he leaves office, though.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)They stole it once, they'll steal it again.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Mueller may indict if he so chooses
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,761 posts)chances are he'll stick with the OLC memos. On the other hand, it's starting to look like there is something really, really bad - so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.