... fact that Red Don is lying they go with "the government" vs saying Trump is shutting down the government.

So, somehow, in his twisted mind, their suffering makes him look and feel like a hero.

of his 'edicts'.

It is a sickness deep inside of him.

I never thought I'd see the day a federal employee would have to line up for food. Those were always the jobs that provided "security." No security with a crazy person in the White House.

And the reason is hostage taking - rule by the mob.

The reason many people took government jobs was for the financial security they offered. Its possible that a lot of people might rethink working for the government.

The regressive GOP wants people to leave government so as to kill it.

The worsening pay for teachers and the defunding of Planned Parenthood are examples of these attacks on government.

Sure it benefits Putin, but this is the vile MAGAcretin's hostage taking to prevent the Dems from running the House of Representatives.

And this is just more chaos he's intentionally creating for putin to weaken us and our government with. His claiming things with lies and accusation is what he's done to others his whole career, so putin's just using trump for distractions, and to weaken us now with from his being easily compromised.

he gets off on it. If someone can tell him that he is hurting a lot of people, as long as they aren't him, it makes him happy, or as happy as he can get.

Like all mobsters, he enjoys breaking people.

If you have no genuine good human feelings, you feel empty as a shell. So negative emotion is all there is. It becomes the only way he can feel alive.

He doesn't believe he will lose even one supporter.

And all the polls showing otherwise are 'fake' in his twisted mind

And he gets off on creating chaos and destruction

And every time a news organization picks up his Shitler Twitter feed, he gets a woody with his little mushroom dick covered in yeti pubes.

Reminds me of the typical abuser- you must love me while I beat you up.

Government by extortion when you cannot win elections.

He's lazy and expects free stuff to just be handed to him. The House is imposing discipline on him, quite possibly for the first time in his life. He's not handling it very well.

ITTMF!

And he's given credence to all the other assholes to come out from under the rocks they've been cowardly hiding under and spew their hatred....

Trying to figure out what makes the AOAA (Asshole Of All Assholes) tick is like trying to figure out the smell of the number 9.....

He's the AOAA!!!!

gaining traction. If you give in now it's obvious this is how he'll 'govern' for the time he's in office...fuck that shit. Americans aren't that stupid, hence most of us don't want this fucking wall.

and use that crisis to stay in power, grab more power, power in a capitalistic society = more wealth. Mean green is why they govern by lie, cheat and steal.

His rhetoric sounds like something the Bolsheviks used to defend communism.

argument on emotional terms. They allow him to paint it as a humanitarian border crisis, and do not call him and the rethugs out on why they did not solve this so called crisis when they controlled all 3 branches for 2 years. Even replaying his talk of radical left without saying he is radical right or is out of touch with the facts can suck the energy out of you.

100%

Trump and the Russiapublicans want the shutdown to damage government, damage faith in government, and prevent Democrats from accomplishing anything with their new majority House.

The "Vile MAGAcretin" loves the power rush. His vileness makes him a convenient tool for Putin and for the GOP, who are willing to sell the country to maintain their power.


(Yes, I'm well aware that I'm not saying anything you don't already know. It's a relief valve to say it. )

Russiapublicans - most excellent

Too bad that describes a chunk of our Senate instead of some obscure punk rock band.

Fox is the real enemy here. Without Fox’s support, the Dotard is just another tin-pot dictator. When Fox abandons him, he will fall hard and fast. His Magat supporters are Fox accolites and believe what they are told to believe. When we know how to deal with Fox we will solve our Trump problem.

Very serious shit on him. And it's got to be crystal clear proof - like Dipshit on tape. Maybe something where trump calls fox and his supporters stupid.

He loves this! Imagine the power surge going through his grease encrusted veins! This is his life’s wildest dream come true.

masses are not invested in this like we are. Sadly, I think they will eventually start thinking "enough is enough let him have his damn $ for a wall and get on with it."

Agree with someone who said Dems should start loading on things we want like full permanent DACA. Load on things he said he agreed with at some point.

Also, would love to see our side do more research on who benefits from a wall... follow the money and get it out there. There was a great post here I need to find about how the company in Canada he wants to buy steel slats from is partly owned by Russia.

You cannot reward a hostage taker

off of that? I can't see him ever giving up on it. Especially if there's a financial benefit to him or Russia.

So...do we just keep saying "...open the government first? then we will talk." Obviously, if they were gonna do that they would have already? How long can we keep doing that before the public starts blaming us?

Hate that any ideas always point back to giving him his wall.

Stop this monster

Or rather, until people start dying. At that point, we've put money for a wall over the actual lives of Americans. I hate the notion of a wall in its entirety, it's useless. If Trump holds out though, people will start to die. When it becomes "Wall money or American lives", you can bet your ass it'll be considered our fault. Almost everyone knows the Wall is a silly idea, but when a hostage-taker starts killing the hostages en-masse, you don't refuse demands and wait for him to kill them all, you take him out by any means necessary. If we were to continue to hold out and allow more death, it -would- be our fault.

The wall can be sorted later. When American lives are on the line, you give in. The second Americans die to the shutdown, it's on us morally and ethically to give in to the wall.

Who because of the shutdown may get evicted because she has to pick chemo treatment payments over paying her rent.

If you take all emotion out of this completely, it strikes me that he is actually in a better position as far as negotiation. He can just keep asking for his money for the wall and add on enticements. We on the other hand, are just saying no.

Just brainstorming here. No good answer I guess. Although asking for the moon and maybe cut the wall $$ he wants ???

Heaven forbid, no matter who people blame there be a plane crash.

Look at how many people even here on DU who are posting "Never give in, don't give him the wall." There may be a few willing to hold true to that, but I'm almost certain its not their lives on the line. When it becomes personal, when it's -their- families lives on the line, how many do you think will continue to say "No wall"? How many DUer sons, daughters, mothers or fathers are people willing to sacrifice, including their own?

From a purely practical standpoint, Trump has us over (his) wall. If we cave, he gets his wall, government reopens, everyone's happy. If we don't cave, people start to die and the deaths will be blamed on "not giving Trump a stupid wall." Personally, I think the best option is to "give" him the wall and then stall it out bureaucratically as long as possible. Otherwise, the Senate Republicans themselves may be able to pull the "Constitutional crisis" card and just start acting near-unilaterally with Trump's help (I think.)

As you said, "if you take all emotion out of this completely", which is the default Republican position.

won't care. If he can get a pic of 10 ft of it he will be happy. But we can't forget the issue of compensating land owners so that will take forever and there will surely be lawsuits. I saw an estimate based on what we paid people from 2006-2009 and it was $300k per mile. If he gets 5.6 b that's 18.6 miles just for payts to land owners. Throw in construction costs ....

Permits need permitting, land owners need compensation which will further stall it out if not actively then in the courts... If we played it properly not a stretch of it would -actually- be built, at least not within the two years we've got left of Trump. Once we get a Dem in the office, it would be much easier to just negate the whole thing minus whatever little progress actually comes about of it.

A good first step...news conference..."We would like to see a written plan...exactly where are you proposing construction, how many private citizen land owners are involved, what kind of structure, and WHO are the supply vendors?". If we pin him down and he points to that Canadian steel slat company that is partly owned by the Russians...pop the popcorn

He knew he was on multiple cameras and that it would go viral. It was all an act. He had a couple of days to come up with his lameass "I was the victim here" BS. His Catholic school horde surrounding him didn't help his cause. And they were there for their little reich-wing anti-woman protest, so you know they're haters.

Those black guys were in the wrong too for inciting the whole mess.

Link to tweet