General Discussion

Atticus

(15,124 posts) Wed Feb 20, 2019, 08:21 PM Feb 2019

"High crimes and misdemeanors" is the vague constitutional standard for

impeachable offenses. It is often said that "high crimes and misdemeanors" means whatever Congress says it means. Clearly, a president need not be guilty of a prosecutable offense in order to be impeached, convicted and removed from office. When the Senate, acting as the jury, votes, there is no requirement that their "verdict" be unanimous and there is no "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement.

I believe everything just above is true and accurate.

So what?

Well, it seems to me that there is a very deliberate effort afoot in much of the media to conflate "impeachable" with "prosecutable". The public is being condiitioned to conclude---erroneously---that unless the Special Counsel indicts Trump or, at the least, names him as an unindicted co-conspirator, he should not---CAN not---be impeached.

Am I mistaken?

2 replies

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"High crimes and misdemeanors" is the vague constitutional standard for (Original Post) Atticus Feb 2019 OP

I think that's true loyalsister Feb 2019 #1

This is one situation where going back to the original intent of the founders makes sense. Blue_true Feb 2019 #2

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)

1. I think that's true

Reply to Atticus (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2019, 08:36 PM

Feb 2019

Clinton's impeachment came down to exactly that. There was no doubt he lied under oath. The question was whether it was an offense serious enough to remove him from office.

The problem we have is do we trust THIS Senate to set a standard for impeachment. I think there is reason to suspect that they may be willing to accept an argument that Trump's offenses are not serious enough to be remove him from office. It's a risk that I am not sure would be wise to take.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)

2. This is one situation where going back to the original intent of the founders makes sense.

Reply to Atticus (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2019, 09:17 PM

Feb 2019

For what I understand high crimes were treason and raiding the public purse (or should I have written "obvious raiding", because people like Franklin were skillful at directing a decent slice of public business to themselves, family or friends.

Misdemeanors were cases where a high officeholder willfully and knowingly violated laws, with a pure intent from the beginning to violate laws. The impeachments of Johnson (a suspect southerner who fell into the Presidency after Lincoln was assinated) and Clinton (a victim of a zealous and partisan prosecutor and a morally bankrupt republican House majority) were more political than they were in accordance to the high crimes and misdemeanors standard.

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