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MY take after listening to Rachel tonite: Barr is shutting down Mueller. (Original Post) triron Feb 2019 OP
Rosenberg is one of the sharpest legal talking heads on TV. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2019 #1
What can Trump do for Barr? Turbineguy Feb 2019 #2
Maybe Russia has compromat on Barr. McCamy Taylor Feb 2019 #4
She seemed a bit restrained. Matter of fact? Sober? Deflated? I dunno, maybe Ninga Feb 2019 #3
Rachel is wrong. It was a shit show with her stupid fearmongering and conspiracy theories manor321 Feb 2019 #5
I tend to agree... Eyeball_Kid Feb 2019 #14
Call me crazy but I've been thinking from the get go that Barr auditioned for the job so he UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #6
We can Rebl2 Feb 2019 #7
Interesting California_Republic Feb 2019 #8
I don't know about quick but I feel most of them want him GONE. Maybe this is also providing UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #11
I'm sure they'd rather it be done NOW than wrapping up in Sep '20!! oldsoftie Feb 2019 #33
My hope too as it seems Barr appointment was coordinated with Rosenstein wishstar Feb 2019 #9
Thank you Republican Deep State !!! UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #10
Reminds me Corgigal Feb 2019 #22
I'm wondering if the press conference last week shanny Feb 2019 #26
I've been entertaining EXACTLY that idea. tosh Feb 2019 #40
If Barr does this, it will not end well for him. nt Progressive Jones Feb 2019 #12
Nope. I suspect that as soon as Barr is actually breifed on the facta of this case, Volaris Feb 2019 #13
I agree with you oldsoftie Feb 2019 #34
No. Mueller submits his (political) report. It gives sufficient cause to WheelWalker Feb 2019 #15
Hope you are correct even though I have grave reservations. triron Feb 2019 #16
Rachel can be an alarmist and fear mongerer BluegrassDem Feb 2019 #17
That's where we disagree sharply. Remember she is a Rhodes scholar. triron Feb 2019 #19
Rhodes Scholar has nothing to due with instincts and forecasting Awsi Dooger Feb 2019 #29
I never said she wasn't smart! She's very intellectual... BluegrassDem Feb 2019 #32
I think sometimes she deliberately takes pnwest Feb 2019 #30
I don't know MontanaFarmer Feb 2019 #18
We will soon see won't we (if the reports are accurate)? triron Feb 2019 #20
She's just guessing. I remember she freaked out months ago, too, pnwmom Feb 2019 #21
Why does a political appointee moondust Feb 2019 #23
Because the Attorney General of the US is not your local land use commissioner? Hekate Feb 2019 #25
He's still a political appointee. moondust Feb 2019 #27
I admire your confidence... shanny Feb 2019 #28
Don't forget John Mitchell, Nixon's AG. SharonAnn Feb 2019 #31
Indeed. Good pick-up. shanny Feb 2019 #36
Because that's what's written in the Special Counsel DeminPennswoods Feb 2019 #35
Thank you for being cogent and concise ... Hekate Feb 2019 #39
My take after listening to Nicolle W's panel today: this investigation cannot be killed... Hekate Feb 2019 #24
It sounds like the investigation has been spread far and wide and if Mueller goes, Plan B begins. Vinca Feb 2019 #37
I want Junior and the rest of the whole damn family to fry........ a kennedy Feb 2019 #38

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
1. Rosenberg is one of the sharpest legal talking heads on TV.
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 10:57 PM
Feb 2019

And he has personal knowledge of how these things work and of the people handling them. I trust what he says more than Rachel's occasional Debbie-Downer routines.

Ninga

(8,275 posts)
3. She seemed a bit restrained. Matter of fact? Sober? Deflated? I dunno, maybe
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 10:59 PM
Feb 2019

I'm projecting my feelings......

I feel crappy about the entire Mueller thing.

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
5. Rachel is wrong. It was a shit show with her stupid fearmongering and conspiracy theories
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:01 PM
Feb 2019

An AG cannot shutdown a SC investigation, so that is not what is happening.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,432 posts)
14. I tend to agree...
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:31 PM
Feb 2019

Maddow hedged her bets tonight. This, IMO, was a rare departure from her usual tight reasoning. Throughout her presentation, I was waiting for evidence, even qualified hearsay, to corroborate her hypothesis. Aside from the time line, I heard nothing else. Rosenberg made more sense.

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
6. Call me crazy but I've been thinking from the get go that Barr auditioned for the job so he
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:06 PM
Feb 2019

could get it and protect his good buddy Mueller. Also perhaps the Republican establishment has really had just enough of this bullshit that rump offers. Perhaps Barr was encouraged by top R's to fish for this job.

This is what I'm hoping for since it would be the best scenario.

California_Republic

(1,826 posts)
8. Interesting
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:09 PM
Feb 2019

Interesting. This process is just going to weigh so heavy in 2020.

So you’re thinking the Rs are saying better finish it quick

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
11. I don't know about quick but I feel most of them want him GONE. Maybe this is also providing
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:20 PM
Feb 2019

a false sense of security for rump...meanwhile the fucking axe is about to fall.

oldsoftie

(12,558 posts)
33. I'm sure they'd rather it be done NOW than wrapping up in Sep '20!!
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 07:06 AM
Feb 2019

Because whatever happens now will be forgotten by '20 by the average voter. Unless trump actually gets charged with something.

wishstar

(5,270 posts)
9. My hope too as it seems Barr appointment was coordinated with Rosenstein
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:18 PM
Feb 2019

and we know Rosenstein has protected Mueller and somehow fended off getting fired by Trump.

It's possible Mueller's wrap up could include some more indictments and transfer of ongoing pending cases to other jurisdictions and then leave evidence of Trump's complicity and obstruction for the Congress to deal with through impeachment.

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
22. Reminds me
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:50 AM
Feb 2019

of watching the tv show, The Americans, but without such high stakes. Is Barr a good witch or a bad witch?

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
26. I'm wondering if the press conference last week
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:24 AM
Feb 2019

with the clearly uncomfortable Barr in the front row sparked a bit of an epiphany...

We know Barr from way back, and his inclination to protect the preznit...but maybe he can see now that this preznit is not worth protecting.

Isn't there a bridge too far for these people? (she asks plaintively).

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
13. Nope. I suspect that as soon as Barr is actually breifed on the facta of this case,
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:28 PM
Feb 2019

He won't go near Trump's version of a Saturday Night Massacre, not even a little bit.

WheelWalker

(8,955 posts)
15. No. Mueller submits his (political) report. It gives sufficient cause to
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:41 PM
Feb 2019

impeach and convict. Half of this DU community is Jones'n to get moving on removal of the puspocket. That's what his report will do... move toward removal from office. The web of criminal investigations and indictments will continue to the utter ruin of all traitors, crooks and thieves.

triron

(22,007 posts)
16. Hope you are correct even though I have grave reservations.
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:09 AM
Feb 2019

We may soon know much more. Like Rachel implied; is it a coincidence that this happens so soon after
Barr took office? I don't believe in this kind of coincidence.

 

BluegrassDem

(1,693 posts)
17. Rachel can be an alarmist and fear mongerer
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:22 AM
Feb 2019

She is borderline conspiracy theorist. I love her and she is whip smart, but she does her fair share of sending out false alarms and hair on fire topics that don't pan out to be true. More than likely, Mueller was waiting for Barr to take office before finalizing the report. I read back in Nov or Dec that mid-February was when Mueller would act.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
29. Rhodes Scholar has nothing to due with instincts and forecasting
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:50 AM
Feb 2019

Rachel Maddow is one of the worst I have ever seen at weighing variables toward outcomes. It is a completely different skill set than being able to backtrack and piece together political shenanigans. Throughout this process she has drastically inflated the likelihood of significant charges from Mueller sticking to Trump.

It is par for the course for her. During election years she has no clue how to interpret polling data from various states and demographics. It lends to one smug-grinned inept conclusion after another, like when she waved a preposterous South Carolina poll in the air and exclaimed just imagine how much Hillary is winning by elsewhere, if she is neck and neck in South Carolina.

That type of thing does more harm than good. It lends to all the vote rigging claims here and elsewhere. Now Rachel is moody and finally beginning to recognize that all her Russia research and uncovering may have been great journalism, but the burden was simply too great to damage Donald Trump, given the realities of our political system. Anyone with a competent big picture grasp would have understood that years ago. But Rachel is a day-to-day type, and as I've emphasized that is the worst possible mindset to project accurately. When Rachel finds something new on Wednesday she can't wait for her show and the game changer info. Meanwhile, absolutely nothing has changed.

Her contributions on this matter will be immensely appreciated by scholars and historians decades and centuries from now toward what actually happened circa 2016. But in today's world it is mostly trivia. Trump can accomplish more with one fear-based lie than Rachel with a year's worth of factual investigating. That is the sad reality.

 

BluegrassDem

(1,693 posts)
32. I never said she wasn't smart! She's very intellectual...
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 05:15 AM
Feb 2019

but she always assumes the worst and the worst case scenario. I don't know how many elections would be stolen from the Dems due to voting fraud yet the Dems won. Yes, Repugs are suppressing the vote, but she is an alarmist and Debbie downer for the most part. I've started watching Chris Cuomo lately.

pnwest

(3,266 posts)
30. I think sometimes she deliberately takes
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:57 AM
Feb 2019

The worst case scenario approach so that those of us who do fear the worst can hear someone allay those fears.

MontanaFarmer

(630 posts)
18. I don't know
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:23 AM
Feb 2019

But I don't think there's any chance Mueller was delivering this report to that 2-bit hack Matt Whitaker. I think the timing perhaps isn't coincidental at all, but not in the way Rachel was insinuating. Perhaps Mueller WAITED for Barr, knowing he'd handle it properly, where Whitaker would bury it.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
21. She's just guessing. I remember she freaked out months ago, too,
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:47 AM
Feb 2019

the last time a prediction like this was made.

But worst case scenario, if Barr did shut it down, I agree with her: Mueller probably has been planning for this ever since his first day. But don't expect him to announce it.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
23. Why does a political appointee
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:10 AM
Feb 2019

have control over who and what Congress and the American people get to see of an investigation into wrongdoing by the person who appointed him/her?

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
25. Because the Attorney General of the US is not your local land use commissioner?
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:17 AM
Feb 2019

What a weird question that is.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
27. He's still a political appointee.
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:24 AM
Feb 2019

What if Dump had appointed somebody like Rudy or Dershowitz to be AG? Would you trust them not to protect their godfather? Maybe somebody other than a political appointee should control who sees what of a special counsel investigation.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
28. I admire your confidence...
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:29 AM
Feb 2019

Particularly after the likes of Meese, Gonzales, Sessions...

It is not as if the office magically conveys integrity on the holder, is it? I mean, what a weird idea!

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
35. Because that's what's written in the Special Counsel
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 07:48 AM
Feb 2019

statutue and regulation. The SCO is mandated to deliver a confidential report to the AG. The AG is mandated to give a "brief" written report to Congress on the SCO findings.

Remember the context of this law is the aftermath of the Starr Report that read like a soft porn novel. It's what lead to the Special Prosecuor law that was in place since Watergate not being renewed by Congress. The idea of confidentiality is that no innocent bystander will be publically named and shamed by association with the guilty party(ies).

Since this is the first application of the new law, no one knows what "brief" means. My guess is that at the very least, it will be an executive summary type document on the order of the public version of the yearly national security threat assessment.

Further, I believe that the judge overseeing Mueller's grand jury will follow the Watergate precedent and allow the GJ testimony to be released to provide Congress a roadmap to hearings and further investigations.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
24. My take after listening to Nicolle W's panel today: this investigation cannot be killed...
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:11 AM
Feb 2019

...nor can its many spinoffs. New York is not the only state that has cases to work on.

Sure, they can send Mueller home, but starting with Obama and continuing on to McCabe, the Russia investigation was designed to be something that could not be killed and buried.

As for Trump himself, McCabe/Mueller did not open a second, separate, investigation on him -- Trump's name was added to the existing Russia investigation, which had all the tools necessary to proceed with no need to ask permission for more.

When Nicolle asked Frank Figluzzi about separate aspects being separate investigations (like the obstruction charge that is sure to come), he said, "No. It is all one big, fat, investigation."

None of us here is going to be particularly happy with the slow pace of subsequent revelations -- some will be secret, and none of it will be easy to pry from Trump's fingers-- but the Democrats have the House now and they have subpoena power.

Vinca

(50,279 posts)
37. It sounds like the investigation has been spread far and wide and if Mueller goes, Plan B begins.
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 08:41 AM
Feb 2019

I know I'll feel a whole lot better if major indictments are issued in the next few days. There's no way Junior isn't guilty.

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