Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:39 PM Feb 2019

What is wrong with a 10 cent tax per bag on plastic bags in supermarkets?

I think it is a good idea. It might encourage lazy me to get serious about recycling those plastic bags instead of throwing them out after one use .

The CT state legislature is discussing this now and some folks view it as a regressive tax altho I can't see how.

I think it is a good idea and don't know why in the world anyone would object.

Tell me if you do and why?

161 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What is wrong with a 10 cent tax per bag on plastic bags in supermarkets? (Original Post) CTyankee Feb 2019 OP
They charge for bags at Aldi's Siwsan Feb 2019 #1
My S and S has cloth bags for sale cheap right in the supermarket. CTyankee Feb 2019 #2
10 cents crazycatlady Feb 2019 #17
One time I forgot my bags, in the car Siwsan Feb 2019 #20
see I stopped using shopping carts crazycatlady Feb 2019 #24
LOL. I have teenage boys Bettie Feb 2019 #49
I bring my own, large cloth bags that I've had for years. llmart Feb 2019 #3
We have to pay $0.10 for bags in California, but they aren't the cheap plastic bags that you find at politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2019 #131
My town just banned plastic bags crazycatlady Feb 2019 #4
I use the reusable bags. watoos Feb 2019 #5
We banned all plastic shopping bags at the beginning of the year malaise Feb 2019 #6
In France, everyone...EVERYONE..brings in bags to shop. You get used to it. CurtEastPoint Feb 2019 #11
I actually remember a time before all these plastic shopping bags malaise Feb 2019 #16
I was a bagger and carry out at grocery in high school in the late 70's and madinmaryland Feb 2019 #23
Precisely malaise Feb 2019 #28
There is an art to packing grocery bags. Granted, when I did it madinmaryland Feb 2019 #38
Hehehehhe malaise Feb 2019 #48
I know! KT2000 Feb 2019 #41
I was a union salt at walmart for awhile Rorey Feb 2019 #84
I can see that KT2000 Feb 2019 #85
Ding ding we have a winner malaise Feb 2019 #119
Yeah - I have a couple of insulated bags csziggy Feb 2019 #90
Letterman always had the winner KT2000 Feb 2019 #37
Don't recall that, but we actually took the groceries out to to the madinmaryland Feb 2019 #45
The commissary aboard Camp LeJeune. Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #52
I was born in 1980 crazycatlady Feb 2019 #99
Late 1970s. madinmaryland Feb 2019 #125
when I was younger, my parents made me bag everything crazycatlady Feb 2019 #126
Walmart is doing this in my town. LibinMo Mar 2019 #159
My supermarket is bag-yer-own-stuff. But, sometimes, the kids MineralMan Feb 2019 #91
I watched an American woman scream for a sack in a Paris market. displacedtexan Feb 2019 #62
Rwanda and Kenya both have bans lamsmy Feb 2019 #117
I found the same thing GP6971 Feb 2019 #142
Same when we visited Antigua. Since we were vacationing, phylny Feb 2019 #143
These islands are way too small for all the plastic malaise Feb 2019 #144
everything else in the store has to be paid for so what's the big deal? nt msongs Feb 2019 #7
My only concern is that I have arthritis in my lower back and several lighter bags are better for CTyankee Feb 2019 #9
Yes, there are a few groups that this hurts. LisaM Feb 2019 #14
We have a separate little room next to the supermarket for recycling plastic stuff but there is CTyankee Feb 2019 #18
Not really SoCalNative Feb 2019 #105
That's true, but their cities are FAR more walkable and they have more stores in neighborhoods. LisaM Feb 2019 #110
what about paper bags? crazycatlady Feb 2019 #26
that's so much better and I think I would be more likely to use them. CTyankee Feb 2019 #30
I alert them that I am OLD and can't deal with heavy bags elfin Feb 2019 #54
We did a shopping trip at a more expensive store recently because they closed their self checkouts. LisaM Feb 2019 #57
I like the image of shopping before easy refrigeration and heavy use of food preservatives. Blue_true Feb 2019 #67
Cloth bags are much easier to carry. athena Feb 2019 #100
Yes. I have a few of those. I'll round them up for my next shopping trip... CTyankee Feb 2019 #102
I use a 2-wheeled cart Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2019 #133
The grocery store I go to takes back your plastic bags and recycles them, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2019 #8
That's a good idea for me. CTyankee Feb 2019 #10
Target does the same thing RockaFowler Feb 2019 #96
They're not really being recycled, though. athena Feb 2019 #103
The bags I bring back to this store are mostly the bags that my newspaper comes in The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2019 #104
You're doing the right thing. athena Feb 2019 #108
There is some actual plastic recycling going on, like polywood, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2019 #112
That's down-cycling. athena Feb 2019 #120
I'd be cool with a dollar deposit on a plastic bag Brother Buzz Feb 2019 #12
I use canvas shopping bags when I go for groceries. Aristus Feb 2019 #13
We did a year ago and I STILL BigmanPigman Feb 2019 #15
My city (New Haven fer god's sake) won't take plastic supermarket bags in the recycle bin. CTyankee Feb 2019 #22
the dept store I worked for had plastic bag recycling behind customer service crazycatlady Feb 2019 #29
That is what happens a lot and people don't realize it. BigmanPigman Feb 2019 #33
My city in California will not recycle supermarket bags because China doesn't want them. Glimmer of Hope Feb 2019 #51
It's been about two years here in California Codeine Feb 2019 #19
At least if you use for kitty litter, that's one less OTHER bag you didn't use :) (nt) mr_lebowski Feb 2019 #56
I always save my plastic bags to be used for kitty litter Poiuyt Feb 2019 #65
My stores in pay 15 cents a bag for paper but charge customers a nickel. Qutzupalotl Feb 2019 #21
California has it with some local areas being even more strict JI7 Feb 2019 #25
There's a large health food supermarket near us that doesn't even have plastic bags eleny Feb 2019 #27
We have used the same canvas bags for nearly 30 years. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #31
We have it here in California, and many people bring their own cloth bags. Works out quite well still_one Feb 2019 #32
You can't get plastic bags -- only paper ... Auggie Feb 2019 #34
So. Anyway I bring my own bags. Plastic is biodegradable still_one Feb 2019 #68
We charge 5 cents in my town and it works great. No plastic bags either. jalan48 Feb 2019 #35
In the UK we have been charged for a few years BritVic Feb 2019 #36
I have these little bags that I keep in my purse kimbutgar Feb 2019 #39
Who gets the money and what is done with it? Ferrets are Cool Feb 2019 #40
Our state lege is pretty progressive but like most of them they are concerned with their own CTyankee Feb 2019 #53
I think in most states, the state gets the money crazycatlady Feb 2019 #75
Where I live you can buy a bag for 10c. Kablooie Feb 2019 #42
Lived in Europe during much of my childhood, procon Feb 2019 #43
I think it's a GREAT idea. BigDemVoter Feb 2019 #44
Seattle here. maxsolomon Feb 2019 #46
They already have a ten cent tax per bag in california KWR65 Feb 2019 #47
It's a regressive tax. Adrahil Feb 2019 #50
I don't understand why, though. How do they disproportionately impact poor people? CTyankee Feb 2019 #55
If you're counting every penny... Adrahil Feb 2019 #58
But the 10 cents a bag can be a one time charge if all the plastic bags are stuffed in to one plasti CTyankee Feb 2019 #61
You can buy a reusable bag for $1 crazycatlady Feb 2019 #69
I agree about it being a regressive tax that will impact poor people; area51 Feb 2019 #81
True loyalsister Feb 2019 #95
The people using public transportation to food shop, PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #111
Try carrying multiple objects using a wheelchair loyalsister Feb 2019 #136
So how exactly does a person in a wheelchair get to and from the grocery store? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #139
Since you have not been "wheelchair bound" loyalsister Feb 2019 #141
It would help me remember to bring in reusable bags. Or how about a discount for folks who bring UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #59
Nothing. Snackshack Feb 2019 #60
We've had that for awhile in CA stopwastingmymoney Feb 2019 #63
I think it's a great idea, but I always bring my own bags and our store gives us extra fuel points Luciferous Feb 2019 #64
what a great idea. My store also has a gas station and I could use an extra discount on gas! CTyankee Feb 2019 #66
We have it in CA rufus dog Feb 2019 #70
I collect TJ's bags crazycatlady Feb 2019 #71
LOL, I never noticed rufus dog Feb 2019 #72
as you see the various states crazycatlady Feb 2019 #74
It does help one to remember to bring them into the store shanti Feb 2019 #135
Seattle hasn't had plastic grocery bags for years. nolabear Feb 2019 #73
Used my own cloth bags for 20 years. Have some in each car. But sinkingfeeling Feb 2019 #76
It's a good idea. sharedvalues Feb 2019 #77
Our supermarket charges 10 cents for paper and has no plastic bags. LAS14 Feb 2019 #78
We have a 5c charge Meowmee Feb 2019 #79
We had a city ordinance for plastic bag charges for awhile, but the Tx Lege (Repubs) decided that Liberal In Texas Feb 2019 #80
Nothing. Polly Hennessey Feb 2019 #82
Austin, TX. Texasgal Feb 2019 #83
I'm currently visiting the UK and Ireland. cwydro Feb 2019 #86
There is talk that the might well ban the cheap plastic ones soon. OnDoutside Feb 2019 #138
Late to the conversation Revanchist Feb 2019 #87
IDK, haven't seen what is being proposed. CTyankee Feb 2019 #88
They started doing that last month in the city where I work, and I think it has worked great fishwax Feb 2019 #89
Its not regressive if it causes people to use alternatives. ooky Feb 2019 #92
A tax that will only hit the poor hard. It's good for the kerry-is-my-prez Feb 2019 #93
But as I said earlier in this thread it is only a one time charge. You can save the bags and bring CTyankee Feb 2019 #94
Aldi is a discount grocery store crazycatlady Feb 2019 #113
The poor can't figure out how to recycle bags? Iggo Mar 2019 #160
Regressive in the sense that it would likely hit lower income people more namahage Feb 2019 #97
But again, if you use a bus to get around you can have your bags at your door on your way out. CTyankee Feb 2019 #98
So does CT have door-to-door bus service? namahage Feb 2019 #116
I never needed one but I know that there is definitely bus service from downtown New haven CTyankee Feb 2019 #130
Have you ever tried to walk even two blocks with plastic bags athena Feb 2019 #107
Would that every poor person were as forward-thinking as you. namahage Feb 2019 #121
Poor people also need a clean environment. athena Feb 2019 #124
No one is disputing the fact that reusables namahage Feb 2019 #127
What bothers me about some arguing the "regressive tax" issue is the assumption that all CTyankee Feb 2019 #145
But the effort to do what you say namahage Feb 2019 #146
It is not possible for us to differentiate between poor and nonpoor when dealing with supermarket CTyankee Feb 2019 #147
Who said I object? namahage Feb 2019 #148
It would be ideal if cloth bags were distributed to everyone, well off and poor alike. CTyankee Feb 2019 #149
It's not quite accurate to say that by simply giving everyone the same thing, namahage Mar 2019 #150
All good and valid points. CTyankee Mar 2019 #155
Our local thrift store does that, they make them out of old janterry Mar 2019 #152
They do this in England-- You have to buy the plastic bag. dawg day Feb 2019 #101
It is like that already in California CountAllVotes Feb 2019 #106
Paper bags by volume are worse than plastic bags in landfills. stopbush Feb 2019 #109
The town I shop in across the river in Vermont banned bags. After you get in the habit Vinca Feb 2019 #114
I live in Santa Fe, and several years ago PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2019 #115
In Abuquerque, Vitamin Cottage grocery supplies NO BAGS womanofthehills Feb 2019 #118
I ordered those tough blue Skidmore Feb 2019 #122
I hate it BlueintheSTL Feb 2019 #123
When I lived in Germany years ago stores charged for a plastic bag. Almost everyone Solly Mack Feb 2019 #128
Works well in my locality, only it is presented as a purchase price, not a tax.If I forget my own... Hekate Feb 2019 #129
Tax policy to guide social decisions for the good of all. Turbineguy Feb 2019 #132
Paper bags are so useful. GulfCoast66 Feb 2019 #134
We've had a Plastic Bag charge in Ireland since 2002, and it works really well. It reduced the OnDoutside Feb 2019 #137
Italy had it back in the 1980's. fierywoman Feb 2019 #140
Great thread CTYankee malaise Mar 2019 #151
Only if they use the tax to a good use randr Mar 2019 #153
The bag tax is being advanced because CT is in dire straits with a huge deficit. CTyankee Mar 2019 #156
I support the tax, but I do use all of my plastic bags for scooping cat litter. femmedem Mar 2019 #154
yep CountAllVotes Mar 2019 #157
Great idea! Thanks! n/t femmedem Mar 2019 #158
I bought them on ebay.com CountAllVotes Mar 2019 #161

Siwsan

(26,263 posts)
1. They charge for bags at Aldi's
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:40 PM
Feb 2019

They have both paper and plastic. Not sure what they cost because I always bring cloth bags.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
2. My S and S has cloth bags for sale cheap right in the supermarket.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:42 PM
Feb 2019

I really should use them or just recycle mine ( we do have a bunch of them saved).

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
17. 10 cents
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:05 PM
Feb 2019

I was there today and for the first time I didn't see plastic bags.

I also see a lot of people carrying their groceries out loose or in boxes.

Siwsan

(26,263 posts)
20. One time I forgot my bags, in the car
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:07 PM
Feb 2019

I just wheeled the cart out, opened the car door, loaded the bags, and then returned the cart for my quarter.

I do most of my grocery shopping at Aldi's. LOVE that place.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
24. see I stopped using shopping carts
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:11 PM
Feb 2019

I noticed that my Fitbit does not count my steps if I'm pushing something. So I now avoid shopping carts like the plague.

I just carry my groceries around in boxes at Aldi. Baskets everywhere else. I do about 90% of my food shopping at Aldi.

llmart

(15,540 posts)
3. I bring my own, large cloth bags that I've had for years.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:43 PM
Feb 2019

They're originally from Whole Foods and I keep them in the trunk of my car.

I thought I read somewhere that Kroger was phasing out plastic bags altogether, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
131. We have to pay $0.10 for bags in California, but they aren't the cheap plastic bags that you find at
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:07 PM
Feb 2019

Walmart in other states. They are a very thick, heavy duty plastic and last a very long time. I have lots of them and I think they are worth it. The reason I have so many is that occasionally, I drop by the store and I forgot to put some in the car. If it keeps them out of the oceans, and particularly the cheap, thin, free ones which break on you when you're walking from your car to your front door, I have no problem with it. When they first announced the policy, I thought it was going to be much worse than it's turned out to be. I thought they were going to charge us for those cheap ones that break, or tear on your way out the store to your car. But these are much more durable, and I can use them for lots of things.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
4. My town just banned plastic bags
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:44 PM
Feb 2019

Effective 1/1/19. HOwever, all of the grocery stores are not in our town boundaries.

That said, at the library, boro hall, and several local businesses, they are giving away free cloth bags with the town's logo on them to anyone who wants them. You can get reusable bags at grocery stores for $1.

If you (generic) haven't already switched to reusables, you should. Some stores even give you a discount for using them.

malaise

(269,004 posts)
6. We banned all plastic shopping bags at the beginning of the year
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:45 PM
Feb 2019

Stores were allowed to finish their stock.
It's amazing to see people walking with their own bags or using boxes.

malaise

(269,004 posts)
16. I actually remember a time before all these plastic shopping bags
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:03 PM
Feb 2019

People are adjusting rather well.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
23. I was a bagger and carry out at grocery in high school in the late 70's and
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:09 PM
Feb 2019

all we had were paper bags. That was when they actually taught the kids how to bag groceries. I can still pack a bag faster than most kids working now.

malaise

(269,004 posts)
28. Precisely
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:12 PM
Feb 2019

I am often amazed at packing these days - not the speed but the thoughtlessness in what they pack where.
Paper bags are back.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
38. There is an art to packing grocery bags. Granted, when I did it
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:25 PM
Feb 2019

There were no scanners, but even I can do it faster than just nearly any of the kids (though some are in their 40’s or 50s).

Now I have to go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.

KT2000

(20,577 posts)
41. I know!
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:30 PM
Feb 2019

I just wish the baggers were trained to not put heavy stuff on top of the bread or fresh fruits and vegetables.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
84. I was a union salt at walmart for awhile
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:37 PM
Feb 2019

I found ways to amuse myself. A lot of customers acted like I wasn't even a person. Sometimes I'd make comments just to see if they were listening. One of my favorite's was telling them that I put their bread on the bottom to save room. It was fun seeing their reactions, always delayed.

(I didn't really put their bread on the bottom.)

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
90. Yeah - I have a couple of insulated bags
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 02:26 PM
Feb 2019

And almost every single time I have to ASK that the baggers put our frozen and/or cold items in those bags. They also tend to scatter similar items across several bags which makes it harder to put things up when I get home. I don't get how stupid the baggers are to not get it.

On the other hand, Publix hires mentally and physically challenged people as baggers and they tend to the best ones, taking extra care to put like items together and the cold things in the insulated bags. I suspect that the managers at Publix actually train those baggers while they expect the high school and college students (the "normals&quot who are hired as baggers to know how to do the job.

I mostly take my re-usable bags but sometimes have to ask for paper ones. I use paper bags to line my garbage cans - no plastic in those, either - and since I am so diligent about taking the re-usable bags with me I sometimes run low on paper bags.

KT2000

(20,577 posts)
37. Letterman always had the winner
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:25 PM
Feb 2019

of the grocery baggers competition on his show. Hope you saw those bits because Letterman was a bagger too.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
45. Don't recall that, but we actually took the groceries out to to the
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:34 PM
Feb 2019

Customer’s car. Less than 5% tipped.

When is the last time a grocery store would pack and take the groceries out to you car and put it in your trunk? 40 years.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
52. The commissary aboard Camp LeJeune.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:45 PM
Feb 2019

Your groceries are bagged, taken to your car and put where you want them. These people are not paid and live off your tips. We tip them $5 for bagging and $5 for taking them to our car. Plastic bags should be banned everywhere.

LibinMo

(533 posts)
159. Walmart is doing this in my town.
Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:41 PM
Mar 2019

Order online-$25 min-credit card isn't charged until pickup. You park in designated space and they bring your groceries to your car. No tipping allowed. I hate going in Walmart. I was very skeptical that this would work but we've used it several times now and it's great.
Mr Lib is 83 and has dementia so this has solved a very big problem for us. The store is less than 10 minutes from here and he enjoys the car ride. I think some areas have free home delivery as well but I'm not ready for that.

MineralMan

(146,309 posts)
91. My supermarket is bag-yer-own-stuff. But, sometimes, the kids
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 02:32 PM
Feb 2019

from the local high school come in and bag groceries, hoping for donations to whatever they're raising money for. I let the kids bag my groceries. Once. After that experience, I just say, "No, thanks. I'll bag my own." The loaf of sliced sourdough bread does NOT go in the bag first, kids. Nope.

displacedtexan

(15,696 posts)
62. I watched an American woman scream for a sack in a Paris market.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:02 PM
Feb 2019

Of course, the French heard sac when the woman said sack, and they all assured her that they didn't sell bags. Hilarity ensued... but not for the American woman.

And that was over 20 years ago.

We have so many reusable bags now that they're getting out of hand.

GP6971

(31,159 posts)
142. I found the same thing
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 06:23 PM
Feb 2019

in the Netherlands...took us by surprise the first time, but we got used to it and turned out to be very convenient.

phylny

(8,380 posts)
143. Same when we visited Antigua. Since we were vacationing,
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 06:41 PM
Feb 2019

we had to buy reusable bags for the week, but just left them in the rental for the next people.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
9. My only concern is that I have arthritis in my lower back and several lighter bags are better for
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:49 PM
Feb 2019

me than fewer, heavier bags. So i would have to have many more reusables.

It's a real struggle for me to carry heavier full bags from the car to the house. I simply can't lift too much...

LisaM

(27,811 posts)
14. Yes, there are a few groups that this hurts.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:02 PM
Feb 2019

Among other things, the bills assume that all people who shop have cars, and can just keep a supply of bags in the back or in the trunk. I generally do my shopping by bus or on foot. Unless I plan ahead, I don't have the bags I need before I go to the store. I try, I really do, but it's still not a perfect system.

Our stores do no accept plastic bags for recycling. I wish they did, but then I wish Washington state had returnable bottles and we don't have that either.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
18. We have a separate little room next to the supermarket for recycling plastic stuff but there is
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:05 PM
Feb 2019

often a line and the wait for a few cents is just not worth it to most people but the most determined environmentally sane people. It would be better to get the money at the checkout.

SoCalNative

(4,613 posts)
105. Not really
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:52 PM
Feb 2019

Most in European countries do not have cars, especially in the cities, and they seem to manage just fine bringing their own bags for shopping, and have for years. It's really more about not doing "big shops" all of the time but rather buying more frequently and fresher quality on a regular basis.

LisaM

(27,811 posts)
110. That's true, but their cities are FAR more walkable and they have more stores in neighborhoods.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:05 PM
Feb 2019

Some places in the US qualify as food deserts, because there are no grocery stores within the city limits!

My nearest store is just under a mile away. This is pretty walkable for me (or I'll walk there and take the bus home), but the problem is the walk itself. I either have to cross over a 6-lane busy road with multiple types of lights and worry about ducking traffic turning right where the drivers are not looking for pedestrians (I wouldn't even consider this on a dark rainy night), or I have to take a hilly side street with no sidewalks and no street lights, not even a shoulder (I've had to jump in the ditch to get out of the way of cars before). If I had any kind of disability, walking to the store along these routes would not be an option. Further, it's hard for me to shake the memory of when I was shopping on foot and taking the bus home, and was physically assaulted by a man at the bus stop (just a few years back). I hear phantom footsteps every time I wait at that bus stop now.

In general, I support these bag laws, but it's not always as simple for all consumers. There's no one size fits all.

elfin

(6,262 posts)
54. I alert them that I am OLD and can't deal with heavy bags
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:49 PM
Feb 2019

They always accommodate.

I truly hate when my market closes all open "real" checkout aisles in favor of those self-checkouts that make using your own bags more difficult.

There s always some snag, So am switching to a bit more expensive store to avoid the hassle and the rage that they are letting people go for the bottom line costs.

LisaM

(27,811 posts)
57. We did a shopping trip at a more expensive store recently because they closed their self checkouts.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:52 PM
Feb 2019

Even better, the cashier and the bagger were both really nice and sociable. It was a pleasant shopping experience, worth paying a little bit more.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
67. I like the image of shopping before easy refrigeration and heavy use of food preservatives.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:22 PM
Feb 2019

People shopped several times per week, getting what they would eat within a couple of days. I know that with busier people today, that is somewhat impractical, but it would help with waste, including plastic waste.

athena

(4,187 posts)
100. Cloth bags are much easier to carry.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:41 PM
Feb 2019

You can sling them over your shoulder so your core is doing the lifting rather than your hands. They also don’t dig into your hands the way plastic bags do. Don’t buy the cheap heavy-plastic stuff at the store. Get some high-quality cotton bags at ecobags.com. You’ll never look back. They’re light, and they’re washable. I have seven of them in the car. They’re about eight years old and still have at least another year or two in them. I wash them every two weeks with the rest of the laundry.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,346 posts)
133. I use a 2-wheeled cart
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:17 PM
Feb 2019

Got tired of multiple trips from the car to the house, so I bought a 2-wheeled dolly. A chest style cooler goes on first, then a large cardboard box on top of that, and the two usually hold all the groceries for 1 trip from car to kitchen.

Something like:




There are lighter duty, folding shopping carts available, too. Some have the triple wheel arrangements to make it easier to go up stairs.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,700 posts)
8. The grocery store I go to takes back your plastic bags and recycles them,
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:47 PM
Feb 2019

and gives you a 5-cent discount if you bring your own bags, or you can choose to donate that nickel to the charity of the week. I collect and save my used plastic bags in my permanent bag, so when I go grocery shopping I just dump the plastic bags in their recycling bin at the door before I start shopping.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
10. That's a good idea for me.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:53 PM
Feb 2019

My back is so bad that I have instituted the 30 minute rule in the store. I must go through the store and check out in 30 minutes or my back gives out. It take more planning so I can go thru the supermarket without crisscrossing but I inevitably leave off one or two items...it's tough getting old and arthritic...

RockaFowler

(7,429 posts)
96. Target does the same thing
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:06 PM
Feb 2019

I wish all stores would give you a discount for bringing in your own bags. It helps them as well as the environment!

athena

(4,187 posts)
103. They're not really being recycled, though.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:46 PM
Feb 2019

They’re being down-cycled. Every plastic bag you get at the store is made from virgin plastic. It’s good to recycle plastic bags, but it’s much better to bring your own bag.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,700 posts)
104. The bags I bring back to this store are mostly the bags that my newspaper comes in
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:48 PM
Feb 2019

and some bags from a few other places that only use plastic. I do bring my own bag to the grocery store.

athena

(4,187 posts)
108. You're doing the right thing.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:02 PM
Feb 2019

That’s what I do as well. But I think that the word “recycling” makes a lot of people feel good about behaviors that are bad for the environment. That’s why the plastics industry loves the word “recycling” so much.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,700 posts)
112. There is some actual plastic recycling going on, like polywood,
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:07 PM
Feb 2019

which is used to make lawn furniture and decking, and some plastics can be turned into fabrics and rugs. But I agree that we'd be better off without so damn much of it in the first place.

athena

(4,187 posts)
120. That's down-cycling.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:22 PM
Feb 2019

Most people think that when they recycle something, it gets made back into the same thing. They think they’re not hurting the environment when they accept a plastic bag or buy bottled water. Down-cycling does not reduce the demand for virgin plastic, which is why the plastics industry loves it. And the lawn furniture, polar fleece, etc., ends up sooner or later in a landfill, after depositing small particles of plastic all over the place.

On top of that, a lot of plastic just goes directly to a landfill, now that China is no longer accepting it. People should recycle, but not be fooled into thinking it’s doing all that much for the environment. As long as virgin plastic is cheaper than recycled plastic, recycling will not be a real solution to pollution.

Brother Buzz

(36,434 posts)
12. I'd be cool with a dollar deposit on a plastic bag
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:00 PM
Feb 2019

You could bring it back for a buck, or use it again. Just an idea.

Aristus

(66,371 posts)
13. I use canvas shopping bags when I go for groceries.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:00 PM
Feb 2019

I've been doing for close to fifteen years now.

So even if one of those snotty anti-environment types were to sneer (and I've actually heard this bullshit) : "Well, you know, you have to use one of those bags 300 times before there's any environmental benefit!" - I'm covered.

(I don't know where they get these numbers. Or why they'd make such an assertion; every time you use a reusable bag instead of a single-use plastic bag, that's at least one bag that isn't going to pollute the landscape or find its way into the waterways and harm marine life.)

BigmanPigman

(51,593 posts)
15. We did a year ago and I STILL
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:03 PM
Feb 2019

forget and leave my bags in the car sometimes. I recycled all the plastic bags before they switched (storage bags, freezer bags, garbage bags, etc). Like you I prefer carrying many smaller bags than a few big ones. I have recycled all the old one and newer ones too since the stores switched.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
22. My city (New Haven fer god's sake) won't take plastic supermarket bags in the recycle bin.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:08 PM
Feb 2019

You have to put them in the garbage bags! That makes no sense!

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
29. the dept store I worked for had plastic bag recycling behind customer service
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:13 PM
Feb 2019

In theory, all of the old plastic bags from returns would go there. In practice, the janitor threw them in the dumpster along with everything else.

BigmanPigman

(51,593 posts)
33. That is what happens a lot and people don't realize it.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:17 PM
Feb 2019

My school had the teachers get students to recycle all the trash but the custodian tild me that the Recycle dumpster went into the same trash truck as the non-Recyclable materials.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
19. It's been about two years here in California
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:07 PM
Feb 2019

and it’s definitely helped to curb my wastefulness. I still end up buying the 10 cent bags quite often (Mr. Forgetful) but they’re thicker than the old bags were and are more easily used for other purposes rather than just being shitcanned or used for kitty litter.

Qutzupalotl

(14,311 posts)
21. My stores in pay 15 cents a bag for paper but charge customers a nickel.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:07 PM
Feb 2019

So they lose 10 cents on every bag. They make it back in other ways, of course. (Plastic shopping bags are outlawed in Eugene, Oregon.) They have reusable bags available for sale, usually about a buck.

Something to think about as you set a cost for plastic bags — you don’t want plastic to be inadvertently cheaper to the customer than paper, or you reduce incentive.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
27. There's a large health food supermarket near us that doesn't even have plastic bags
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:12 PM
Feb 2019

You either byob or buy one of their fabric bags. So if there's was a tax on bags I'd surely be at my sewing machines making them for myself and others.

I'm ashamed to admit that I'm one of the "lazy me" folk. I do recycle the plastic at the grocery stores. But I should get my butt in gear and get sewing. Than I'd learn something new - I'd learn to sew vinyl. Tricky but not that hard. And who cares how a grocery bag looks so long as it's strong.

still_one

(92,190 posts)
32. We have it here in California, and many people bring their own cloth bags. Works out quite well
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:14 PM
Feb 2019

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:22 PM - Edit history (1)

BritVic

(262 posts)
36. In the UK we have been charged for a few years
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:22 PM
Feb 2019

10p for a reusable sturdy bag - it reduced plastic bag use by about 85%. Some stores used to give out free replacements when they eventually wore out, but now they just recycle them and you pay for a new one. I wish supermarkets would switch to paper bags, however.

kimbutgar

(21,148 posts)
39. I have these little bags that I keep in my purse
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:28 PM
Feb 2019

They fold up into these little balls And I use them all the time. I never pay for bags. It's easy todo without. I was in Arizona recently where they gave me a bag and I pulled out my bag and said to fill it instead. They thought I was crazy.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,106 posts)
40. Who gets the money and what is done with it?
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:29 PM
Feb 2019

I do not like where a LOT of my money is spent NOW. IF it were 100% used for research and development of environmental friendly plastic, I would not object at all. But I do not trust all politicians to spend my money wisely.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
53. Our state lege is pretty progressive but like most of them they are concerned with their own
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:47 PM
Feb 2019

town's concerns. We have lots of towns in CT and no county form of government. However, we are a very progressive state overall and New Haven in particular. And it's nice to live in a town with a fabulous university that cares about liberal causes.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
75. I think in most states, the state gets the money
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:09 PM
Feb 2019

I would support that money being used for environmental projects including cleanups.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
42. Where I live you can buy a bag for 10c.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:30 PM
Feb 2019

for that you get a sturdier bag that can be reused.
The flimsy bags that clog up the oceans are banned.

I like that better than a tax.

procon

(15,805 posts)
43. Lived in Europe during much of my childhood,
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:31 PM
Feb 2019

There were no supermarkets, just some small mom&pop shops. Most food was sold fresh from the farm or boat at open air markets.

I remember being fascinated watching the old fishermen darning scraps of tattered fishnets that were past mending. They made bags to whatever size the shopper wanted, their shuttles flying through the netting to sew up the edges and knot in wooden handles for carrying. Of course, mom made us kids lug all those heavy bags of groceries home.

I prefer net bags over cloth and I have a bunch of stretchy net bags that expand to hold an enormous amount of food, sometimes making them too heavy to lift.

BigDemVoter

(4,150 posts)
44. I think it's a GREAT idea.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:32 PM
Feb 2019

They do it here in San Francisco, and just about everybody brings his/her own bag. Great way to help the environment and decrease the number of plastic bags thrown into the ocean.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
46. Seattle here.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:34 PM
Feb 2019

Plastic Bags are BANNED, for quite a few years now. 5 cents for a paper sack, but most people carry re-useable bags. Capitalism survived.

Also, Plastic STRAWS are banned. Go watch a video of a Sea Turtle getting one pulled out of it's nose and you'll be on Team Paper Straw.

KWR65

(1,098 posts)
47. They already have a ten cent tax per bag in california
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:35 PM
Feb 2019

I just recycle my plastic bags when I go to the store. It is no big deal if you stick the plastic bags in your car trunk after every shopping trip.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
55. I don't understand why, though. How do they disproportionately impact poor people?
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:50 PM
Feb 2019

I think poor people care about the environment too. We all live in the same environment, after all, and we all breathe the same air.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
58. If you're counting every penny...
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:53 PM
Feb 2019

... every penny counts. I’ve been poor enough that made a week of meals out of a jar of ragu anf a box of pasta.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
61. But the 10 cents a bag can be a one time charge if all the plastic bags are stuffed in to one plasti
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:56 PM
Feb 2019

bag and brought back to the store the next time they shop

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
69. You can buy a reusable bag for $1
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:27 PM
Feb 2019

Target offers a 5 cent discount for each bag you bring. So using the bag 20 times pays for itself. (Target is not alone, just the first store that discounts for reusables that comes to mind).

Also many organizations give away free bags with their logo on it. Go to any fair or festival. My town has been giving them out (local businesses, library, boro hall, and I believe they were given to the students at the school) in prep for their (now effective) ban on plastic bags.

When using public transit, the reusable bags hold so much more and are much less likely to break the way the flimsy plastic ones do.

ETA I know what it is like to be broke. I've been broke enough to steal rolls of TP from public restrooms.

area51

(11,909 posts)
81. I agree about it being a regressive tax that will impact poor people;
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:28 PM
Feb 2019

I'd rather see stores offer a small rebate per bag if you bring your own.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
95. True
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:01 PM
Feb 2019

Poor people are more likely to use public transportation, including many disabled people. All have a hard enough time shopping and affording food to begin with. Making it more expensive or difficult to acquire food adds another barrier for some people who are already having to deal with too many.
Reinforcing biases against particular populations is not a progressive policy. How about retailers be good corporate citizens and absorb the cost of cloth bags which may be reused.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
111. The people using public transportation to food shop,
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:05 PM
Feb 2019

how do they get their purchases home? What they buy will be bagged in one way or another, and carried home some how. So carrying a couple of bags along in the first place really isn't that difficult.

Unless what they buy is magically teleported home.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
136. Try carrying multiple objects using a wheelchair
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:41 PM
Feb 2019

Then we'll talk. It's difficult to carry them to the store without the wind getting them. Impossible to transport them in mounted containers without having one's personal space invaded. The logistics are extremely difficult, and the assumption that all bodies can perform as defined by non-disabled people is the root of the oppression we experience.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
139. So how exactly does a person in a wheelchair get to and from the grocery store?
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:47 PM
Feb 2019

How do you manage at this point? How exactly are you holding an empty bag that it's being tossed about by the wind?

I realize I've never been wheelchair bound (although I was on crutches for six weeks when I was very pregnant, so I know a little bit about not being able to do regular things) but this is something you are dealing with all the time. There are plenty of bags to use that fold up fairly small and can be put in a pocket, or perhaps tucked into a carry thing attached to the chair.

Perhaps I seem heartless, but the basic thing is that if you're already going to and from stores, however it is you're doing that, adding a couple of fold-up bags to the mix somehow doesn't seem that onerous. And you can still choose to pay 10cents a bag if it really is completely out of the question to bring along your own bag. You are still going to be getting home with whatever you've bought, something you presumably know how to do.

I honestly don't see where disability factors in here.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
141. Since you have not been "wheelchair bound"
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 06:07 PM
Feb 2019

You have not experienced the liberation they provide to a person who wants to wheel to the store a few blocks away, or drive/roll to the bus stop. Particularly when wind is blowing or when picking up a little speed. All the while using armrest controls or manually maneuvering ones body via a chair.
Imagine having to manage the bags while driving. A wheelchair user performs their personal transport with 2 limbs. It makes carrying objects more difficult than for someone using four. I would think that this might have become apparent when you used crutches.
Forcing them to do it both ways makes it more cumbersome than it is to carry bags home when they have enough weight to sit in a person's lap without blowing away.

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
59. It would help me remember to bring in reusable bags. Or how about a discount for folks who bring
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:55 PM
Feb 2019

their own bag if you don't want to 'tax' people.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
60. Nothing.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:56 PM
Feb 2019

Is wrong with that.

Personally I think plastic bags should be banned altogether. But if a 10¢ tax per bag gets people to move away from plastic bags and use re-usable cloth bags so be it.

stopwastingmymoney

(2,042 posts)
63. We've had that for awhile in CA
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:11 PM
Feb 2019

No plastic and the paper ones cost 10 cents

Canvas bags have become the norm, I was already doing that anyway

It seems to work fine, some people were really mad about it though

I do occasionally see people walking out with a pile of items in their arms

But imagine how much plastic trash we've collectively saved!

Oh, and if you're worried about carrying them, i.e. People without cars, look up Chico bags, they fold up really small and can live in your purse.

Luciferous

(6,080 posts)
64. I think it's a great idea, but I always bring my own bags and our store gives us extra fuel points
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:13 PM
Feb 2019

for bringing your own.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
66. what a great idea. My store also has a gas station and I could use an extra discount on gas!
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:16 PM
Feb 2019

I like them. they also have a line that is for disabled folk who need someone to pump the gas for them. That's us...

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
70. We have it in CA
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:30 PM
Feb 2019

Approved by voters and implemented a week or two after the election.

No biggie, I usually buy just a bag at a time so it fits in my hands and hoodie pockets.

Always carry a couple of bags in the trunk, almost always don't bring them in.

My wife has some good Trader Joe bags, I think they sold them for a buck or two, last forever.

I noticed Costco doesn't give out boxes, maybe you have to ask. Again, no biggie, load the stuff up in the back and drive. May take an extra trip to the car to unload.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
71. I collect TJ's bags
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:31 PM
Feb 2019

They make state specific ones and whenever I'm in a new state, I am sure to get that state's.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
74. as you see the various states
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:03 PM
Feb 2019

Whoever designed them has a sense of humor. I'm in NJ and the NJ one has a playlist with songs like "Corn to Run" and "Living on a Pear" on it. The NY one says "give me your tasty, your scrumptious, your muddled mint and lime yearning to breathe free, the refuse of artificial preservatives at your Trader Joe's store. Send these, the organic tempeh tossed to me, I lift my plate beside the golden orange."

(THe NY one is currently sitting in my living room loaded with pussyhats for the next protest).

shanti

(21,675 posts)
135. It does help one to remember to bring them into the store
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:26 PM
Feb 2019

at least most of the time! I have so many reusable bags it's not funny, more than I need, really. My favorite ones are the humungous Costco bags that I got years ago. Saves several trips in from the car and they are strong.

CA doesn't really recycle those thin bags anymore. China doesn't want them.

nolabear

(41,963 posts)
73. Seattle hasn't had plastic grocery bags for years.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:54 PM
Feb 2019

They charge us a nickel for paper ones. There are still plastic options for produce but they cause trouble so we try not to use them.

I’m awful at taking my own but I use the hell out of those paper ones and recycle or compost them.

sinkingfeeling

(51,457 posts)
76. Used my own cloth bags for 20 years. Have some in each car. But
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:10 PM
Feb 2019

until March 1, 2018, I walked to my local grocery with my bags, 2 or 3 times a week. Unfortunately, Walmart forced my store to close.

LAS14

(13,783 posts)
78. Our supermarket charges 10 cents for paper and has no plastic bags.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:11 PM
Feb 2019

It's a town tax. Other towns are moving in that direction. I think Boston has done that, but maybe not yet.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
79. We have a 5c charge
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:14 PM
Feb 2019

Per bag. I’m not sure if this goes towards recycling but my guess is it is prolly just making the state richer. I have used my own bags mostly for quite a while now but I still use the plastics sometimes and then use them for garbage bags after. I have tried the biodegradeable garbage bags but they are useless, they fall apart as soon as moisture hits them or over time and they are very expensive.

I suspect many of the recycle programs lie about what happens from things people at the centers have told me. Due to these issues and too many crazy demands from our county about our recycle and brush pick up I think I may not recycle plastcis anymore since it creates more emissions anyway.

Liberal In Texas

(13,553 posts)
80. We had a city ordinance for plastic bag charges for awhile, but the Tx Lege (Repubs) decided that
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:26 PM
Feb 2019

local gov't. was just too progressive or something, and killed all local laws on bag charges.

I always take bags to the store, even the pharmacy....and usually keep a spare in the side passenger door pocket in case I forget.

Polly Hennessey

(6,797 posts)
82. Nothing.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:28 PM
Feb 2019

Here in Northern California, we have been doing it for a year or so. Took me awhile to remember my own bags. I would always leave them in the car. Now I have a stash of really cute reusable bags. I even use mesh bags for my produce. Not a problem at all.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
83. Austin, TX.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 11:31 PM
Feb 2019

Just instituted the plastic bag ban a few years ago. You wouldn't believe the gnashing and grinding of teeth!

Since then it has seemed to work out well. Of course my concern was initially with people that may not be able to afford the bags but in the long run it seems to be working. If you cannot afford the bags you are able to take your groceries out bag less which a lot of people do.

In my own observation it appears that a lot less of these plastic bags are clogging sidewalks and roadways after the ban was installed.

Unfortunately, the city was sued and now the bags are no longer against the law. However, most of us have gotten used to the ban and bring our own.

I won't lie, it was difficult at first, but it's now like second nature.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
86. I'm currently visiting the UK and Ireland.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:01 AM
Feb 2019

If you don’t bring your own bag, you have to buy one.

Unfortunately they still sell the plastic ones. I long ago got in the habit of bringing cloth bags to the store, so it comes naturally to me here.

I did buy a bunch of Tesco’s plastic bags to take back because they have the Welsh dragon on them.

Revanchist

(1,375 posts)
87. Late to the conversation
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 01:31 PM
Feb 2019

But would the tax also apply to the bags for produce and meats or just the check out bags? I normally bring my own bags but still wrap meat in the bags provided and bag my fruits and veggies.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
89. They started doing that last month in the city where I work, and I think it has worked great
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 01:48 PM
Feb 2019

I've been using cloth and other reusable bags for close to twenty years now, but I'll admit I don't always remember. And I never had them at my office, so if I grabbed a snack and a drink at the CVS for lunch or if I picked up a few things for later I would usually wind up with plastic bags. Now they charge ten cents, but the bags are sturdier. I've bought two of the ten cent bags in the past month, because I've forgotten my own bag and had too much to carry back. It has definitely made me more conscientious. And while I often refused a bag before anyway now I make a point of not getting the bag unless I really need it or know i can use it for some other purpose soon. Not because the ten cents is expensive, but just because the extra step and cost remind me that it's worth the effort not to be wasteful.

ooky

(8,923 posts)
92. Its not regressive if it causes people to use alternatives.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 02:38 PM
Feb 2019

I bring my own reusable bags or ask for paper if I forget to bring reusable. But most shoppers unfortunately still aren't environmentally conscious. While I have no problem with the tax I think the better option would be to just ban the plastic bags altogether. Shoppers would figure it out pretty quickly and it is no big deal to bring your own reusable bags.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
94. But as I said earlier in this thread it is only a one time charge. You can save the bags and bring
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 02:49 PM
Feb 2019

them to the store when you shop again. So if you use five bags, that 50 cents. Period. I can't see it hitting the poor hard and it helps the environment we ALL live in. I am truly confused here so help me out...

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
113. Aldi is a discount grocery store
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:09 PM
Feb 2019

They charge for bags. You can buy them, bring your own, carry your groceries loose, or use the boxes the food was shipped in. People learn to survive.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
97. Regressive in the sense that it would likely hit lower income people more
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:28 PM
Feb 2019

since they're the ones most likely not just to purchase things that need to be bagged (groceries can be bagged, flatscreens can't), but also to have fewer options of transportation and the like (ever tried to carry a box of diapers and jars of baby food in your hands on a bus?)

Here in CA there is an exception carved out for EBT users--perhaps there will be the same in CT?

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
98. But again, if you use a bus to get around you can have your bags at your door on your way out.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:33 PM
Feb 2019

What these plastic bags do to animals and birds is frightening.

I'm hoping that kids today are taught about these threats to the environment in school and can talk about it with their parents.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
116. So does CT have door-to-door bus service?
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:14 PM
Feb 2019

No walking involved?

That is not to say there isn't a problem in need of a solution, or that sacrifices are not needed. The problem is that the same 10 cents--which must be paid by the consumer unless there is an exception--will affect a poorer person more that a wealthier one, especially if said poorer person would need more bags (because they would buy more stuff needing bags).

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
130. I never needed one but I know that there is definitely bus service from downtown New haven
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:03 PM
Feb 2019

to my Stop and Shop in the Westville section of NH (a middle class neighborhood that is very diverse and a great place to live). So yes, the public buses serve the public using the supermarket where I live.

athena

(4,187 posts)
107. Have you ever tried to walk even two blocks with plastic bags
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:57 PM
Feb 2019

full of groceries? Have you ever tried to get on public transportation with them?

I’ve been poor. And I had my own reusable cotton bags when I was poor. Two sturdy bags were all I needed as a single person. Sure, they cost money, but they were much easier to carry. And many stores will give you a five- or ten-cent credit per bag for bringing your own bags.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
121. Would that every poor person were as forward-thinking as you.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:22 PM
Feb 2019

And that they could be all single so that two cotton bags would be all they would need, since those kids sure consume a lot.

Seriously, though--why does the burden need to fall more heavily on the poor, especially if wealthier people can simply pay for the convenience?

CA, to its credit, provides reusable bags to EBT and WIC users free of charge. Sure, those bags are only marginally thicker than the "single-use" bags they replaced, but it's a nod to the inherent regressiveness of a "bag tax."

athena

(4,187 posts)
124. Poor people also need a clean environment.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:39 PM
Feb 2019

Did you even think about what I said about carrying plastic bags? It seems that you’re talking about poor people who can drive to the grocery store. I beg you to try, just once, to walk two blocks with a set of plastic bags full of groceries. I couldn’t do it as a single person, and you’re telling me it can be done with groceries for multiple people.

Reusable bags hold a lot more than plastic bags do. You can put them over your shoulder, so you can carry a lot more at a time. For a family of one single parent and two children, four bags would be enough for a week’s worth of groceries. I have seven in my car now, but three are usually enough for me and my husband.

I’m sorry, but anyone who claims that it’s easier to carry groceries in plastic bags than in cotton canvas bags on public transportation has probably never tried walking any distance with plastic bags full of groceries.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
127. No one is disputing the fact that reusables
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:56 PM
Feb 2019

are more useful and overall better for the environment than single-use bags.

What I'm pointing out is that the bag charge--like sales tax and VAT--is regressive by its nature. And it would seem unfair that poor people are the ones tasked with being more prepared by investing in cloth bags and the like, while the wealthy can simply buy their way out of the problem.

The OP asked how the tax could be considered regressive, and I simply pointed out how a universal tax, applied to everyone regardless of differences in circumstances, can have a regressive effect.

You know, maybe we could do something like this. You know how you need your membership card to enter a Costco? What if we banned plastic bags, and forced shoppers to show their reusable bags at the door before being permitted to enter?

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
145. What bothers me about some arguing the "regressive tax" issue is the assumption that all
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 08:45 PM
Feb 2019

poor people don't seem to care as much as better off folks when it comes to the environment. How do we know they do not feel just as strongly as we do, even if their contribution is considered regressive (which I don't believe it is). They have a stake in the health of our environment, just as we do. We all breathe the same air.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
146. But the effort to do what you say
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 09:01 PM
Feb 2019

is proportionately more onerous for the poor, compared to the better off--but the tax is applied equally to all.

THAT is what makes it regressive.

It has nothing to do with intent or desire, unless you're saying that apparently paying the tax for a poor person is exactly the same as a wealthy person, and any difficulty a poor person might experience is just them not wanting clean air badly enough.

And like I said previously, regressiveness in tax policy can be mitigated by carving out exceptions. CA requires stores to provide reusable (NOT single-use) bags to WIC and EBT users free of charge. Similarly, sales tax (which is also considered a regressive tax) isn't charged on eligible SNAP purchases.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
147. It is not possible for us to differentiate between poor and nonpoor when dealing with supermarket
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 09:18 PM
Feb 2019

customers. That is correct. So it is either no charge on plastic bags or the status quo. This one time charge of 10 cents per bag is a bargain when we consider what the cost of the damage to our environment is. So if you have 5 bags of groceries on average in a shopping trip, that is 50 cents. You bring home the bags, take out the groceries and throw the bags in the car for the next shopping trip, or by the door if you take a bus. You go into the store, buy your groceries and give them your bags for packing up your stuff. Rinse, repeat. Your 50 cents has been saved over and over again.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you object to this idea. It's a win, win for everyone and for our landfill.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
148. Who said I object?
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 09:44 PM
Feb 2019

I am simply explaining why the tax is inherently regressive. I understand the term carries the negative connotation of being not just not for, but against progress.

That does NOT mean I don't agree that something should be done--even if that what needs to be done will necessarily impact some people--in this case, the less wealthy--proportionately harder than others.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
149. It would be ideal if cloth bags were distributed to everyone, well off and poor alike.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 10:45 PM
Feb 2019

Then we'd all be on the same playing field and income disparities would not matter.

Like that's gonna happen.

namahage

(1,157 posts)
150. It's not quite accurate to say that by simply giving everyone the same thing,
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 06:17 AM
Mar 2019

that income disparities would not matter.

Sure, it means that poor people would not have to worry about buying bags. But that also means that the wealthy--if they even bother to use the bags at all--would be free to use the money elsewhere.
Then, of course, is the obvious. Who pays for it? Certainly not the stores, who will likely have to hike up prices to cover the costs. Guess who raised prices will affect more?
Finally, we might also consider that the costs of maintaining cloth bags (washing, repairing, etc.) are also present, and guess which group gets affected by these more? Hint: it isn't the rich.


CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
155. All good and valid points.
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 10:12 AM
Mar 2019

Here is where we, sadly, have to weigh the importance of income disparities. That is, income disparity, not plastic bags, is the problem. Plastic bags impose another burden on the poor in that they pay more (unfairly) to solve our common problem: environmental destruction.

Since this overall issue cannot be settled at the supermarket counter, we have to make up for it elsewhere and that is taxing the rich more in income or wealth taxes, which conservatives despise. It is there that we have to fight the ultimate battle.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
152. Our local thrift store does that, they make them out of old
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 06:40 AM
Mar 2019

t-shirts. Just a few seams and it's done.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
101. They do this in England-- You have to buy the plastic bag.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:43 PM
Feb 2019

So most people bring their own bags. (Except me, because I never remember.)
No one complains- everyone seems to have adjusted.

CountAllVotes

(20,870 posts)
106. It is like that already in California
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 03:55 PM
Feb 2019

If you don't have your own bags, you pay $.10 for one of them.

Some stores will give you $.05 for one re-used as a nice gesture.

I just bought a box of 1,000 of them for use myself.

Cost was $17.00 -- should last for many years!

Nothing new btw.



stopbush

(24,396 posts)
109. Paper bags by volume are worse than plastic bags in landfills.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:04 PM
Feb 2019

We use the heavier, reinforced and reusable plastic bags that Ralph’s in CA sells for $1.

Vinca

(50,273 posts)
114. The town I shop in across the river in Vermont banned bags. After you get in the habit
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:09 PM
Feb 2019

of dragging bags around with you all the time it's okay. You can still buy a paper bag for 5 cents if you want one, but it looks like most people are using tote bags when they shop.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
115. I live in Santa Fe, and several years ago
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:11 PM
Feb 2019

an ordinance was passed requiring a 10 cent charge for bags. I have a whole bunch of bags in my car -- I know! Such an elitist, a car! -- and always grab more than I think I'm going to need when I grocery shop.

A bigger issue with me is that too many stores have only giant carts, and I never need anything that large. The small two-tier ones are far and away better. Unless you're buying enough stuff to need the big one, of course. Wish all the stores would have both.

If I ever move to another city, it will likely be one with better public transportation. Maybe I'll be able to live within walking distance of a good grocery store, which I've done more than once in my life. I learned very quickly not to buy more than I could easily carry home, which is likewise true of any of the fore-mentioned poor people who use public transport.

womanofthehills

(8,710 posts)
118. In Abuquerque, Vitamin Cottage grocery supplies NO BAGS
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:17 PM
Feb 2019

You bring your own or put your groceries into boxes they have available. I like this.

Whole foods has paper bags only, but if you bring your own, you get to choose a small refund or to donate the amt. to a charity.

I love that we are a blue state with so many organic food stores.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
122. I ordered those tough blue
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:23 PM
Feb 2019

IKEA bags. They last forever and are lightweight. They also come in several sizes.

 

BlueintheSTL

(135 posts)
123. I hate it
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:26 PM
Feb 2019

Trader Joe's recently got rid of plastic bags and now when I go in there I am giving your standard large brown paper bag for just a couple of items -- what a waste.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
128. When I lived in Germany years ago stores charged for a plastic bag. Almost everyone
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:56 PM
Feb 2019

brought their own bags though. I collected a lot of shopping bags I still use. Favorites bags were the big Ikea bags. I have bags in every color. Some designed to hold bottles and glass. Some for cold items that must stay cold. Small to very large bags. Depending.

It was euro 10 cent back then for those wishing to use a store plastic bag. The use of plastic was very much discouraged.

You get used to carrying your own bags with you. It becomes habit. I keep some in my car for the just in case. I have a 3 bag pouch in my purse. Folds neatly away and doesn't take a lot of room but the bags are a good size.

People adapt.

Hekate

(90,690 posts)
129. Works well in my locality, only it is presented as a purchase price, not a tax.If I forget my own...
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 04:57 PM
Feb 2019

...bags in the trunk of my car, I usually have my purchases returned to the cart unbagged, then bag them myself when I open the trunk.

Costco has no bags, just cardboard boxes from their food-merchandise. Trader Joes has no plastic, just paper grocery bags which can be reused indefinitely. Target has big plastic bags for which they charge you, and no paper bags.

When I am going from one store to another in a big mall, I want individual bags for my purchases that I can put my receipts into. It feels much more secure. I save the small bags for walking the dog, and the big ones for trash, but still...

I wish they would all just go back to paper bags. Merchants present this as a problem that originated with the customers, but it did not. I remember when Von's, Ralph's, and other grocery stores switched to plastic and made it extremely hard to request paper grocery bags. The baggers began throwing things into flimsy plastic bags in a jumble that smashed bread and bananas and broke eggs, so heavy with cans the bags split, so hard to carry with the ties that my arthritic fingers hurt, and so knobbly and shifty I could not (and cannot) carry those bags in my arms close to my body.

Anyhow -- community by community, shoppers are talking back their choices and rejecting plastic. Again, merchants blame someone else, like politicians. Well -- we elected those politicians, and I thank them.

Turbineguy

(37,331 posts)
132. Tax policy to guide social decisions for the good of all.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:14 PM
Feb 2019

Against republican religion.

It might work if you go like this. "For every person who pays the 10 cent bag tax, we will give $100,000 to a needy billionaire!"

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
134. Paper bags are so useful.
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:22 PM
Feb 2019

We line our kitchen trash can with them.

Put our yard waste in them for pickup.

The wife wraps presents in them.

I use them to drain deep fried food(I’m from Louisiana. We deep fry!)

Paint on them.

Carry all our stuff to goodwill as we slowly deciliter our home.

Paint on them.

And so many more uses.

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
137. We've had a Plastic Bag charge in Ireland since 2002, and it works really well. It reduced the
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 05:44 PM
Feb 2019

number of plastic bags from 300m to 30m in the first year alone. The cheapy bag you would get in a supermarket now costs about 38 US cents, but a reusable strong plastic bag costs about 1 dollar, and you can get environmentally friendly reusable cloth/canvas bags for about the same price as well.

It really didn't take much of an adjustment at all, to get used to. I have a few cloth bags that fold into a pocket that I keep in the car etc for the spontaneous purchase.

randr

(12,412 posts)
153. Only if they use the tax to a good use
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 06:58 AM
Mar 2019

Sin taxes, levies designed to curtail consumption, are an example of a "nannie state" and never address the problem directly.
Plastic bags are a product of oil/extraction dependence and harmful to our environment.
Rewards for consumer use of recycled bags makes more sense. Saves money and the environment at the same time.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
156. The bag tax is being advanced because CT is in dire straits with a huge deficit.
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 11:51 AM
Mar 2019

it's for a good cause and being advanced by our governor, ned Lamont, whom I voted for.

femmedem

(8,203 posts)
154. I support the tax, but I do use all of my plastic bags for scooping cat litter.
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 07:56 AM
Mar 2019

I have five cats. I scoop a lot of litter.

I don't generate much other trash. about one more plastic bag worth per week. If I were to stop using the store bags, I'd end up buying plastic bags instead.

That said, I support the tax because most people are not in my position, and even for me, ten cents per bag is cheaper than buying plastic trash bags.

CountAllVotes

(20,870 posts)
157. yep
Fri Mar 1, 2019, 01:49 PM
Mar 2019

That is why I bought 1,000 of them in a box for $17.00.

I have three indoor cats and the cat litter needs to be scooped out every day!

Need these bags and I hate paying $.10 for one of them.

$17.00/1000 = .017 per bag



Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What is wrong with a 10 c...