General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSDNY is a FEDERAL COURT
Last edited Thu Feb 28, 2019, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)
I'm seeing a lot of mistaken posters here claiming donnie can't pardon if there is a conviction by the SDNY. That's simply not true. It's only STATE charges that he can't touch. While the SDNY has the reputation for independence from the DOJ, they are still a federal court.
That would be where federal charges originate.
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)The topic is presidential pardons.
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)pardon power of the President.
If the crimes were committed in Florida I doubt the Florida AG would bring charges.
RockRaven
(14,967 posts)under federal law and not under NY state law (some other states, like CA, do have their own treason laws). Conspiracy to defraud the US -- which a number of people have been charged with by Mueller already -- is also not a state crime. Same with lying to a federal investigator.
Fortunately NY has expansive bank fraud jurisdiction, and tax fraud should completely bypass any double jeopardy question if Trump tries to pardon his way clear (since filing a state return is a totally separate act from filing a federal return). But people expecting state charges to act as a full back-stop to Trump interference in federal criminal prosecutions will be let down.
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)We need to see more of these cases being handled by the NY A.G., not SDNY. Fortunately, I think Letitia James is working in that direction.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)It's strictly matter of venue, not of actual law.
That does not mean that the State of New York doesn't have concurrent jurisdiction over matters that could involve New York state law. That will be a problem for Trump.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)and, unlike many other districts around the country, don't blindly take marching orders from the political brass in DC.
Trump thought that getting rid of Pretty Bahara would save him, but he's learning that the SDNY prosecutors are going to do what they think is right, regardless who the political leadership is.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)MineralMan
(146,313 posts)Now, if there were a State of NY criminal trial, a presidential pardon would not be possible. Some have suggested that possibility as well. If Trump violated state tax laws, for example, he could be charged for that by the Attorney General of NY.
I'm sure it's being looked into.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)by both NYC and NYS. We downstaters are determined to make sure he regrets even considering descending that escalator in that eyesore of a building.
ScratchCat
(1,990 posts)and people mispeak sometimes.
While SDNY is a federal court, more importantly, the State of New York has its own tax and financial laws which have almost assuredly been violated with the hush money payment scheme and other financial fraud. People keep conflating federal crimes covered by SDNY with State crimes covered by NYAG. New York can file State charges against anyone at anytime. Only the Governor can issue a pardon. Any and every Trump can be indicted right now in New York State court. It is my personal belief they already have the charging documents filled out, maybe even sealed indictments, and they are simply waiting.
Maeve
(42,282 posts)If the NY state Attorney General's office has been working on back-up state indictments on Manafort in case of a pardon, what else do you suppose they have been working on?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)looking at money laundering, tax evasion and perhaps even extortion:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/manhattan-da-office-probed-for-dropping-cases-after-lawyers-made-big-donations-report
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)Proceedings will be controlled by the NYS Attorney General, and Chump's pardoning power would be meaningless. I recently read that the State of New Jersey is looking into charges against the Chump Organization as well. Hopefully Florida should be able to find charges against Chump's Mar-A-Lago for all the illegal worker violations, if nothing else.
Leith
(7,809 posts)It would be better if the state of NY in cooperation with NYC made charges.
But, consider the case of Al Capone. He was a known bootlegger, murderer (Valentine's Day massacre), mob boss, and all 'round baddie. He was brought down by a tax evasion charge. Even after he was let out of prison, he succumbed to syphilitic dementia, a stroke, and a heart attack at age 48. I dunno about anyone else, but I would be satisfied if a similar fate befell he-who-must-not-be-named.