.

refunds don't mean anything as underwithholding or overwithholding impacts the refunds

All they understand is the refund. Taxes are hard.

can't help them

The problem is, they are really ignorant. It's not really their fault, or intent, to look foolish. They just don't know any better. So we can't be too hard on them.

"Think how stupid the average person is.. and realize half of them are stupider than that"

into thinking the new tax rules were working for them by manipulations that caused millions to underwithhold, resulting in temporary paycheck increases many were happy to attribute to tax cuts.

Except this to be talked about more, not less, as more people become...informed.

Less of your money is withheld, denied to you for your use all year, kept in the government's pocket without paying you interest, and somehow that is you being suckered?

You have more of your money to spend as you please all year, making it eacier to pay your bills for twelve months, and this is you being suckered?

And yet you don't have to pay any of that money back, because the amount of tax you paid was a bit less, and this is you being suckered?

If you were underwithheld to the point that, for the first time, you owe taxes then there is no interest or penalty for that. You had some of the government's money and don't have to pay interest for having had it and being able to use it, and this is you being suckered?

Perhaps you were suckered because you didn't look at your paycheck and notice how much was, or wasn't, being withheld? Perhaps you were suckered because you didn't read in the newspaper, or in about a zillion articles online, about the changes that were made to the tax laws?

It's being talked about because people did not become informed when the tax law changed, they did not become when the amount on their paychecks changed, and they are resisting becoming informed when their tax refund changes. "Oh, woe, it must mean that my taxes increased."

Who does that, by the way? The amount on their paycheck changes and they don't bother to find out why it did that.

that tens of millions of citizens are not up to snuff with today's world and are easily fooled and taken advantage of. They count on it.

After all, how do you think they got people to vote them into office and then support screwing them over, including with the various tax heists?

And I wouldn't feel too superior about all this. Given its intense complexity, my husband and I only know those things we thought to look up. We'll find out more of the effects of this when we do our taxes and hope our tax preparer will be skilled enough to do anything that might be possible for people at our level.

Btw, we'll all also need to keep re-learning every year as the heist was designed for tax cuts for most people to incrementally diminish and disappear, or to just disappear, and also for new taxes to kick in. It's designed to deceive. Enjoy.

Just noticed the 2018-19 federal income tax code has 1776 pages. Someone has a sense of humor.

I don't recall going to the payroll office at my work and saying, please lower my withholding so that I will owe more money April 15 than I did last year.

The order went out to these offices to withhold less money. From whom? For what purposes?

So I don't agree with those saying having to pay more or receiving less back is these people's fault.

comparison. I PAID about 5k more.

Not asking about income or deductions.

And given that the tax percentage rate didn't go up for anyone, the main reason some people may be seeing increases has to do with the changes in the deduction rules. So are you sure your deductions are the same as last year?

Deductions are the same, but many are now disqualified.

Were the same number of dollars withheld?

I'm retired, SS with a small pension and savings... My refund was the same from last year give or take $25... Taking standard deduction instead of itemizing worked out for me. Last year I itemized.. Florida, no state tax, 7% sales tax in my county...
I have changed how much tax is taken out to come out even at tax time next year.. I don't want to give the gubment a free loan.. That's my money and I want it now..
m

If you want to make this about witholding, you must admit that in order to get the same results under the new tax system, the OP enjoys less of her or his income. Every paycheck will have significantly less money.

For your average taxpayer to save a lump sum
People have gotten used to that yearly bump but now, for many, it will no longer be there

I always shift up my exemptions around the early/middle part of the year once the rules are finalized. I make the attempt to break even - a plus or minus $200 with the refund or owed taxes with the feds has pretty much been my goal since I started working 40 years ago.
Here's the issue I as I've experienced it as an "above the median, but below six figures" professional wage earner.
We actually ended up paying more in taxes over the year to break even and still ended up owing $500 over our normal break even point - and I changed my withholdings to "single" last April (I'm the only wage earner).

It wasn't that my company gave me more back for "exemptions" over the year, it's that due to all the losses of the itemized deductions I used to be able to write off - business type deductions, SALT, etc.,
I actually owed more without having a pay raise or otherwise a change. I actually got less "in my pocket" over the year because I changed our exemptions so I wouldn't get socked with a nasty surprise.
I don't have a mortgage. I don't own a business, even though I have "professional" expenses that used to be tax deductible. I'm just a normal working stiff living in a home we own free and clear, a student loan payment, and three dependents - one a disabled spouse who doesn't work and two are children under the age of 17. (That supposedly wonderful "$2K per kid" tax credit didn't work too well, did it?)

I still ended up owing $500 more in taxes this year than last year. At least it wasn't the $3K or so we would have owed if I had taken the exemptions the IRS suggested in their W4 worksheet...

Boy howdy, my State Tax refund did go up - I got every penny I paid to the State of California. $4K instead of the normal $1200.

I guess that might have made up for it; maybe I should have taken that extra $60 a paycheck and used my California return to pay my Federal return this year...

But I do feel for my co-workers. Most of them weren't as proactive as I was; and too many of them thought they were actually getting a tax cut and a pay raise under President Dumpster Fire. The average paycheck bump in the office was around $150 over 20 paychecks; so a gain of around $3K.

The average tax differential between last year and this year was a loss of $4K.
Most got a net increase of $1K in the Federal Tax owed for 2018 over 2017, with little to no change in financial status.

Haele

however we had seriously overpaid in the years before and it was refund time. This year was still a good refund, so we were happy and while afraid that we were going to be paying the new tax rules helped us by a few hundred dollars.

None really enough to make any big purchases. I was hoping to get a new bed frame, meh.

hope you're among the fortunate ones.

except for being 5 grand in debt instead of getting 3 grand back due to changes in allowed deductions.

One number doesn't explain much.

I got more money back...

But i lowered my exemptions at the beginning of the year

In 2015 and 2016, I got back over $8,000.

But in 2017, my oldest child turned 17 and I was not able to claim him anymore; plus I had some unexpected income which forced me to pay back my ACA credit, so my 2017 tax return was only $2,500, which was my worst year in about a decade.

However, in 2018, with the changes to the standard deduction, it bumped my tax rate down even though my income increased. Plus with the changes to the child tax credit, I was able to claim my 18 year old again, since he was still in school and the tax credit for my other kids doubled. So, in 2018 I got back about $6,000.

However, I think most of that is due to me having so may kids. If I didn't, I don't think I would have got much back at all.

which, of course is meaningless.

I paid $1700 less in tax than I would have under the old tax rules. My effective tax rate (total Tax / Total Income) was 7.23%, down slightly from last year's 7.60%.

But, I am retired so I had control over my federal withholdings, or so I thought. The company that controls my pension deducted less federal withholding tax without my knowledge or consent.

I do my own taxes by hand, I just mailed them yesterday. They are not easier to do, about the same. Saying you can do them on a post card was stupid because a couple of my forms are full page size. Then again maybe I made a mistake and if I did I will get back to y'all.

Being retired I am not a good example to gage Trump's tax scam.

Mostly due to the SALT cap.

I'm scared because I haven't done mine yet.

The Greedy Old Pigs are gonna pay for this.

Living at the poverty level has its benefits. I don't have the gut churning, keep you up at night, financial problems the rest of you face.

The change in withholding tables.... as well as the cap in SALT deductions..... killed me.

Percentage of it in taxes.

I paid less in taxes overall, but made a lot less money in 2018. If I did not have kids, I would have owed.

But no one noticed. So now, with reduced withholding, refunds are down. Trump’s ploy backfired. In fact, tax liability is lower for most people. But they don’t know that. And, of course,nether real tax rate is the spending rate. Trump increased military spending so he has raised taxes. His tax bill just delays when the higher taxes are paid.

know how much of an impact that had. We also have a daughter in college so we get money back for tuition and we have never itemized deductions.

but I'm filthy rich. See, I'll make up for it with the sale of a few million in stock options.



It may be time for "Pitchforks, Torches, and Guillotines" in this country soon.

God, I hate these fuckers with a pure, burning hatred.

My refund is about $1000 less this year than last year, but my total taxes dropped.

I haven't gotten a tax refund in years. Frankly I don't understand why people over withhold, but I know it's common for reasons that I'll never understand. In any event the metric of refund size is a little weird to me. (I go by tax liability since thats what comes out of my pocket)

My taxed won't be finished until October, but I have the estimates already and it won't change much.

Overall, my tax liability went down about ~8%. I will have to send the IRS a slightly larger checked on April 15th. Looks like about 4% larger.

I'll probably adjust my quarterly estimated taxes a bit so that I come in a bit closer (without generating a refund) next year.

paying, post the tax scam act, hasn't changed all that much. This person got 2000 more, that person got 3000 less, this +400, that one -75, etc., doesn't reveal much with vast differences on income, personal situations i.e. no dependents vs 4 + dependents, etc., really cannot make any kind of conclusion by knowing if someone got more or less. Percent of tax change up or down would be a little more informative but still doesn't comprehend all the different income levels and personal situations.

This is not to be critical of the OP, who is simply sharing info, but to bring out a point that I think is significant from reading these threads, is that people, by and large, aren't reporting huge differences in the percent of tax they are paying. Up or down. And that is a clear failure of the new tax law in itself, as Trump and Republicans campaigned on a tax cut that they intentionally falsely characterized would change everyone's living standards. And, I certainly think we can say now that we aren't seeing that, and now have more evidence that we are all simply paying for Republican legislative theft and self dealng by the ultra wealthy. And we should be campaigning on that, hard, going into the 2020 election.

I dont' know if it is the three kids and middle income or what but the new tax laws were amazing for wife and I. Between the new higher standard deduction and the increase in the child tax credit, it completely wiped out everything we would have owed so we got a full refund of everything paid and final tax amount is $0.

small business portion of our filing. I'm grateful for CPAs because I can't make heads or tails of it.

and I still got a refund of about $3000. The new standard deduction was higher than my itemized deduction of last year, which would have been even lower this year.

Didn’t take out any federal on that until this year so thought I would owe instead got same $900 back I got last year.

I checked about of tax owed and last year paid $200 more even with less income so I guess for me it was better a bit this year.

I didn’t change deductions.

We are retired so no kids or schedule A this time.

today. I have to pay $1980.00. Never had to pay before. Nothing has changed in the payroll deductions. I have to have my account explain why I have to pay this year so my little brain can process it.

...the tax cut for me was around $3500. I picked it up off the rate reduction and not being penalized for not having children.

This tax law is very anti-middle class and anti-child.

I was really lucky that we have a good HR person who warned us about this last year.

They must’ve fixed the AMT, but the SALT cap sucked. So I’m paying more than I’d budgeted but not a horribly high amount more.

Still haven’t completed the kids’ taxes. The college scholarship tax changes may suck.

About half the refund of last year, but I owed the state. Last year I got 7 bucks back from the state. So when you figure in the state hit, well, probably about 25% of what I got last year. Thanks Trump!

Owed money.

I think the difference was basically due to a nearly doubling of the standard deduction we got for filing married filing joint.

Hubby's income was slashed to 25k but we both have 0 witholdings and tale out an extra 50/paycheck. We got back about 3k

meh

We still were able to itemise deductions, but investment expenses (consulting & advisory) were not deductible this year and that's a lot of money.

As we owe, we're not going to pay until April 15th.

Actually, I'm proud of myself for finishing in early March! Woohoo!