And willful ignorance.

IMHO ignorance is a choice.

It was Samuel Johnson who, in the 18th century, said "Ignorance, when voluntary, is criminal". Today we have millions of criminally ignorant people in this country. They are called the republican party.

Welcome to DU gwyllm!

there's none so blind that will not see. We shouldn't pay the price to be labeled a dumbed down electorate bc the facts are inconvenient. We send most of our kids to good colleges, yet, the gop acts like we are the stupidest population on Earth. Tell that to the folks w student loans. Education appears more and more to mean nothing.

if you look at state by state, and factor in suppression and the TRussian influence.

If they did, they would never, ever, be for someone who they (and most of us) agree with to a tee, and are sympathico with, they would find the last and most likely person who could stop this scourge of our way of life. It doesn't mean the death of what we care about, it just means those people will lead, just not as president.

There are trillions at stake. What would you do for a share of the next tax break from Russiapublicans? And that's just a fraction of what's at stake.

They just do not give a shit about anything until it directly effects them and their life. They are immoral in that sense.

I see all sorts of pissed off people joining grassroots organizations. Some of them are novice precinct committeemen and activists. I attend some meetings of a local grassroots organization. Only ONE other person who attends these meetings is a veteran activist.

Where were they before 45 was elected? We tried for years to get them to vote and they just looked at us with their bare faces hanging out.

our progressive organizations ignoring talk radio for 30 years while it kicked our ass and led us into this disaster.

there are huge parts of the country, like 40 states with 80 senators, where the only free easy alternative for politics while driving and working and doing chores is talk radio and because the left has ignored and not challenged it a shitload of americans believe the alternate reality.

unchallenged repetition of distortions and lies and think tank generated messaging - a propaganda operation that only works because liberals ignore it and blame its symptoms, like unsuccessful but well meaning politicians, deregulated media and money in politics, voter suppression sold with talk radio lying about illegal immigrants voting, etc

dems just pass reform and same as usual, guess what. then with 1500 radio stations they'll still eventually get the apathetic shits thinking dems are the same as republicans

that is the difference and that is fixable - stop ignoring talk radio

Thanks!

I believe we are all here to inform and entertain.

Taking away that distinction is a foundation of totalitarianism. Arendt should be required reading in our schools.

The RW is frothing at the mouth with hateful lies. Ignorance can be benign. The rich puppet masters of the Republican Party are inducing hysteria in the hateful RW masses. The dumbing down has been proceeding for decades. Fox News and the stars of RW radio have sown the seeds well. We are all about to reap the Whirlwind. Rise Against the Lies!

I know it seems impossible but a strong front of love and care is the only thing that can confuse the RW and possibly bring about a future we can all experience. It will be incredibly ugly but hate and ignorance will only fall to love and truth. Nothing less will do, imo.

Want to see ignorance in large Quantities go to Twitter. I'm new here and hope I'm not breaking any rules but it is mind boggling what some of the people over there say. There's a very large group of people over there who call themselves the Resistance. Was glad to join them because they really hated Trump and seemed like Liberals. But as time passed, I started scratching my chin. On my Pinned Tweet over there I bashed Tyson Foods whom as many know got Steve King elected in Iowa. He is so KKK he makes the GOP cringe. Yet not even one person in this group gave me a like or retweet. I scratched my chin harder when right after Bernie announced he was running many of them started bashing him making up blatant lies. When Pelosi announced several days ago that Medicare for All was not likely not even one of them complained. Last night one of their members said they would laugh in Bernie's face if something bad happened to him. They don't consider Bernie to be a democrat. However, otherwise I agree 110% with the Black and White Part. Their own party can do no wrong. Everything bad that happens is the fault of Bernie or the other party. I think I would be in violation of the rules here if I said anything more. So all I can do is suggest to read some of their tweets. Suffice to say a lot of Americans need to get educated.

So simple yet perhaps so difficult. If Americans would unite and Never Ever vote for any Politician backed by Corporate Lobbyists we could completely drain the swamp and truly Make America Great Again. Of course this is easier said than done because of all the ignorant people out there. How many times must Corporate America poo in our face before America Wakes Up? I woke up long ago. Hoping others will join in soon.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/04/how-corporate-lobbyists-conquered-american-democracy/390822/

it's their 'saving grace.'

directly and personally, as so many here do, ONLY makes a supporter double down.

It's frustrating to see many people I agree with on the issues refuse to see that no one has EVER changed another person's mind by calling them 'dumb', 'ignorant', 'racist', or the like.

Not *one* meme, tweet or screed of any type has done the slightest bit of good except to make us who already oppose the administration feel better, and probably does nearly an equal amount of harm in that it makes the people we supposed elites disparage just double down, stick their fingers in their ears harder and ignore what they consider 'fake news' even more.

Facts, not personalities matter. Money matters, not Russia, immigration or climate change when it comes to getting people who supported Trump in 2016 to vote for the Democrat in 2020.

Sure as a white, middle class male I could be accused of ignoring racial injustice and toxic masculinity, but my point is that people who are concerned about such concepts ain't going to vote for Trump in 2020 anyway.

It's the economy, and only the economy that matters in terms of changing votes; everyone who already actually cares about racial issues, climate change, Russian interference, etc is already voting our way, it's only if we point out in clear and respectful, empathetic ways how Trump's policies are actually hurting their pocketbook that will change areas now red.

I don't CARE how much you hate Trump supporters, the more you ridicule them, the more you equate a MAGA hat with a KKK hood, the more you treat them as beneath contempt the more likely they are to continue and increase their support of him.

Maybe I'm wrong- I kind of hope I am - and merely increasing our own turnout without turning any Trump supporters to our side will be enough in 2020, but if not, we're going about it in the wrong way.

Their "values" are anathema to our own. Forget about offending the cult members, we need to go after first time voters and independents, that population alone far exceeds the number of republican voters. It's true that we should present our vision more than just tearing down (justifiably) the other side. Ask yourself why you would want to cater to people who are convinced that 60% of the population are their enemies?

if that vote comes from a sexist, racist, misogynist, homophobic, khaki wearing, tiki torch toting dweeb in their mama's basement, that vote counts *just* as much as mine, or yours; and possibly more if they are in a state where the electoral college gives that vote disproportionate weight.

It's not an 'either/or'! First time voters are crucial, so are independents, so are marginally committed registered Democrats, so are people who previously voted for Trump and/or republicans.

I don't give a shit about ideological purity, or how many people who vote D are actually just merely greedy, self interested 'deplorables', the numbers at the end of the day are the only thing that matters.

Gallup polling in 2018 found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrat, 24% identified as Republican, and 42% as Independent. So, we truly don't need them, and what's more is we really don't want them either. It's not ideological purity, its basic decency, and a vote for tRump is an excellent indicator of a lack thereof. You're saying winning is what matters, I think HOW you win matters too.

except the vote itself..

I could not care less "how" we win. I don't care about anything other than the numbers at the end of the day.

That which can't be measured doesn't matter

They're not doubling down on anything. If they're being willfully ignorant, for the vast majority, nothing we can do or say is ever going to change that. I think you're overestimating the ability of people who are completely irrational being swayed by rationality.

You're talking about people who believe that God sent Trump to save America. That Obama was from Kenya and a terrorist-supporting Muslim. That Hillary had a couple dozen people killed and was running a sex ring out of the basement of a pizza place that didn't have a basement. That the US Military was going to invade a country - the United States - that it already inhabits.

You really think being nice to these people is going to change any of that?

as the pocket book hits keep coming.

it's all about the bottom line.

And *NOT* being nice to people is ABSOLUTELY not going to change any of that.

Anyway, I'm not sure some of these people ever cared about democracy, or the basic ideals I remember being taught were the foundation of our republic.

And some of their ignorance is cultivated--like you say, they do not care to educate themselves. And/or they don't seem interested in questioning authority--if they are told something by their "leaders," they are just happy to have someone tell them what to do so they don't have to think for themselves.

A large number of Americans are just plain stupid. They can no longer even see ignorance in their rear view mirror.

From East Germans, who confiscated all newspapers from visitors coming from the West, to people in the American South wanting to introduce biblical notions into school textbooks on history and science, it's always the same principle. Control what people "know," and you control how they think.

It is no accident that people who watch Fox "News" and actually believe what they hear are the most uninformed/ignorant people in the United States. It was no accident that the most loyal supporters of the "true existing socialism (their expression)" of East Germany, before it collapsed, were the ones in pockets of East Germany that did not receive Western TV or radio.

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

-- Isaac Asimov

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