no matter how inconvenient. Bush/Cheney never held accountable. It is the duty of the house to hold the president accountable for breaking the law...to demonstrate we are a nation who stands for the rule of law, that no one is above it. Pelosi refused to hold Bush accountable and is now refusing to hold Trump accountable. They had oversight investigating Bush too and look at what he got away with. Trump's rubes will react to impeachment the same way they are reacting now. But the rest of the country is thinking dems are cowards so why bother to vote. Republicans will suffer in the senate if they refuse to convict but impeachment reveals to the public all the crimes Trump has committed and that dems are striving to hold him accountable to the rule of law. Last time Pelosi refused to impeach cost us the House. This time it may be the senate. Trump is the most criminal President we've ever had committing 3 impeachable offenses publicly with much more to come due to increased investigative powers of the House. It's a win win cause if repubs in senate refuse to convict THEY will look like the defense attorney who got a known rapist off on a technicality. Plus all Trump's crimes will be exposed. Stop being afraid of impeachment and stand up for the rule of law. Let's be bold. Unlike Bush we must hold Trump accountable so future presidents will know they won't get away with breaking the law. (Instead of "just ignore 'em. They won't do anything anyway&quot

Watergate took 2 years for the investigations to unfold and the country to get on-board for impeachment. Because impeachment is so political, you have to have the majority of the country with you. Pelosi knows what she is doing. I can't image a newbie doing it so well. trump and the repubs would just roll a newbie.

K&R

#2 Its not worth it.

Or, hell, even the one-line analysis.

The media is focusing on her "no impeachment" stuff but skipping her "if overwhelming evidence is found" statement.

be a single Republican in the Senate who would vote to remove him.

Even if he murdered someone on the floor of the Senate, they wouldn't vote to remove him.

One of her metrics was that there had to be bipartisan support. That will never, ever happen. She took it 100% off the table with that one line. That horrible orange thing gets away with it all, and the next crook will get away with even more because there is apparently no amount of criminality that is too much.

is released. Present a case with so much evidence it is that is unimpeachable.

It's so gratifying to see so many of my beloved DUers recognizing that her strategy is the correct one.

So what it wound up meaning - for all of history - was that two war criminals walked away free as can be.

Never held fully accountable.

Never had to pay for what they did, how they lied about all the WMD that didn’t exist but we still had to go to war over.

Never had to face the music about how many American forces died unnecessarily - for their lies and scare tactics.

And no marker was EVER left, no penalty EVER imposed, no example set or deterrence presented. No teachable moment about WHY you DON’T do that shit!

I hope I’m not asking, YET AGAIN, a few years from now - have we learned NOTHING????? Because last time, the only takeaway was that if you work it just right, you CAN get away with it (too).

I hope she’s doing the right thing. But the ground I stand on, with that, is not at all solid. OR firm.

Be patient. To not impeach would set the president that all he did may be bad but not impeachable in the future. The House has to do it before fall 2020.

Bill Clinton came out of his looking like a victim, with higher approval ratings than ever.

than trump has even managed to approach, to date.

they will not cross him.

His base doesn't have to be the majority of voters to get the majority of the Senate to protect him.

I'd love to see Trump impeached but I'd rather see him in jail, & impeachment can't do that.

She knows that as the leader of the Dems in the house that would start impeachment proceedings that she needs to maintain the stance of nuetrality on impeachment until enough evidence accumulates that would get the votes of her caucus.

Weaken him so much that by the general election he will be a laughing stock joke.

The “t” name will forever be one of a crook, conman, and traitor who only fools voted for. Maga’s will be ridiculed for being so dumb. Maybe maga’s will become synomous with fools!

We're ALL dying a death by 1000 cuts. What he does in one day is appalling. I just don't get the sense of urgency from Congress. I hear their anger, but, to say I'm worried this Banner Bully will get away w it is an understatement.
If they charge him w something and he gets three weeks (or less), in jail, after all this, ....cold comfort.
He's an awful example for children all the way through college, and his 'permission to be bad' to the older kids has been shown over and over.
He's not a legit president. Let's not give him the benefit of the doubt that that's where we start w this a-hole.

It's frustrating, but that doesn't change the reality of how difficult the constitution makes it to get rid of a POTUS other than elections.

I personally would not like our leaders lie to validate people's impatience now, if it just means disappointing us horribly later when it turns out that they should have been focusing on legislation to undo some of the damage that has been done, rather than spinning their wheels trying to drum up support from the Trump base for impeachment...

My mother was very angry at Gore for "just giving up" after SCOTUS handed the election to W. She said it was "so disheartening" as though he was obligated to keep on validating her anger because she supported him, even though there was no court higher than SCOTUS to appeal it to. He could have wasted a whole lot of money for his own recount which would have changed nothing, futilely kept ranting on news programs about how unfair it was, and or he could do what he did, move on, and start the "Inconvenient Truth" project.

If we have to choose between having our leaders feed our anger with red meat (like the tea party leaders did during the Obama administration, (promising impeachment, or proof that he was born in Kenya, every other week) and them doing what they can actually get accomplished, I think we know what's best in the long run.

Speaker Pelosi and the House leadership know what they're doing.

The secret service will escort him to marine 1, and as likley as not drop his already-indicted ass off at the new york prosecutors office.

we gave a top shelf criminal 4 years to destroy this country bc...kompromat/greed, and a dying gop that could'nt win on it's platform, so they FRICKEN CHEATED. The Kennedys got shot in the head for far far less. FAR less. Lest we all forget. But we could'nt/would'nt impeach bc we are afraid of the Senate? Make the Senate move through/via, evidence at impeachment maybe?
The Supreme Court alone, will be passing laws to hurt us for evermore. I hope you guys and gals know what you're talking about.

impeach. Do you really think that she actually has the power to make the Senate vote her way, and just refuses to use it?



Impeachment without "bipartisan support and concrete evidence" (which are the circumstances under which she said she WILL impeach) is a hollow threat, and picking a fight we know we can't win.

Then Trump will look like a victim who triumphed over a partisan attack.

Pelosi knows what she's doing, and us "boys and girls" as you so respectfully put it, who know her record do trust her on this.

What we all need to understand is that there may be no way to remove him before 2020. It sucks, but all the complaining and ranting against the Dem leadership won't change that one bit. That assumes that the Dem leadership isn't doing everything that they can, and are just twiddling their thumbs if they aren't ranting on twitter or announcing impeachment hearings. The Watergate investigation took two years after intial indictments from the break-in to get started with impeachment hearings. Even then Nixon was listed as an "unindicted co-conspirator."

This GOP Senators are much less ethical, and Trump's base is far more rabid and delusional than Nixon's base. There will need to be solid, documented evidence of criminal activity on the part of Trump himself in order for any impeachment to be on the table. We know that DT often protected himself by telling others to give him plausible deniability, and not let him know the details of any criminal activity being done on his behalf, and spoke in 'code' to prevent being accused of directing people to lie for him. He thinks like a mob boss, and they are difficult to jail because of their savvy covering their tracks.

Personally, I think the most likely scenario of him leaving office before 2020 won't be impeachment. It will be that Ivanka winds up facing NY state charges (which can only be pardoned by the NY Governor) for something that she did on his behalf, and he agrees to resign as a deal to keep her out of jail.

That's why news coming out of NY on the Trump family is far more interesting to me right now than any futile talk of impeachment. Pelosi is wisely keeping a low profile on impeachment, even though there is already work going in congress putting into place the structures and staff needed for impeachment the minute it becomes possible, as per "solid evidence bipartisan support. Watch her change gears the minute that happens. She'll be saying "The people are calling for this, so we have to make it happen," then whip out the hearing dates in the same breath.

If he resigns without impeachment, that will be a huge win for Democrats, because they can spend that time investigating Pence's involvement in the transistion. And then Trump will face criminal indictments in NY as a private citizen and spend more of his life in prison, and his ill gotten gains turned over to the U.S. Government.

in open hearings what he's guilty of. Unlike the blessed mueller report we've all laid our heads upon at night. After America see's in broad daylight what hes done, the Senate will move bc they have to. Their constituents must be made complicit too if they want to tout him as their lord and savior.
Now they can hide behind...no collusion...bc we havent seen much in public hearings to say otherwise.
We have nothing to lose except 4 more years of him. I hear your points. I have some of my own, and "NOBODY' loves Nancy like I do. (To use a word from orange julius.) Deeply troubling. as you can see the gop is already making hay w what she said. I'd have preferred she said less. But, I'm just some derelict old citizen. I'll shut up and keep paying my taxes.

And Mueller has put certain findings in concerning Manafort's sentencing in a statement to the judge - and only the judge can suppress those. Neither the White House, nor the DOJ can touch those documents.

I don't lay my head on Mueller's report. From my post, you would know that I think the NY AG is likely to turn up more damning evidence than anyone, Mueller included, on the whole Trump family.

Justice delayed, is justice denied. That's my motto.

It makes DT look like a victim, and fulfills the GOP 2018 campaign promise that the Dems would impeach "for no reason" if they took the house.

It's an injustice to those who can be helped by Democrats getting some legislation passed instead of focusing on hearings when we don't even have the Mueller findings yet.

How is shooting ourselves in the foot by getting ahead of the evidence "justice?"

I'm at work. Take care.

But as this timeline isn't entirely up to me, I'm just suggesting whats likley in the event that he isn't (or that the process begins but isn't completed by the time the polls would close).

And besides, “leaving it to the voters” leaves ALL of us still susceptible to the trolls and bots and other social media nogoodniks who can put their thumb on the scale and cheat another illegitimate election “win.”

It means blindly (and I think naively) trusting that the Russians (and possibly OR likely others as well) won’t successfully meddle in our elections again.





After all, surely our avowed adversaries have absolutely no motivation for maintaining this particular status quo now, do they!

For the record I was not on the dump Nancy Pelosi bandwagon. However to many of us this gives tRump and the complicit GOP an unecessary reprieve."Trump is not worth impeaching".
Hell yes he is. Whether or not there are grounds for impeachment (yet), or if the complicit republican congress would ever vote for it for it do not negate that.
Playing nice with these sob's will yield nothing postive for the country.

Saying we do not have a case for impeachment or we don't have the votes for impeachment, or saying nothing would have been better. This multi-demensional chess bs translates into another crooked immoral republican administration will get away with it and empower the next one to act as if the are above the law because our toothless controls to prevent them from doing so keep sweeping their misdeeds under the rug.

At some point if there are solid grounds for impeachment I hope that the house proceeds with it to document and expose their misdeeds and expose all the reublicans who will vote not to impeach.

Good points. Believe it or not, congress has a job to do for each and every one of us beyond their work. Called security and piece of mind. They get paid a kings ransom and have all the benefits folks stand to lose. There's the appearance of LACK of urgency in what she said and it's troubling. I hope sister has something up her sleeve. Yes, Bush/Cheney was a big mistake. Recall that bush stole that election too.

a witch hunt. Until we have hard evidence, any talk of impeachment can be called partisan, and discredits the effort.

Also, saying DT "isn't worth it," is an obvious trolling of a man who believes himself to be irresistible to and in command of all women. He hates being dismissed more than anything - his ego can't take it.

The GOP loves that Nancy faces making some of the Dem base angry by doing her job very well. Fortunately, she's not running for higher office, so she'll keep on doing her job very well, even if those who don't get it will hate her.

She's used to it being a woman in power anyway. She's the right person in the right place at the right time.

office, so she can do what needs to be done without worrying about how angry many people are about her doing her job very well.

She doesn't give a fuck that anyone outside her peers and her constituents "hates her." This infuriates the GOP and their base - they're used to shutting down a "mouthy" woman by saying unflattering things about her and showing male disapproval. They also can't stand that a woman is running things, and doesn't worry about people 'not liking her." Same with Maxine Waters.

I think the GOP wants her to impeach now, while there's no chance of the Senate voting to oust him. They get to say that POTUS was the victim of a partisan witch hunt, just like they said would happen if the Dems took the house, they get to use that in the 2020 elections.

There is prep going on right now in congress, for such a time when "evidence and bi-partisan support" the conditions under which she would impeach, align. I think that she will make an announcement that "the people are demanding this" then the next moment she will whip out a hearing schedule, and report what subpoenas have dropped, and who will be testifying.

I'd rather her focus on landing the few torpedoes we have on target and at the right moment than optics. Fortunately, her peers in Congress and her constituents trust her judgement, and she's not running for higher office, so she can do the job they sent her to do.

I can handle waiting a little while longer. But how much I don't know. Do we wait until the FBI is totally discredited by half the country? And do we just trust that the 2020 election will be all cleaned up with no interference? Republicans don't even need the Russians anymore, they've learned a lot already. They are setting up fake news sites all over the net as we speak. So there is no guarantee we will win by twiddling our thumbs until 2020.

I'm willing to wait a bit, but there is a big danger in not acting soon enough too.

Yes its a gamble either way. Of course we know that Trump has already done countless things that would impeach any other President long ago...but cult of personality goes a long ways. So we know those cult followers will defend him to the death. But there are also "moderate" Republicans still out there (hopefully) whom if you did start proceedings, and start dragging all the dirty disgusting laundry of the Trump family into the light of day, for months, you have to have faith at some point in the people, at least the majority, to be affected when hearing the facts. As they did with Nixon.

This is another strategy, which would be more satisfying, to initiate impeachment hearings, and force the Republicans to listen along with the rest of the American public to all his sins laid out, and then let them DARE to not vote to convict. And if they did protect him, that in itself could be a rallying cry for our next candidate....that Republicans refuse to do what is right for the country, so now you have to vote him out. And the public would have the reasons still swimming in their heads from clips of the impeachment hearings.

I can get behind waiting until the right moment, hoping on the Mueller report. I am just worried, based on Nancy's previous conservative stances, that even when it is "the right moment", she will balk. That or decide that negotiating some pet legislation through is all she is willing to risk.

I just think it is very risky to go on the premise of "Well we COULD impeach him, believe us, we just don't feel like now" As that is interpreted, whether we like it or not as "We don't really have anything to impeach him for, and even if we might, we are scared of Fox News and Mitch McConnell" All the while Trump, and his minions, are crowing "See, I told ya. NO COLLUSION!!" Meanwhile, the Dems reputation as "spineless" with "undecided" voters is solidified.

To me, that is just as big a risk for Trump being re-elected as risking going all in exposing his crimes with a public impeachment.

"believe us, we just don't feel like now" is not what she said - she said that to impeach without "evidence or bi-partisan support" would be divisive, and DT isn't worth (it) which I believe that was referring to the Divisiveness. HE is not worth picking a fight we know that we will lose and divide the country further.

Why do you think Nancy will balk if there is enough evidence and bi-partisan support? I think she puts getting the job done above her "reputation" because her constituents and her peers know she's the one that can lead the House through this.

I will not second guess her, because a. it will do no good and have no effect, b. I don't have the decades of experience in Congress and with the GOP, or know where the bodies are buried, or have the smarts she does.

There is a lot of very ugly evidence piling up in those committees. She will bring it all out in mid 2020. Maybe after it is clear that the GOPosaurs are committed to the Mango Mussolini as their candidate. Then she will flood the media with all the sordid details. Result, the Dem candidate wins along with the Senate and the House. We need that to start repairing all the damage the libertarians have done to our government. The repairs are going to take decades.
It is not the conservative Republican party any more, it is the libertarian party. (Democracy in Chains, Dark Money)

K&R

doesn't mean ANYONE is against her. Nobody could do better. We're all human. Just wish she hadn't said that. The gop run from reporters. Maybe we should too, until we are ready to act?

hand wringing among Democrats, many here on DU, in this thread, that they are "not CALLING THIS LIAR OUT ON HIS LIES!!!!!!"

to select her as their leader makes her a much better judge of strategy.

I'll defer to her.

We're just expressing opinions here.

A woman with decades of experience, excellent intellect and a proven track record of successful leadership can be a better judge in what actions to take or not take than anonymous posters on a website! I mean really, what's with her measured, steady and rational leadership in the cat corral known as the House of Representatives?











Sarcasm

... then it'll never be.

How many examples do people in their 40s need that republicans screw up economies and dems at the least keep them stable?

Republicans screwing up economies have happened twice in my voting lifetime already and might happen a 3rd time seeing Red Don's stupidity.

into thinking he's safe and trapped the Republicans in a giant net. If Mueller happens to come out with crimes that are as close to treason as you can get, the Republicans are going to have a big choice to make. Stand with Pelosi and the good of the country or protect a felon and face the ensuing political ads. She's brilliant.

But "we" have to knee-jerk react to everything everyone ever says, especially Nancy Pelosi.

Pelosi is correct in not pushing for impeachment. she doesn't have the support or the votes in the senate. impeachment now would turn the orange asshole into the new martyr right wing jesus to his mouth breathing supporters.

first outcome: if the orange asshole gets "reelected" (with russian help yet again), the Dems, more than likely, will also have taken back the senate. then impeachment proceeding begin. because hoping for some sort of emotional and moral revelation from the right wing thus gaining their support; will never ever happen. they are all firmly implicated in whatever crooked shit the orange asshole is tied up in; themselves. we might get the odd 1 MAYBE 2 repukes to side with us right now, but that's it. we take back the senate, impeachment starts in full.

second outcome: the orange asshole loses big time in 2020. after the initial blood letting of the orange asshole calling it a crooked election and egging his morons supporters to take up arms, the many many many lawsuits currently investigating all the orange assholes crooked shit will come to bear. he will be in a world of shit, more so, I think, than if he was impeached.

And at the end of the day, I want him to feel the maximum about of pain and humiliation for the complete bullshit he put this nation through and I think that will happen via the second outcome.

Spoiler for Infinity War




















[link:

Her comments the other day officially neutered all Committee investigations. Why should they pursue something when she took impeachment off the table.

She gave trump and his allies a free pass to beat and abuse anyone that continues to investigate him.

She gave every witness an actual legal standing to deny a Committee request to appear. The Speaker of the House says "it's not worth it" so why do I need to appear? Is what they will say.

Most importantly, she told all the women and young girls he assaulted that impeachment isn't worth it.

Wealth and privilege wins again. Wins at getting into college. Wins when getting 47 months for stealing millions of dollars and lying. Wins when you conspire against the United States.

She stated that there would be no impeachment "until there is solid evidence and bi-partisan support."

Perhaps you missed that?

At some point, Democrats have to take decisive action against the perverse madman who currently passes for a U.S. President. I think Pelosi was a good choice for Speaker, and that she's done a good job up until now---but I think the "he's not worth it" comment lavished aid and comfort on trump that was completely unwarranted. Again and again, Democrats have failed to wield power in anything close to the ruthless fashion in which Republicans have, and trump is the result. If we're going to salvage what's left of this country, we better get at it, and damned soon.

He can be impeached. No doubt about it.

Wasted taxpayer money on a fools errand as long as Obama was in the White House, and there wasn't a veto proof majority.

I think we're smarter than that.

You’re comparing the impact of formal impeachment and all the public hearings that go along with it to a throwaway Republican Obamacare vote?

The other is an historical record that a President has committed impeachable offenses, and to hold him accountable.

Did the Republicans not impeach Clinton because he couldn't be removed because the Senate probably wouldn't go along? Absolutely not.

What is impeachment for, if not to impeach when serious impeachable offenses have occurred.

The parties pass bills all the time that they knew wouldn't pass, and certainly not with a veto proof majority. That's a standard thing, done all the time.

The House recently passed two budget bills, after Trump wouldn't sign the one that passed both houses. The House sent those to the Senate, knowing they wouldn't pass.

What she said was bad and not necessary- “not worth it and too divisive.” I will hope for the best but there is no guarantee dump will not be relected. None whatsoever. They could all get off with no or almost no repercussions.