General Discussion
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(35,354 posts)Blue Owl
(50,448 posts)n/t
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Damn
GP6971
(31,174 posts)I wonder what NZ's penalties are (jail time) for something so heinous. I'll have to look it up.
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)He'll get life.
GP6971
(31,174 posts)dustyscamp
(2,224 posts)I hope they at the very least restrict his tv/newspaper usage
mnmoderatedem
(3,728 posts)don't make him a martyr for fellow scum.
Celerity
(43,432 posts)GP6971
(31,174 posts)Response to ariesgem (Original post)
Post removed
BigmanPigman
(51,613 posts)of his "manhood". He didn't need to show us, we already guessed this was one of his problems.
Polybius
(15,461 posts)He's 28, not a minor.
Bettie
(16,111 posts)just a faceless asshole. No attention, no fame, just another faceless white supremacist asshole.
Just a killer. Nothing special.
Hekate
(90,734 posts)Squinch
(50,957 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)May have something to do with a presumption of innocence.
Brother Buzz
(36,448 posts)I'm guessing we won't see his face until he's convicted, or possible when he is properly arraigned.
forgotmylogin
(7,530 posts)There are screencaps from the video: He turned the camera around and talked to it in his car before going in.
He's nothing special to look at - just your everyday white supremacist who'd have fit right in at the tiki-torch rally.
meadowlander
(4,399 posts)so lots of people have name and/or face suppression until they are actually convicted.
In this case, the judge must have decided his name was already in the public domain but not to publicise his face and for the trial to be closed to the media. It's also why the police commissioner is so cagey about discussing the detail of the crimes - because nothing has been proven yet.
The reasons they gave were security but also, I imagine, to avoid further aggravating the victims. For example, the local news described how he was smirking the whole time and most local NZ press didn't use the "white power" shot but used photos taken before or after it.
The concern is not giving him a further platform to influence others.
malaise
(269,087 posts)Innocent until proven guilty - rest assured you'll see it when he is sentenced
UTUSN
(70,715 posts)Igel
(35,323 posts)All the references to previous killers, language copied and slightly edited from others, Internet allusions and memes, even the choice of music and call-outs.
He had a keenly ironic stance in his actions and writing. He'd write something, and then later flat-out contradict it. He'd make a claim, and then at the end make some tongue-in-cheek references that causes the reader "in the know" to reconsider whether he's been mislead or not. He's too self-conscious. He played to an audience while playing his audience.
Take what he says and does under advisement. He might mean it. He might not mean it. He might mean it in a way different from how you interpret it, but which his intended audience finds obvious. He might mean it but say things intended for you to conclude that he didn't mean it.
As the writer (of the webpage) went through parts of the manifesto, I found myself constantly at a loss. I didn't catch what were likely allusions that spoke to serious intent; they were just details that bore no meaning. Meanwhile, larger things that were obviously what he thought had bits sticking out that said, "You're a f--king idiot if you think this is serious, rope-a-dope." I can't read it; I lack the cultural background and ways to contextualize the document's content. I can't imagine sitting on a jury with that as evidence. It's like reading some arcane text--you need the parallel passage and textual commentary/critical apparatus to make your way through it, but then you're working off some expert testimony/interpretation and not the actual text. Haven't had something like that sprung on me since reading the Lay of Igor's Host in the original (?) Old Russian as a 3rd year student. (The opacity of which you'll see if you read a bit from an Internet translation. Good luck with the allusions. If it's a real tale, then the references were obvious and heads nodded at almost every word.)
That "OK" symbol, for instance, just wasn't a white-power symbol a few years ago. That's not disputable. The source of it as a white-power symbol has been clearly identified as a "first use" (and at that, as parody). After that, the extent to which somebody means in seriously and the extent to which they're taunting isn't always an empirically ascertainable question. Sometimes there's just no evidence. However, it also means that it's not a clear attribution for people who otherwise give no obvious evidence of overt neo-Nazi/white-power allegiance (except the ubiquitous "just look at the person, obviously they're a white supremacist" sort of non-evidence "evidence" .
Here's a bit of the Lay, for your edification (not the first part, which isn't that opaque, but which is all of one sentence long.)
(II) It was never fitting, brothers, for us to begin the story
of Igors campaign, Igor Sviatoslavich,
Using the ardent words of vexing tales.
This song should begin in accordance with the events of our own time
and not as a fantasy of Boian.
(III) For Boian was a wizard; when he wished to create a song,
He would move in all directions through the tree as a squirrel--
as a grey wolf along the ground,
as a dusky eagle beneath the clouds.
He remembered, he said, the wars of the first times.
He would free ten falcons to attack a flock of swans;
The first swan seized sang the first song
to old Iaroslav, to brave Mstislav who slew Rededia
as Cherkess troops looked on, to fair Roman Sviatoslavich.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Iggo
(47,561 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,085 posts)We didn't need this fool to confirm a thing.
radius777
(3,635 posts)The use of the WP white power sign (it is not the OK sign made by that gesture, just looks the same) by actual white nationalist groups long predated conservative social media claims that it was a just a hoax meme to 'trigger the libs'. The idea that it was a hoax was the hoax itself, a way for WN's and conservatives to 'play footsie' while spreading white nationalism.
RandiFan1290
(6,239 posts)I notice they are not as quick to defend this hand sign
Ponietz
(2,987 posts)Polybius
(15,461 posts)Whenever I see someone mean ok, they hold it up, around or above the head.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)...he's clearly just playing basketball.
dripping fucking
RandiFan1290
(6,239 posts)ariesgem
(1,634 posts)Link to tweet
?s=19
Cattledog
(5,916 posts)Typical loser who gets his bravado behind a gun.
FakeNoose
(32,659 posts)That way they couldn't throw their hand signals to their sick buddies.
radius777
(3,635 posts)Let this be a lesson not to swallow RW lies without doing actual research first. Other journalists DID do the proper research:
link
archived link
The 4chan post was picked up by the Anti-Defamation League, which apparently took it at face value, completely missing the years-long context of the OK sign which had already been established. The ADL published a post declaring the whole thing a hoax which has since been widely cited as evidence that crazy leftists are just seeing things when they point out far-right uses of the meme. But the ADL post is missing key information that the OK sign had acquired a far-right connotation and had even been identified as a hate symbol long before that 4chan hoax post.
So when a former White House aide named Zina Bash was accused of flashing the sign during confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh while seated directly behind him on September 4, an uproar arose on social media led by Twitter users claiming that she was making a surreptitious white power signal to knowing viewers.
Just as quickly, however, mainstream media accounts shut down discussion of the matter by referring to the established narrative, explaining the signals spread entirely as a 4chan hoax. Eventually the whole matter was dismissed as liberal silliness.
I would add that it is not the OK sign (calling it that only plays into the obufuscatory goal of the meme) but the WP sign when the RW uses in this context.