General Discussion

catbyte

(34,413 posts) Sat Mar 16, 2019, 10:47 AM Mar 2019

Exclusive: Washington Autopsy Files Reveal Lesin Sustained Broken Bone In Neck

WASHINGTON -- Mikhail Lesin, the former Russian press minister who turned up dead in a Washington hotel room in 2015, sustained a fracture to a neck bone just below the jaw line "at or near the time" of his death, according to documents released by the city's medical examiner that provide new details about his final days.

The finding does not provide clear-cut evidence of foul play in Lesin's death; another statement in the documents suggests the bone could have been damaged "after death" -- possibly during the autopsy.

That detail, however, and others contained in the 149-page file released exclusively to RFE/RL offer the most precise scientific description to date about Lesin's death, which officials ruled accidental and said was caused by blunt-force injuries amid excessive alcohol consumption.

Once a powerful media adviser to President Vladimir Putin, Lesin fell out of favor with the Kremlin elite sometime around 2012 and had lowered his public profile before he was discovered dead in the Dupont Circle Hotel, located a few blocks from the White House, on November 5, 2015.

snip

https://www.rferl.org/a/lesin-autopsy-record/29824566.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, right. All doctors performing autopsies completely crush the hyoid bone. Give me a goddamned break. It's shit like this that made manafort sell out America and what motivates mango mussolini today. They know what's up if they cross ol' Vlad.

11 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Exclusive: Washington Autopsy Files Reveal Lesin Sustained Broken Bone In Neck (Original Post) catbyte Mar 2019 OP

I'm totally on board with his death being foul play, but could this injury also happen with a fall? tanyev Mar 2019 #1

A bit of looking found this UpInArms Mar 2019 #3

Only if they were kicked in the throat while falling mercuryblues Mar 2019 #4

Thank you both for the info. tanyev Mar 2019 #6

I do animal autopsies for a living mrs_p Mar 2019 #2

If you had an animal mercuryblues Mar 2019 #5

Of course. Did I say something that mrs_p Mar 2019 #7

No,no, no, you didn't say that anything that would suggest that mercuryblues Mar 2019 #9

You are right! What kind of pathologist mrs_p Mar 2019 #10

exactly mercuryblues Mar 2019 #11

Broken hyoid bone is a sign of strangulation. LisaL Mar 2019 #8

tanyev

(42,584 posts)

1. I'm totally on board with his death being foul play, but could this injury also happen with a fall?

Reply to catbyte (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:01 AM

Mar 2019

UpInArms

(51,284 posts)

3. A bit of looking found this

Reply to tanyev (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:33 AM

Mar 2019

Hyoid bone fracture caused by blunt neck trauma

Hyoid bone fracture is usually the result of direct trauma to the neck because of manual strangulation, hanging, blunt trauma or projectiles. However, hyoid bone fracture caused by a fall has seldom been reported. We report the case of a young man who fell from 1.5 m while painting, which resulted as an isolated hyoid bone fracture. Hyoid bone fracture secondary to trauma may occur when a victim falls with a direct contusion of the neck.

1. Introduction
Blunt neck trauma is usually caused by motor vehicle accidents, strangulation, sport injuries or assaults. However, fracture of the hyoid bone is rare because it is protected by the mandible. In fact, most hyoid bone injuries are caused by strangulation.1 The management of patients with blunt neck contusion is difficult. This injury can cause rapid deterioration of a patient’s condition and can quickly become life-threatening. In most cases, a missed or delayed diagnosis can result in morbidity and death. The management of this injury has special considerations. Nevertheless, serious injuries following blunt neck trauma are not common.2, 3, 4

mercuryblues

(14,536 posts)

4. Only if they were kicked in the throat while falling

Reply to tanyev (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:45 AM

Mar 2019

The hyoid bone is protected by muscle and very hard to break. It requires a good amount of force, usually by choking, or some other trauma like a punch, airbag excreta.

On March 10, 2016, four months after Lesin's death, an initial report by the medical examiner's office declared Lesin died of blunt-force trauma to the head, neck, torso, upper and lower extremities, but said the manner of death was "undetermined."

It is impossible to get these injuries falling in your hotel room. No matter how drunk you are. Any coroner worth their paycheck would not "accidentally" break this bone.

tanyev

(42,584 posts)

6. Thank you both for the info.

Reply to mercuryblues (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:53 AM

Mar 2019

Hmmm.

mrs_p

(3,014 posts)

2. I do animal autopsies for a living

Reply to catbyte (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:32 AM

Mar 2019

Not humans. But it is totally conceivable that bone could get cut during the procedure. “Completely fractured” is harder to explain. Also, if I was doing a high profile autopsy (and I have), I would be so very careful so there would be no ambiguities in my findings.

mercuryblues

(14,536 posts)

5. If you had an animal

Reply to mrs_p (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:53 AM

Mar 2019

on your table, exhibiting all the other injuries, would you be extra careful in the neck area so you do not "accidentally" break the hyoid bone. Would you note upon examination the condition of the hyoid bone IE: intact, broken, fractured before moving on

mrs_p

(3,014 posts)

7. Of course. Did I say something that

Reply to mercuryblues (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:11 PM

Mar 2019

Would make you think I wouldn’t?

mercuryblues

(14,536 posts)

9. No,no, no, you didn't say that anything that would suggest that

Reply to mrs_p (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:41 PM

Mar 2019

I was asking because the article implies the coroner could have broken it.

The finding does not provide clear-cut evidence of foul play in Lesin's death; another statement in the documents suggests the bone could have been damaged "after death" -- possibly during the autopsy.

My response to that (upthread) was that any coroner, worth their paycheck would not "accidentally" break it. Just asking for verification

mrs_p

(3,014 posts)

10. You are right! What kind of pathologist

Reply to mercuryblues (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:47 PM

Mar 2019

Wouldn’t be extra careful? And “completely fractured?” What does that mean? The path would have had to do something weird. Not a clean cut like we’d see with an instrument.

mercuryblues

(14,536 posts)

11. exactly

Reply to mrs_p (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 01:08 PM

Mar 2019

A person that drunk can fall in a bathroom and bag their head on the tub. (even though I have found higher end hotels do not have a tub. Usually just a large shower stall.)

IMO what they do not do is get up. Fall again and again and again with enough force to have blunt forced trauma to their torso, legs, arms, and neck.

LisaL

(44,974 posts)

8. Broken hyoid bone is a sign of strangulation.

Reply to catbyte (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

Mar 2019

Reply to this discussion