... singing back-up.

he is indicted on several crimes.

... about Spanky's business dealings, it's not like he can go back to his old day job.

Even the most corrupt people in the NY real estate biz don't want to deal with someone they know regulators and the IRS are going to be scrutinizing from here on in.

Of course, Spanky is stupid enough to think his buddy Vlad will come through with the Trump Moscow Tower deal - which was never going to happen anyway.

VOTE!

Point is, once a President isn't President anymore, nobody cares and everything stops.

During Bush's reign there was lots similar discussions as to today. Lots of people were hoping for indictments and even being taken to the Hague after he left.

Although i agree with you that he's unlikely to go to jail. He'd be old as hell before any trial would be held. But to him, the humiliation of a trail & being found guilty is almost as bad as him going to jail. The dirty laundry being aired.

lot of people keeping a hell of a lot of secrets. K&R.

Pure bullshit ain’t pure for nothing.

if it were a "nothingburger".

If it were supportive of 45 you'd already be able to order it on Amazon.

And we know the White House didn't know by late this afternoon either.

Mueller's report is just another nail in the coffin, not a catch all. He's done a great job already making the Russian attack public and accountable but this report is not necessary to impeach. As I said further down we have Trump on 3 impeachable offenses already.

We know that WH loyalists said that the WH didn't know. How honest you you really think these monsters are?

that Trump and his whole family would be indicted. That this flies in the face of political and legal reality doesn't matter, they were CONVINCED on a very personal, visceral level.

That kind of emotional buy-in exacts a price if it doesn’t come to fruition, and we’re seeing that peculiar bit of psychology playing out in real time.

And then there are those who have been waiting in the wings to declare Mueller's report a "bust" no matter what it said. I think we're seeing a lot of that going around tonight.

The path is not difficult for one who has no preferences.

I will believe he is done when his orange stain has left the building.

I’ll wait here.

violating the emoluments clause. We must not wait to impeach. More will come after we open impeachment hearings. Pelosi must start holding presidents accountable or history will keep repeating itself and we might lose the House again for refusing to stand up for the law.

The point of an impeachment is either as a political embassment and distraction (Clinton) or a genuine attempt at removal from office, which would be the case with Trump, since it is impossible to embarrass him, and with his attention span of 30 seconds, he is already incapable of distraction.

Since Trump is immune to the two things Hyde tried to accomplish with Clinton (who left office with a very high approval rating after his Senate exoneration, by the way), the effect of his inevitable exoneration in the Senate would be to allow him to strut like a peacock after the "failed witch hunt" for the rest of his term and vindicate him in the eyes of his Foxsucking followers.

Much as I would like to see him impeached, I only want to see it if there is likelihood of conviction and removal from office (and Pence along with him as soon as Trump is escorted out of 1600). If all it will mean is that he can strut for his last year in office as the Wronged Warrior of the Right, then Pelosi is right: he isn't worth it.

... have a king every time a republican is in office seeing their poll numbers will never get down to Nixon level because there will be a mouth piece supporting the republican president.

No, that's wrong on its face ... there's no elected king in this country due to them having their own political mouth piece in FAUX News.

Last edited Sat Mar 23, 2019, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Roger Ailes was part of the Nixon White House, and to counterbalance the "libbrul" press and consistent mocking of Nixon on CBS (Smothers Brothers, e.g.) and NBC (Laugh In, e.g.), Ailes wanted a White House TV news channel, Soviet style. The idea was nixed, but Ailes never let it go completely. During the Clinton presidency, Murdoch and Ailes came up with the idea of a Republican TV "news" channel, and so Fox was born. The concept of one ruling party controlling the media so appealed to them ("Anti-kommanism" is myth, there is no party more like the CPUSSR than the Republicans), that they set about following the example of their Soviet role models, constrained only by that pesky First Amendment that they couldn't find a way to repeal.

... polling will always float 10% above where a despots is supposed to be.

Totalitarian-minded people (Ailes, e.g.) always admire totalitarian regimes that are solidly entrenched in power. In the Nixon era, the Soviet Union seemed like it would last forever.

Republicans may not understand exactly WHY they are so hated, but they are certainly dimly aware of it, and so feel the need to suppress criticism. There are insecurities that need to be assuaged, after all.

The Nixon Republicans knew how much they were despised, and they wanted to turn the tide of public opinion. The easiest way to do that is make sure the public HAS no other opinion than their own. To do that, you need to control the media. Go to some small town where the only TV station you see shown anywhere is Fox "News," and guess how that town votes? It does work.

Focus should be on defeating Trump in 2020, not on impeachment+removal, which has very low odds of happening with the 53-47 senate. Best to spend energy where a return on investment is most likely.

... ment.

A president can be impeached and not removed, rule of law needs to be aherred to or just let folk like the Trumps get away with some sick crap

nothingberder!!!!!!!

Just the principal conclusions would be adequate. No additional indictments from Mueller suggests there may be some work to be done in state courts and possibly sdny.
Satisfactory to me.

This has been years in the making and will take a long time to unravel it all. People will be going to jail out of the reach of a pardon.

History will tell the whole story.

or he's leaving it to DOJ and congress to impeach/remove/indict.

he most certainly has not "exonerated" drumpf. keep in mind he made deals with flynn and cohen for lesser sentences. prosecutors don't make deals unless they are getting something in return.

by the end of this weekend is whether or not Barr is an honorable man. The rest is yet to happen.

.

1. The end of the beginning

OR

2. The beginning of the end

...depending on who you listen to.

I tend to lean toward ...

3. The middle (at least for now I feel that we are smack in the middle...DAMN...my nerves are shot).

... between "sharing worries and concerns" and yelling, "Game over, man - GAME OVER!"

so true!

Don't worry. Be happy. Ignore reality. Don't rain on the parade. They have umbrellas anyway.

Thank you for the post! Some here freaking out about nothing with investigations in state AG hands, House investigations just getting started, and no one yet knows what is in the Mueller report. Damn I just wish some DUers would just settle down instead of freaking out!

it is not known what is in the report so let us all wait and see.

So....that’s an issue.

Other stuff came up. We know more about how Trump runs his world now. But we always knew he ran his company like the mafia.

Seriously.

Chances are pretty good that they’ve been doing so for years.

But without a clear connection to Trump showing that they were part of his campaign strategy? They don’t matter.

He thinks that acknowledging russian interference is the same as admitting he was working with them

The audience hasn't even been fully seated.

This is just the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.

Rosenstein letter to Grassley
https://www.justice.gov/ola/page/file/1080041/download

"We also have a duty to prevent the disclosure of information that would unfairly tarnish people who are not charged with crimes."

It's a bummer. You will wreck brunch joy for so many with that kind of logical and reasoned thinking.

I don't mean to wreck joy.
There were a number in the media saying things that are simply not likely to come to pass with this report - probably giving false hope or impressions.
If folks don't get too high, they won't crash so hard.

That there aren't a dozen more of the traitorous bastards in jail by now is depressing. Plus I think trump has had the report for at least a week. I think anything that they tell you is a lie.

My post in reply to yours was meant to be a satire of the pollyanna posts we keep seeing here on this thread. Sorry I didn't include the sarcasm emoticon.

Your concern is reasoned and well-supported. The unfounded glee we see on DU today is just cock-eyed optimism run rampant - sort of the way it was in November of 2016.

For example
- why did Manafort give campaign data to the Russians and not get held to account?
- why did the NRA appear to get Russian money and coordinate ads with the Trump campaign with it?
- why were there over 100 contacts with the Trump campaign and the Russians?
- what about the reports of Russian money getting into GOP campaigns?
- why all the lying by nearly everyone about the Russians?
- what about the audio tape of Paul Ryan and GOPers laughing about Trump & Rohrabacher being paid by Putin?
etc

The Americans people not getting answers to those questions in this report because no one was indicted for those things. Not getting those answers and answers to questions like them will be an outrage.

Trump and his folks and FOX News may well celebrate no more Mueller indictments but if folks don't get clear answers, this thing is going to start to stink real bad and that stench will follow them right into the voting booths across the country.

The mueller report says you can never trust any godam repubican.

... as most people with a functioning brain have known that for decades.

mueller just handed 2020 to trump. Nothing has been done to prevent a repeat of 2016. mueller was our last hope and everyone knows it. Now this bullshit news dump no indictment after TWO YEARS of waiting and hoping.

We're done. It's over. There will be no indictments other than the few low level clowns already charged. This report will be another Warren Report, another Iran Contra - nothing will be done and we'll all go along as if none of this ever happened. Just like before. Just like always.

You jump to no indictment(s), and from there you jump to a defeat on November 3, 2020, without knowing if Mueller recommends indictments or not, and if not, why he chose not to bring indictments, or if the House investigations will reveal the crimes of the orange mob boss and his corrupt family or not (THEY WILL). That's two big jumps based on a report nobody knows its contents (yet).

We know some things that are NOT in the report.

That’s the problem.

I've seen this act a few times before. When it goes on this long this far past the point of absurdity, nothing is going to happen.

It's all a kabuki show at this point.

When the report is made public we'll see that in the middle of all the legalese, Trump is a fat, whiny, lying, cheating, con man third grader that has turned assholery into a science. But we already knew that, didn't we?

Because we know nothing about the report or its conclusions or recommendations.

They're experts at knowing that declaring what's contained in a report that no one has seen yet is a dumbass move.

The verdict is in: When you have absolutely no way of knowing what a report says, you make a fool of yourself when you insist that you DO know.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

... does insisting one knows what is contained in an as-yet undisclosed report add to the discussion?

I've been here more than a decade longer than you - I think I know what DU is, and how it works. But thanks for pointing out the obvious nonetheless.

... I'm a "DU Legend" ...

you have been mouthing off all evening.....you are fast becoming looking like a fool! Good grief......have respect for other's opinions!

Was that meant to be ironic?

But a lot of people are pointing out that reacting to non-facts as though they were facts is completely pointless.

This is reminiscent of the panicky guy on David Letterman lol.

There’s still a chance there is some new revelation that makes GOPers condemn trump and call for his removal from office, but we likely already know or suspect the worst. Yet, GOPers don’t appear to care.

We need to turn our attention to beating GOPers in 2020, and let this go (even if hoping the report, or other actions, somehow bring trump down).

... we type.

One of the reasons we have to "let this go" is we let little shit go and KGOP runs right over it. We get rid of the fairness doctrine and the KGOP gets its own TV network that keeps the presidents poll numbers floating 35 - 45 instead in the mid 20s like Nixon.

We "let this go" and we get screwed nearly every time

Democrats would look like losers to a lot of voters. If you don't have the votes and aren't likely to get them, why go for failure?

Beat the POS at the polls.

...way seeing the KGOP has a mouth piece who aren't going to vote DNC in numbers.

"looking like losers" is a done deal when the guy who takes kids from parents seeking help is still floating in the 40's seeing they have a mouth piece which Nixon didn't have.

Do what's right and enforce the rule of law

Their last two first-term wins where EC because millions of liberal voters don't or can't (or don't care to) vote.

GOTV and the orange mob boss who doesn't give a shit about laws and who think he is above it if he shot someone on 5th Avenue will not win 2020, but get thrown in jail for life.

She laughed.

"The law doesn't mean what it says. It means what a judge says it says."

It removes the very idea of judicial interpretation into the specialist's camp, and treats all legal wording as jargon and cant. While I think that this is an insane way to run a country, nonetheless many lawyers delight in coming up with the most twisted, self-serving interpretation of language, using the most arcane methods, to win their cases. In fact, they delight in hard cases because they often make bad, albeit self-serving and distorted, case law. It means a regular, educated adult cannot hope to actually read the law and have any certainty as to what's legal or illegal.

No court has actually ruled on what "emoluments" in the emoluments clause means.

dozens of indictments on the day of the report and there were none.

So they felt let down.

But by not recognizing the legal and political realities, they set themselves up for that ultimate disappointment. That's on them, not on Mueller.

The fat man is warming up their voice. Give it a few days and you will be back here removing this thRead.

You don’t need the actual report to see how trump and crew are interpreting this and believe me. They all have seen the core of the report. The Jeff sssions cabinet chair thing was a ploy

I have never gone back and deleted a thread after the fact. And I won't be deleting this one.

How Trump and crew "interpret" Mueller's report is of no consequence whatsoever.

They recently "interpreted" Manafort's judge as having declared there was no collusion between Trump and the Russians. Was that true? No. Was that what the judge actually said? No.

The RW spin has been in full force for two years - it didn't stop Mueller, it isn't stopping the SDNY, and it won't stop the Democratic-held House from pursuing further investigations.

Good to know.

Just asking ...

Tell 'em, Nance!

And I saw it coming.

I NEVER understood the sudden praise, worship and adoration for a lifelong Republican like people have done with Mueller the last 2 years. But we've been doing the same with McCain so actually I guess I'm not really surprised.

Fifteen years ago, most of DU was ready to send Mueller to the Hague for his (relatively minor) role in helping Dubya manufacture the Iraq War. Then, suddenly, the day Rosenstein appointed him, he became the noblest and most incorruptible Hand of Justice in history.

Because we seem to enjoy doing the GOp's work for them. If it is a nothing burger, let the GOP spend effort to reduce it to that, which in the process means they will have to risk-making the mistakes that will very often turn out to be worse than what they were trying to cover up.

This is like the way many people thought Obama was going to shoot magic bullets instead of begin thehard work of making the GOP lose.

And absent incontrovertible proof from Mueller that Trump single-handedly butchered an entire school bus of children, there ain't going to be any binding action by Congress. Impeachment is off the table. Dem leadership has already made it as clear as they can that the strategy is to spend two years campaigning by bleeding Trump slow with Congressional investigations. Nadler and Schiff are going to spend the next two years posturing on TV as they fight endless tit-for-tat stonewalling from the White House. Meanwhile, Trump will do as he pleases and sit in the Oval Office until January 2021 at the earliest.

This whole thing is going to kick some Repuke butt!

There are more than a dozen other misdeeds that could be deemed as impeachable offenses. However, I'm hearing a reluctants from our leaders of both houses to go down that road. This is most disturbing.

... is the end of the beginning.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1109203639581712386.html

He charged a bunch of people with things unrelated to the Trump campaign colluding with Russia.

and thank you. Nance, you're always the voice of reason. It was disappointing to see seasoned posters reacting like chicken little yesterday. These posters acted as if they received a personal copy of the Mueller report and Trump was completely exonerated. It became hard to tell the trolls from the regulars. I got tired of having to trash posts and ignore posters, that I just came off DU.

They rush in like cockroaches in the dark.

Thank you Nance!

Mueller report feel hopeless and anxiety takes hold, can come to this site for solace. Don't berate, but embrace as so many posters have who have reassured us that all is not loss. Their loyalty to our party is not wavering and you cannot blame them when it seems their hopes to remove a monster from the White House are fading. Thank you again DU members who understand our angst and are willing to help us come down from the edge. Kudos to all those who in their strength are not fazed, but please do not belittle others.

are frought with worry, is just plain kind.

Not everyone is wired the same way.

Not sure she understands that's not how this site works.

... I asked that those who were posting as though they know what is in the Mueller report were getting their information. Asking a question does not constitute speaking on behalf of others.

(BTW, that 252,000 number includes every person who ever signed-up on DU, and is a far cry from the number of people currently participating. Sadly, the number of people posting here has been in a steep decline for years.)

Don't worry. Be happy.

Barr just sent amended report to Congress!

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Odd, huh?

necessity be redacted to protect the CI sources, and will represent an intermission as some experts have expressed. The real vulnerability of tRump is in following the money. That is being done by the ongoing House investigations, by SDNY and by NY state. Sure we all know that in all likelihood tRump is guilty of impeachable crimes, but because of the current makeup of the Senate they unfortunately have become part of the political theatre. The fight over thr Mueller report will continue, but it’s the public exposure of his crimes by the ongoing investigations that will humiliate and bring him to his just rewards. For surviving that process patience is the required ingredient. Just one layperson’s opinion.

The orange mob boss who thinks he's above the law if he shot someone on 5th Avenue will lose in November 2020 and get what he deserves. Prison for the rest of his pathetic life.

But they do see how the people who DO know whats in it are reacting.


We'll know -why- they are reacting the way they do soon enough.

But for right now all we see are the Republicans relaxing.

No the fat lady isn't singing. She soaking in the hot tub relaxing with Republicans in Florida.

Be it the next president or a prosecutor. I hope the goods are in the report but I'd rather read it first before I set my hair on fire.

their poop chute. Anybody who calls the report a "bust" is clearly spreading disinformation to cast doubt on the report. Anybody who claims the report has exonerated anyone is spreading propaganda for the Trump administration.

In 54 well-observed remarks, he dismantles the mythology and media hype being spun around the so-called end of Mueller's investigation.

[link:

Link to tweet

He's elaborately dancing around the simple truth that the criminal side of the Russia investigation is over. Done. Finished. Not a single administration official will be charged. Fin.

Yes, there are counterintelligence investigations ongoing. Those aren't criminal investigations, they are all classified, and the results will eventually get dropped into our vast intelligence stockpile. They won't lead to indictments of Trump or his administration.

Yes, there are other investigations at SDNY and elsewhere. We have no idea what results they will produce, but we DO know they won't produce any indictments over Russia or obstruction of the Russia investigation.

Yes, there are Congressional investigations ongoing. There are ALWAYS congressional investigations ongoing. The results will be politically relevant, and that's all.

At the end of the day, not a single American will be charged on the core issues of conspiracy with Russia and obstruction. That kind of takes the air out of th cottage industry Abramson has been building for himself for the last two years.

If I took your view I wouldn't need to vote, since the outcome appears to be pre-ordained by forces we cannot influence...And I thought we were a fact based community at DU forum.

I recall that it took over 2 years to investigate and prosecute the events and people involved in Watergate. That is after Nixon's resignation and pardon led to a reduced investigative focus and the essential whitewash of the GOP funding and dirty tricks apparatus.

Far more has been made public than during Watergate. There is a much more widespread range of investigation results yet to be prosecuted in SDNY and by the NY AG. Trump may well set a personal record for the number of times his name appears on felony warrants, time required to prosecute all charges, on the range of warrant subjects and jurisdictions. This is to say nothing of what the members of his family appear to headed for.

There is no simple truth except that Trump is at the heart of an enormous and international criminal enterprise. The Fraud charges against the Trump organization in NY are criminal and felonious. That investigation alone will get him and his time at Sing Sing or another equally commodious state institution.

We have many more battles to fight before we can declare victory.

While we don't know the contents of the report, from what I've read, it is confirmed the are no more indictments coming from Mueller. That is extremely disappointing. That means no one is getting indicted for lying about the Trump tower meeting. That means assange isn't getting indicted. It means that while manafort admitted to giving polling data to kilimnik and lying about it, none of the charges are related to collusion. This is disappointing and people have a right to feel that way.

for your insight and truth.

Still, Carville is younger than Bernie who only seems to know the best people of late like David Sirota. Was superficial thinking somehow bred into the American population?

And even if the report doesn't come up with a contract between trump and putin signed in blood, that doesn't exonerate him. A mob boss should not be POTUS.

...after the faculty of Trump University approves it!