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brooklynite

(94,776 posts)
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:13 PM Mar 2019

One million join march against Brexit as Tories plan to oust May

the Guardian


In one of the biggest demonstrations in British history, a crowd estimated at over one million people yesterday marched peacefully through central London to demand that MPs grant them a fresh referendum on Brexit.

The Put it to the People march, which included protesters from all corners of the United Kingdom and many EU nationals living here, took place amid extraordinary political turmoil and growing calls on prime minister Theresa May to resign. Some cabinet ministers are considering her de facto deputy David Lidington as an interim replacement for her, although as pro-Remain he would be strongly opposed by Brexiters.

...snip...

As Conservative MPs and ministers from both sides of the Brexit argument said May could not last in office for many more days – and Downing Street appeared to threaten them with a general election if her deal does not pass this week – Heseltine laid blame for the current crisis at her door. “Generals who lose wars blame the troops. Managers who break their companies blame the workers. Now we can add prime ministers who lose elections blame their MPs,” he said.
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theboss

(10,491 posts)
1. We on the Left are really good at reacting to votes
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:46 PM
Mar 2019

Apparently, the actual voting part is a problem.

AlexSFCA

(6,139 posts)
2. Where were they during the vote??
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 10:48 PM
Mar 2019

Britain has no voter suppression. Brexit means complete exit from EU and all of its obligation including eliminating trade.

at140

(6,110 posts)
4. If evidence surfaces that ballots were mis-handled or
Sat Mar 23, 2019, 11:10 PM
Mar 2019

ballot fraud evidence exists in enough quantity to overturn results, then
another referendum vote would be highly justified. But holding
another referendum simply because people have changed their
minds is not how democratic institutions should operate.

brooklynite

(94,776 posts)
5. There is NO evidence of ballot fraud...
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:19 AM
Mar 2019

As people here love to point out, ballots are paper, dropped into sealed boxes under supervision of polling staff and counted in the presence of representatives of both parties.

AlexSFCA

(6,139 posts)
6. Exactly, the vote was 100% legitimate
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:34 AM
Mar 2019

those who didn’t vote should bear consequences for the rest of their lives, there is no do over. Trump can be voted out, brexit is permanent. Norway and Switzerland are not part of EU either and they are doing just fine. UK will find a way to survive. Yes, it their economy will suck for a decade or so. EU should stay strong and make example of Britain - you leave EU, your economy will be ruined for generation. This must be a lesson for other countries or EU will be broken down like Putin wants.

at140

(6,110 posts)
9. I am hoping for paper ballots to become the rule here
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:26 PM
Mar 2019

at least as a backup, before I kick the bucket.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. Russia snowed the electorate with a blizzard of its version of
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:54 PM
Mar 2019

their right-wing propaganda. Of course democracies don't ordinarily hold redo votes, but this is a special situation, not only because one side wants a retry at winning.

SFCA, if it was 2 months later perhaps, but the Brits have had over 2-1/2 years to think this enormous decision over now, an exit is far from settled, and asking the electorate to decide is not inappropriate. Democracy is supposed to be government of, by and for the people, not a machine of oppression. "The people only get one chance and they have to suffer the consequences of that decision" isn't a democratic principle.

And it's not even all that unfair to the UK's right wing or to Russia, who have all been able to continue their propaganda blizzards 24/7/1003. (I looked that up -- 1003 days since the vote.) If it's the decision a genuine majority votes for again after all this time, that will be established and move on.

Myrddin

(327 posts)
8. One example why.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 06:29 AM
Mar 2019

I'm a Brit citizen, and I've been frequently (not entirely) working abroad for the last couple of decades. as such, I fell foul of the '15 year rule' so I was not 'allowed' to vote in the referendum. Some estimates had another 2 million Brits in the same trap?

The 15 year rule says that if you have not been registered to vote in the last 15 years you lose your right to vote in elections, including the referendum. We Brits are not allowed to register at our Embassies, for voting, like many other countries' citizens, we need to be resident in UK. This anomaly was brought up in Parliament when the ref was being legislated. It was disregarded because the ref was 'not' binding, only 'advisory'?

Britain does indeed practice voter suppression, I'm living proof.

at140

(6,110 posts)
10. Who made up that rule?
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:30 PM
Mar 2019

Britain had no dictators in recent history, so I am guessing it was approved by the duly elected parliament and signed on by whoever signs in UK, the PM or her majesty. Democratic countries don't always do everything 100% right. But it beats dictatorships.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. Their right wing, of course. I'd bet my pocketbook on it.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 02:19 PM
Mar 2019

But the choice for members of democracies need NOT be selective voter disenfranchisement OR dictatorships. Obviously.

DFW

(54,447 posts)
7. I think at this point, May must have gotten the message. She just doesn't like the message.
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 03:52 AM
Mar 2019

The longer this carries on, the more obvious it becomes that the people of the UK think they were misled three years ago, and want to hold a new referendum, one that will be closely monitored for outside influences and for level of participation. I notice Nigel Farage has no plans for his dual national children to renounce their German citizenship, which would allow them the right to live and work in Germany or anywhere else in the EU, something the rest of British children would no longer enjoy.

German TV recently had a long documentary outlining outside influence in the "leave" movement. Farage didn't exactly make any huge efforts to discourage the notion when he soon showed up at a Trump rally in Alabama before the 2016 election.

The EU high court recently ruled that if the UK wanted to vote to annul the whole Brexit and return to the fold, they were perfectly welcome to do so. The fierce resistance in the UK to such a vote is the clearest indication yet that the vote could overwhelmingly be to remain in the EU, and the Brexiteers know it. Like the Republicans in the US--where they know a fairly held vote would go against them, they suppress it. No wonder Farage and Trump are such good buddies.

at140

(6,110 posts)
11. All elections presage "buyer be aware" rule...
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 12:40 PM
Mar 2019

Politicians lie all the time during campaigns. But we don't cancel legal elections and do them over because some politician made false promises. It is the duty of all voters to get familiar with the issues, and the candidate they are going to vote for. I personally have no dog in the Brexit fight. No one in my family or friends is affected by Brexit. But even sitting in my man-cave in far away Florida I think I understood what Brexit meant. It was breaking away from European Union. If some voters in Briton did not understand that simple fact, whose fault it is? I can surmise some businesses in Briton will be adversely affected and some will benefit from Brexit. Nothing in life is pure, except perhaps a mother's love for her kids.

DFW

(54,447 posts)
12. Brexit was a referendum, not a binding election
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:37 PM
Mar 2019

The politicians played with it, and outside interference was pretty well documented. But the EU high court did give Britain an out, and the UK has every right to take advantage of it. This is not a presidential election in the USA.

Brexit wasn't even laid out to the UK voters what it meant in detail because no negotiations had been held up to then. They voted for a concept more than anything else. It wasn't even made clear to the voters that the referendum was binding, and they had no way to know it. Supposedly, Parliament was to give the final word. That is why so many stayed home.

Unlike you, I live in the EU, visit the UK occasionally, and many of our friends here (Germany in my case) do lots of business with the UK, which will turn into a bureaucratic nightmare if the UK leaves. The UK also stood out as a voice of reason when the EU bureaucracy got too overbearing (and it is). I will miss that badly. It's not "some" businesses in the UK that will be affected. It is all major businesses in the UK that will be affected. The financial sector, with hundreds of thousands of high-paying jobs is fast melting away. British products, sold by the billions to the EU, will now be subject to Trump-style customs tariffs, making them a hard sell in the EU. The only ones that will benefit will be those few that only cater to the domestic market. In the EU, that's almost nobody these days. This is not win some, lose some. This is win a few peanuts and lose the farm. Great if you like peanuts, lousy if you live or work on the farm.

at140

(6,110 posts)
13. Like I said some businesses will be adversely affected by Brexit
Sun Mar 24, 2019, 01:45 PM
Mar 2019

and some will benefit. It is the same thing with tariffs on Chinese imports here in USA.
I expect those affected adversely by Brexit to squeal like wounded piglets. No surprise there.

The point remains valid....voters be aware! There are no easy do-overs after voting is over,

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