General Discussion

sheshe2

(83,914 posts) Mon Mar 25, 2019, 07:45 PM Mar 2019

So before we lose our minds over the Mueller Investigation.

So before we lose our minds over the Mueller Investigation. Let’s not forget even with no “new” indictments. There are 57 “sealed” indictments. There are 17 ongoing investigations related to Trump and his minions. This isn’t close to being over... - fields804 tweet

http://all-hat-no-cattle.blogspot.com/2019/03/i-want-to-read-mueller-report-not-barr.html

You're Welcome.

32 replies

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So before we lose our minds over the Mueller Investigation. (Original Post) sheshe2 Mar 2019 OP

Maybe, Polly Hennessey Mar 2019 #1

There are no sealed indictments from Mueller nt Azathoth Mar 2019 #2

You don't know that. sheshe2 Mar 2019 #6

Yes, we do. No sealed indictments. Azathoth Mar 2019 #7

I most certainly do not deserve your rude answer. sheshe2 Mar 2019 #10

Even Barr's letter doesn't address the possibility of sealed indictments brought pnwmom Mar 2019 #16

It doesn't rule out the possibility of non-sealed indictments in other investigations either Azathoth Mar 2019 #21

My point is that you said there were no sealed indictments, but there could have been some pnwmom Mar 2019 #25

From the article: sarisataka Mar 2019 #9

sealed indictments intelpug Mar 2019 #11

Barr? sheshe2 Mar 2019 #12

Your case is a conspiracy theory... Not helpful zaj Mar 2019 #14

You know everything the State of NY has? sheshe2 Mar 2019 #15

To be fair... FBaggins Mar 2019 #26

Yep, no sealed indictments zaj Mar 2019 #13

True. The Barr Spin does say that SC obtained no sealed indictments yet to be made public. better Mar 2019 #19

better intelpug Mar 2019 #30

Well, these are gloomy times. better Mar 2019 #31

This. Recommended. Tipperary Mar 2019 #3

Hey, she. Control-Z Mar 2019 #4

No, Control-Z sheshe2 Mar 2019 #8

NYT reported that there are no sealed indictments re: Mueller. TwilightZone Mar 2019 #5

That was one of my first thoughts over the weekend - no "new" indictments, but.... George II Mar 2019 #17

Ha! sheshe2 Mar 2019 #18

There aren't. theboss Mar 2019 #29

i don't really know how this works but......... Takket Mar 2019 #20

Actually Mueller is still on the job, and the investigations aren't over yet. His people... George II Mar 2019 #22

There were never sealed indictments theboss Mar 2019 #28

Thank you for the gentle reminder. I swear the past two days I have wanted to post... Hekate Mar 2019 #23

Geeze. sheshe2 Mar 2019 #24

There are no sealed indictments from Mueller theboss Mar 2019 #27

They don't have to be from Mueller. sheshe2 Mar 2019 #32

Polly Hennessey

(6,806 posts)

1. Maybe,

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 07:51 PM

Mar 2019

given enough time they will self-destruct. That is the only hope I can imagine. We cannot outwitt them or outplay them. We’ve been trying for a long time and have never succeeded.

Azathoth

(4,611 posts)

2. There are no sealed indictments from Mueller nt

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 07:54 PM

Mar 2019

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

6. You don't know that.

Reply to Azathoth (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:40 PM

Mar 2019

Nearly three dozen sealed criminal indictments have been added to the federal court docket in Washington, D.C. since the start of 2018.

Sealed criminal court files are assigned a case number, but do not indicate the identity of the parties or the nature of the charges, so it is impossible for the public to discern what those sealed cases contain.

But several legal experts told ABC News the number of sealed cases awaiting action right now is unusual. Fourteen were added to the docket since late August alone, a review by ABC News has found, just as the midterm elections were drawing near and longstanding Justice Department policy precluded prosecutors from taking any public action that could appear to be aimed at influencing political outcomes.

And the inadvertent discovery on Thursday night of what appear to be secret charges pending against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has drawn fresh attention to the mystery.

It is important to keep in mind that no one knows whether these sealed indictments are part of Mueller’s investigation. But as the report suggests, many were added during the time right before the midterm elections, when Justice Department policy discourages any public action that could interfere with the outcomes.

If any of those sealed indictments came from Mueller’s team, it was wise on the part of prosecutors to submit them prior to the midterm elections. The Special Counsel can only indict someone with the approval of the attorney general. Prior to the midterms, Deputy AG Rosenstein was overseeing the investigation. On the day after the elections, Trump appointed Matt Whitaker as Acting Attorney General. He would have been the one to approve any indictments since November, with AG Barr taking over the responsibility after he was confirmed last week.

More: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/02/21/are-sealed-indictments-muellers-backstop/

Azathoth

(4,611 posts)

7. Yes, we do. No sealed indictments.

Reply to sheshe2 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:44 PM

Mar 2019

Stop with the conspiracy shit. The days of looking at the docket and playing "could this one be from Mueller?" are over. The answer is: none of them were from Mueller.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

10. I most certainly do not deserve your rude answer.

Reply to Azathoth (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:52 PM

Mar 2019

"Stop with the conspiracy shit."

How do you know, are you a member of Mueller's team? If not, then you don't.

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)

16. Even Barr's letter doesn't address the possibility of sealed indictments brought

Reply to Azathoth (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:54 PM

Mar 2019

by prosecutors in the other jurisdictions to which Mueller farmed out parts of his investigation.

Azathoth

(4,611 posts)

21. It doesn't rule out the possibility of non-sealed indictments in other investigations either

Reply to pnwmom (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:22 PM

Mar 2019

It says nothing about other investigations. What's your point?

pnwmom

(108,995 posts)

25. My point is that you said there were no sealed indictments, but there could have been some

Reply to Azathoth (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:18 PM

Mar 2019

Mueller-instigated indictments in other jurisdictions.

sarisataka

(18,774 posts)

9. From the article:

Reply to sheshe2 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:48 PM

Mar 2019

It is important to keep in mind that no one knows whether these sealed indictments are part of Mueller’s investigation.

intelpug

(88 posts)

11. sealed indictments

Reply to sheshe2 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:14 PM

Mar 2019

No,
First page, toward the end of fourth paragraph of Barr's Letter. "Nor did special counsel obtain any sealed documents that have yet to be made public" " that have yet to be made public" In other words we have seen all the sealed indictments that Mueller had already

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

12. Barr?

Reply to intelpug (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:30 PM

Mar 2019

Why would you believe anything trump's bought and paid for troll has to say? The man has a history of cover-ups.

https://www.alternet.org/2019/03/trumps-ag-bill-barr-has-a-history-of-cover-ups-and-he-just-struck-again/

Trump’s AG Bill Barr has a history of cover-ups — and he just struck again

Back in 1992, the last time Bill Barr was U.S. attorney general, iconic New York Times writer William Safire referred to him as “Coverup-General Barr” because of his role in…
Back in 1992, the last time Bill Barr was U.S. attorney general, iconic New York Times writer William Safire referred to him as “Coverup-General Barr” because of his role in burying evidence of then-President George H.W. Bush’s involvement in “Iraqgate” and “Iron-Contra.”

I rest my case.

zaj

(3,433 posts)

14. Your case is a conspiracy theory... Not helpful

Reply to sheshe2 (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:35 PM

Mar 2019

Accept the facts. Hold out hope that we can win in 2020. Work our asses off to make it happen.

Win over voters by not spinning out into QAnon land.

There are not 57 “sealed” indictments.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

15. You know everything the State of NY has?

Reply to zaj (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:42 PM

Mar 2019

Your post is accusatory and an outright personal attack.

Night.

FBaggins

(26,760 posts)

26. To be fair...

Reply to sheshe2 (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:27 PM

Mar 2019

... you're the one who started the thread with a claim of 57 sealed indictment, yet haven't backed up the claim.

Barr isn't the only one saying that there are none. Major news organizations are reporting the same thing.

And, of course, there's the question of why he would release a report like this without pressing any of those indictments.

The burden here is on you.

zaj

(3,433 posts)

13. Yep, no sealed indictments

Reply to intelpug (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 09:30 PM

Mar 2019

better

(884 posts)

19. True. The Barr Spin does say that SC obtained no sealed indictments yet to be made public.

Reply to intelpug (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:20 PM

Mar 2019

But are we properly scrutinizing both the context in which that was said, and what was quite cleverly not said. Take note, for example, that the mention of SC having obtained no sealed indictments that have yet to be made public immediately follows mentioning that SC also referred several (unspecified) matters to other offices for further action. And that the spin says that Special Counsel obtained no sealed indictments yet to be made public, not that those other offices obtained none.

I'm not saying that there are necessarily a bunch of sealed indictments still to drop, but let's never forget that convincing us there are none we should be expecting by saying true things without disclosing the whole truth, so that they can more easily kill those investigations without us noticing is exactly the kind of play we know we should be on the lookout for from anyone Trump would appoint as AG at this point.

intelpug

(88 posts)

30. better

Reply to better (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:35 PM

Mar 2019

You could be quite right about what other jurisdictions have in hand concerning this matter, sorry, not meaning to be gloomy, this was just a dry dispassionate observation on my part on what Barr told congress in that letter

better

(884 posts)

31. Well, these are gloomy times.

Reply to intelpug (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:41 PM

Mar 2019

I'm just trying to shine a light on some of the things the gloom is trying to conceal!

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)

3. This. Recommended.

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 07:55 PM

Mar 2019

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)

4. Hey, she.

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:04 PM

Mar 2019

Can you explain to me what "there are 57 “sealed" indictments" means? Do we know anything about who they're for? Or what they're about? And who has those answers if they're secret? I don't know anything, really, when it comes to legal stuff.

I want to jump up and down and thank you for the OP and the link but I don't know what it means.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

8. No, Control-Z

Reply to Control-Z (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:44 PM

Mar 2019

Sealed criminal court files are assigned a case number, but do not indicate the identity of the parties or the nature of the charges, so it is impossible for the public to discern what those sealed cases contain.

They are sealed as explained above. No one knows other than the party that filed them. One can only hope the kiddies are going down along with trump.

TwilightZone

(25,485 posts)

5. NYT reported that there are no sealed indictments re: Mueller.

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 08:30 PM

Mar 2019

Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any in other jurisdictions.

"On Friday, when the news broke that Mueller wasn’t recommending any more indictments, many of us immediately asked whether there were sealed indictments. There weren’t."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/opinion/mueller-report-trump.html

George II

(67,782 posts)

17. That was one of my first thoughts over the weekend - no "new" indictments, but....

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:09 PM

Mar 2019

....a shitload of "old" sealed indictments.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

18. Ha!

Reply to George II (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:19 PM

Mar 2019

Perfect, George.

It ain't over.

theboss

(10,491 posts)

29. There aren't.

Reply to George II (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:34 PM

Mar 2019

There is no pony under all this manure.

Takket

(21,629 posts)

20. i don't really know how this works but.........

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:20 PM

Mar 2019

now that Mueller has essentially "walked off the job", doesn't that mean there are no sealed indictments? Or at least if there were, he is not going to act on them?

I mean... he isn't SC anymore... so who would "unseal the indictments"?

I assume they can't just sit there forever like a ticking time bomb. Someone has to DO something with them in a reasonable amount of time, right?

Again.... I have no idea how this works LOL

George II

(67,782 posts)

22. Actually Mueller is still on the job, and the investigations aren't over yet. His people...

Reply to Takket (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:29 PM

Mar 2019

....are still interviewing witnesses, there are still outstanding subpoenas, and there will be more indictments. Just today the Supreme Court ruled on an outstanding Mueller subpoena:

Supreme Court won't hear appeal from company resisting Mueller subpoena

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142291812

theboss

(10,491 posts)

28. There were never sealed indictments

Reply to Takket (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:33 PM

Mar 2019

That was a fantasy.

Hekate

(90,817 posts)

23. Thank you for the gentle reminder. I swear the past two days I have wanted to post...

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:56 PM

Mar 2019

"You have all lost your fucking minds." Many many times.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

24. Geeze.

Reply to Hekate (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:06 PM

Mar 2019

I know, Hekate. Painful to read the doom and gloom.

theboss

(10,491 posts)

27. There are no sealed indictments from Mueller

Reply to sheshe2 (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:32 PM

Mar 2019

The whole sealed indictment drama was created by people who don’t understand the federal courts.

sheshe2

(83,914 posts)

32. They don't have to be from Mueller.

Reply to theboss (Reply #27)

Mon Mar 25, 2019, 11:45 PM

Mar 2019

That is why we can look to NY NY.

Trump knows this firsthand, because of a previous tangle with former attorney general Eric Schneiderman. The state sued Trump University for defrauding customers in a case that was settled for $25 million. And because Trump ran for office, opening his businesses to a whole new level of national scrutiny, the Trump Foundation lawsuit may have only been the beginning. Before he resigned last year, Schneiderman was reportedly cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller on matters related to Mueller’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, and state tax officials said they’re looking into potential massive tax fraud by the Trump family after reporting from The New York Times last fall. Meanwhile, New York’s new attorney general, Letitia James campaigned on a promise to hold the president accountable across a wide range of issues, including his businesses and finances.

“The Mueller investigation is the shiny object everyone is watching,” Berit Berger, a former federal prosecutor and the executive director of Columbia Law School’s Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity, told me. “But under everyone’s nose are what look like much more straightforward violations of state law, including some pretty flagrant tax fraud. Depending on what happens with Mueller, that could be what actually sinks the big ship.”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-one-of-trumps-biggest-legal-threats-is-new-yorks-attorney-general/

Mueller farmed out many of his findings to NY.

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