car builders, but the entire car industry and culture as well.

For instance;

A typical gasoline engine connected to an automatic transmission has hundreds of moving parts and the car itself has a few dozen more.

An electric car equipped with a motor at each wheel has 4 moving parts to propel it.

FOUR. About 10 or 15 more if you include steering, door components and windshield wipers, so MAYBE 20 total moving parts that could possibly fail.

As opposed to hundreds. This makes the cars inherently more durable, cost less to maintain and able to last longer. It used to be that the North American Auto makers would build between 14 and 18 MILLION units a year. If they were even 50% electric, that number would fall over time because they wouldn't need to be replaced as often.

This change will affect car parts stores and dealer repair/maintenance shops. They will service a small fraction of what they currently do.

The reasons a new car is purchased in the first place is actually pretty limited;

1) A new buyer/first time buyer
2) Replacement of a crashed/damaged unit
3) Buying a new model to replace a perfectly fine older model (what the manufacturers REALLY like)
4) Buying a second (or more) unit for a single person or entity, like a business buying 15 pickup trucks, for instance.

There is going to come a time when an internal combustion engine is as modern as a horse drawn surrey.

I think that post 1 really missed the mark on moving parts that wear out, but the gist of it is probably true. You'll have a lot less auto repair with electric vehicles than with gasoline-only ones. I have a six year old Sonata Hybrid, and other than tires, it's only needed a replacement 12 volt battery. The lithium polymer battery is guaranteed for as long as I own the car. The gasoline engine part of it gets to rest a third of the time that the car is running, when the battery/electric motor take over. Nearly 80K miles on it, and it runs like brand new.

The point I was making stands.

Tell me then, how many moving parts in a Tesla compared to an F-150?

Would any other automaker get away with this? No way.


Tesla failed to meet production expectations last year and it’s still working to get things under control at this very moment. As we previously reported, 2018 must be the year of the Model 3, otherwise Tesla will find itself in serious financial trouble. But while Tesla figures out how to build the promised 5,000 weekly units by the end of June, it’s come to our attention there are some potentially serious quality issues currently plaguing early Model 3 owners. Thanks to a tipster, we’ve been directed to the Tesla Motors subreddit, Teslamotorclub.com and the official Tesla forum to be made aware of a number of Model 3 owner complaints, exposing several disturbing issues.

Another owner experienced several annoying issues within the first three weeks from driving it home. Heck, the taillights didn’t even work on the day of delivery. That was quickly resolved on the spot, but still. Two weeks later, they received a proactive 12V alarm, essentially a warning indicating battery service is required. This is pretty much the absolute last thing you want to have happen when you own an EV. The indicator could also mean an outright battery replacement is needed. No service appointment was available for another two to three weeks, which is apparently the norm for an issue like this one. One week later, this guy’s Model 3 did not power up at all.

There are some Model 3s out there with some potentially serious battery and software glitches as well as possible suspension issues, and a growing concern Tesla service centers are not capable of handling, in a reasonable time period, these vehicles coming in for the required repairs. Given Tesla’s goal to increase Model 3 production in the coming months, both issues, and all things related, must be resolved. Of course some Tesla die-hards will continue making excuses for the brand, but there’s no way whatsoever on this planet or on Mars, another automaker, such as GM, would get away with its EVs having problems like these.

https://carbuzz.com/features/tesla-model-3-owners-are-having-some-abnormal-technical-issues

https://carbuzz.com/news/check-out-these-seriously-bad-tesla-model-3-quality-control-issues

Have no idea where to find that type of information, so unfortunately am unable to answer your question.

Look...you chose to try and ridicule me over my misstatement of a number.

Fine. Tesla is having problems. I'm a shareholder (albeit it small) and I read a lot of what comes out about them. They have their fair share of issues, no doubt, but their concept is sound and if another major manufacturer comes along and starts producing a $25,000 EV, my point still stands.

Would you agree that a typical electric car has far fewer moving parts than a typical internal combustion vehicle?

Was the point I was trying to make, however clumsy in your engineers eyes, valid or not?

There's this thing called "Google" where you can actually type in a question and get answers;

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=number+of+moving+parts+in+a+pickup+truck
https://www.quora.com/How-many-moving-parts-does-a-car-have

but i'm sorry, your characterization of it being around 20 was just so absurd that it was laughable.

Also, for someone to believe that due to fewer moving parts, there will be little need in the future for service or repair on electric vehicles isn't even reasonable. If anything they will be more complicated than current vehicles and probably very difficult if not impossible for owners to repair themselves. I believe that the majority of car repairs are not powertrain related anyway, but more related to infotainment, comfort and convenience components and systems

A large number of my family and friends work for either the Big 3 and suppliers and get pretty tired of our own automakers being criticized constantly for every shortcoming while Tesla gets a free pass. Making cars is not easy and requires a lot of technology and engineering; one reason why every single new start up prior to Tesla has failed miserably.

Will there be a transformation of the auto industry? Most likely, but I suspect that the timeframe will be much longer than some are anticipating.

Likely? Yes. Indeed. A shitload fewer moving parts.

You're right. 20 total was a bit off, I admit. Maybe triple that if you want to count everything that moves in the electric windows and the AC fans and such.


However.....
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-things-that-make-the-tesla-a-great-car-2016-08-19

Yup. Pretty funny.

I never said "little need". What I said was "They will service a small fraction of what they currently do." Which I will grant was inelegantly worded. It would have been better to say "less need for service" and leave it at that.



An assertion not borne out by any facts I have seen made public.


Or not.

https://www.thegeneralautoquotes.com/resources/common-car-problems-state/

Most of the links revealed in that search indicate a dead battery is the most common reason for a service request. Engine or transmission problems are in the middle of a top ten list. Fixing the infotainment system isn't even in the top ten.

If by saying that you are suggesting I have criticized any of the Big 3, you would be wrong. And if you see what I have said so far as giving Tesla a pass, you would have grossly misinterpreted my intentions.


Thanks for the tip. I was involved in the promotion, marketing, and movement of automobiles for 25 years, 12 of those transporting new and used vehicles and 6 of those spent working with an engine manufacturer building racing engines for Chevrolet and Mercedes Benz. I've been to GM's Tech Center in Warren, several of Fords engineering labs in Dearborn as well as the Milford Proving Grounds and Fords facility in Yucca, AZ. I'm not a mechanic, nor am I an engineer, but I'm not an idiot, either. I have a pretty solid understanding of what it takes to design and build a modern car.

Key word "Prior". They've been around for 15 years now.


We shall see, right? Technology begets technology.

was first distributed,the Wall Street Pundits said,nothing will change Detroit and as of a few weeks ago,that has been proven. GM dumps five Models that no one wanted,Ford is dumping five or Six models no one wanted,and they did not seek bail out money,their problem is keeping old worn out Engineering Ideals and building in designs that are antiques the day they roll off the line.

As far as Chrysler,that is another antique operation and when they joined with FIAT,what could go wrong. And it appears the day of the mini van is numbered.

I've always wanted to buy a hybrid but couldn't afford the price. Full electric vehicles are even more out of reach.

Maybe someday before I die hybrids and electric cars will become more than toys for the rich. Doubtful.

Auto ownership might just go by the wayside in the future who knows? Whip out your cell and call for a autonomous electric vehicle to run you to work or the store for a monthly fee.

You kick back and it does the driving.

No gas, no insurance, no paying taxes on your non existing vehicle.

It would help older folks to maintain their independance for a much longer time.

They won't need cars in their daily lives, and maybe they'll rent one just a few times a year.

We're approaching a world population of eight billion.

This planet can't support a car for every adult.

👍

The past 20 years with very little innovation and the inability to survive without government cash infusions.

We need to let these industries die so they NEED to change the game, not hope they are going to do it because they want to, they don't.