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Fiendish Thingy

(15,660 posts)
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:08 AM Mar 2019

To obtain un- redacted Meuller report, Congress may have to initiate impeachment proceedings

Existing legal precedents have declared that Congress can only have access to Grand Jury material (known as Rule 6e) in the performance of their duties of impeachment, which in these rulings, was also considered a "judicial proceeding":

https://www.justsecurity.org/44191/mueller-grand-jury-report-public-hand-congress/

When the Eleventh Circuit later considered whether the grand jury materials could be provided to the House Judiciary Committee, the parties then agreed that impeachment was a “judicial proceeding” within the meaning of Rule 6(e) and that therefore a court could order disclosure under the terms of that Rule. The Eleventh Circuit found that disclosure to the Judiciary Committee was warranted for essentially the same reasons it allowed disclosure to the Investigating Committee. The court found, however, that it could not order the Judiciary Committee to maintain confidentiality, as this would impinge on Congress’s constitutional authorities, and noted that while the Committee said that confidentiality rules would apply to the documents, the Committee was free to change its mind and make them public. In re Request for Access to Grand Jury Materials Grand Jury No. 81-1, Miami, 833 F2d 1438 (11th Cir. 1987). In sum, therefore, the Eleventh Circuit suggested two separate legal bases to order disclosure of grand jury materials to a congressional body considering impeachment, relying either on the court’s inherent authority or on the “judicial proceeding” exception of Rule 6(e). And the Eleventh Circuit recognized that the Congress may subsequently choose to make that material public.

These precedents strongly indicate, therefore, that Congress would have no difficulty subpoenaing the results of Mueller’s grand jury investigation should that inquiry end without an indictment of Trump, but with some indication that impeachment might nonetheless be warranted. (The same would be true for other executive branch officials if Congress believed that the grand jury materials could assist in the consideration of their impeachment). And this result would make perfect sense. Although grand jury secrecy serves important interests, and generally restricts the use of powerful investigative tools to a determination only of whether crimes have been committed, where the question of impeachment is on the table, the interests tilt toward disclosure. Particularly if one concludes that Trump cannot be criminally indicted (because that avenue is constitutionally barred for a sitting President) and that the only recourse is impeachment if he has committed crimes or serious misconduct, it would plainly be in the public interest for Congress to have access to all available evidence when considering the grave question of impeachment. Of course, Congress could use its own subpoena powers to reproduce Mueller’s investigation and collect all the evidence itself, but this would result in months if not years of delay for no identifiable reason. What if Congress wanted the grand jury information but not tied to any real prospect or stated interest in impeachment? It is an open question whether the societal interest in a particular Congressional investigation would also inspire courts to allow grand jury information to be handed over. Some of the existing cases that we have discussed appear to hinge on the connection to an impeachment proceeding or the prospect of impeachment.

The same site also makes a case for the use of "Presentment" as a way to indicate a president has committed a crime without indicting him:

https://www.justsecurity.org/44252/untold-option-mueller-grand-jury-presentment-alternative-indicting-trump/

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To obtain un- redacted Meuller report, Congress may have to initiate impeachment proceedings (Original Post) Fiendish Thingy Mar 2019 OP
Get thee to the greatest page malaise Mar 2019 #1
cool, but booo for blindly accepting the idiotic notion that a sitting president can't be indicted. unblock Mar 2019 #2
Nothing blindly accepted, just reality acknowledged Fiendish Thingy Mar 2019 #3
Yes, that part is certainly cool. unblock Mar 2019 #4
all it takes for permission to see grand jury is a federal judge saying yes. Grasswire2 Mar 2019 #5

unblock

(52,332 posts)
2. cool, but booo for blindly accepting the idiotic notion that a sitting president can't be indicted.
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 11:31 AM
Mar 2019

that's an authoritarian, right-wing talking point that is based neither on the constitution nor on any supreme court precedent.

once again, other officials subject to impeachment can be and have been indicted while in office.
once again, other legal proceedings against presidents have been allowed to proceed while the president was still in office.
once again, the constitution neither makes nor implies any special exemption for the president.
once again, the founders never in a million years wanted to grant any president even temporary license to commit crimes.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,660 posts)
3. Nothing blindly accepted, just reality acknowledged
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:11 PM
Mar 2019

Meuller is apparently following existing DOJ policy and procedure, right or wrong, it's reality.

Others, such as NY AG are not constrained by DOJ rules, but the link I posted outlines one established process for Congress to obtain Grand Jury evidence.

unblock

(52,332 posts)
4. Yes, that part is certainly cool.
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:25 PM
Mar 2019

I have no doubt Congress will see the full report, and the public will see the key findings, if not a properly redacted report, eventually. The question is how much delay.

To your angle, in fact, concealing the mueller report is itself ground for impeachment, imho.

I'll reserve judgment regarding mueller not indicting Donnie. Not clear to me yet even if he was allowed to complete the investigation or if he recommended indictment and left it up to barr or if he handed it off to other prosecutors or if he honestly concluded there wasn't a good enough case. I'll wait for the report, of at the very least, an fully informed conclusion from someone like schiff or nadler.

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