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babylonsister

(171,079 posts)
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 11:44 AM Apr 2019

Pretty Soon, House Democrats Could Start Arresting Trump's People


Posted on Sat, Apr 6th, 2019 by Leo Vidal
Pretty Soon, House Democrats Could Start Arresting Trump’s People


snip//

Trump, his lawyers, his attorney general, and other associates of the president appear to be ready to openly flout the requests coming from various House committees.

So that naturally leads to the question: What can House Democrats do about it?

Actually federal law is very clear: If a witness refuses to comply with a subpoena to either produce documents or testify, Congress can then use criminal statutes to enforce compliance.


The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized congressional subpoena power, and it has always upheld the enforcement power of contempt.

Even Trump’s cabinet members aren’t immune from being arrested for being in contempt of Congress.

If Attorney General William Barr ignores a subpoena to produce Mueller’s documents, he could be arrested for contempt.

If Secretary of the Treasury Steve Mnuchin ignores a subpoena to product Donald Trump’s tax returns, he could be arrested for contempt.


It’s likely if these things happened that the Department of Justice (under control of the president) would intervene and the conflict would end up in court.

But it would take an extraordinary set of circumstances for the federal courts — including the Supreme Court — to disregard federal law and allow Trump’s people to avoid complying with congressional subpoenas.

The tax laws are very clear with respect to providing Trump’s tax returns: the statute says they must be given to the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee after he requests them, which he has done. There is no wiggle room here.


more...

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/04/06/pretty-soon-house-democrats-could-start-arresting-trumps-people.html
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Pretty Soon, House Democrats Could Start Arresting Trump's People (Original Post) babylonsister Apr 2019 OP
I'm not going to hold my breath SHRED Apr 2019 #1
Me either. StarryNite Apr 2019 #29
Oh, man, to see Barr perp walked! TruckFump Apr 2019 #2
John Mitchell went to prison True Blue American Apr 2019 #24
Absolutely! TruckFump Apr 2019 #25
John Mitchell True Blue American Apr 2019 #26
This ain't watergate.... pangaia Apr 2019 #30
Right, it's much worse. Ligyron Apr 2019 #32
My Money is on Richie Neal - He's a Seasoned Professional with Integrity dlk Apr 2019 #3
Well respected and not a BS artist. TruckFump Apr 2019 #4
But the politics of J_William_Ryan Apr 2019 #5
Looks like Mnuchin is close to the top of the list? kentuck Apr 2019 #6
Too bad they arent all Democrats, they would all be in prison already, problem solved Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #7
Which "non Democrat who loves to bash Democrats" theaocp Apr 2019 #11
We must not say the sacred name n/t NastyRiffraff Apr 2019 #28
Yes, Congress has three options manor321 Apr 2019 #8
DOJ enforces Contempt citations? kiri Apr 2019 #20
There are two kinds of contempt: TruckFump Apr 2019 #27
Nobody has been arrested for contempt of Congress since 1935. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #9
OK, so what happens if/when they babylonsister Apr 2019 #10
Unfortunately, waiting out the clock theaocp Apr 2019 #12
The path after ignoring subpoenas or after disregarding statutes goes in only one direction: Eyeball_Kid Apr 2019 #31
What happens if a witness refuses to testify by taking the 5th. hughee99 Apr 2019 #13
I'll believe it when I see it. ooky Apr 2019 #14
Some of these lawyers moondust Apr 2019 #15
Pelosi would never do this because of the precedent it would make. jalan48 Apr 2019 #16
Why the Hell do you think that the GOP Senate has been installing judges as fast as possible? Stonepounder Apr 2019 #17
I think your comment encompasses exactly what the GOP strategy defacto7 Apr 2019 #23
They "could", but the bigger question is WILL THEY? Ferrets are Cool Apr 2019 #18
Fitzmas is coming at long last! Blue_Adept Apr 2019 #19
Didn't Republicans defy subpoenas during Bush's term? I recall them just ignoring congressional Pepsidog Apr 2019 #21
I wouldn't hold my breath. Some rethuglican toady judge somewhere will just slap it down. Texin Apr 2019 #22
David Frum said it two years ago. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #33
The sooner the better. Watch the crime rates fall, afterward. Mc Mike Apr 2019 #34
AFRAID it all comes down to this. bluestarone Apr 2019 #35

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
25. Absolutely!
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:47 PM
Apr 2019

And I remember Watergate. Listened to every minute of it on TV or on my battery powered, pink portable radio. No earphones back then that plugged into the radio. Held it to my ear at the pool!

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
6. Looks like Mnuchin is close to the top of the list?
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 11:51 AM
Apr 2019

Is he ready to follow Trump's orders, instead of giving up the tax forms to Congress? They have probably made the choice to hang together, rather than hang separately?

Eliot Rosewater

(31,121 posts)
7. Too bad they arent all Democrats, they would all be in prison already, problem solved
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 11:51 AM
Apr 2019

I
O
K
I
Y
A
R

or if you are a non Democrat who loves to bash Democrats

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
8. Yes, Congress has three options
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 11:54 AM
Apr 2019

- Criminal referral to the DOJ

- Civil referral to a federal court (which then could result in contempt of the court itself if the court agrees and the defendant doesn't cooperate)

- Direct imprisonment by the House OR Senate (this hasn't been used since 1935, but is an option)

kiri

(796 posts)
20. DOJ enforces Contempt citations?
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:30 PM
Apr 2019

I am under the impression that if a house of Congress votes to charge someone with Contempt, this is sent to the DOJ to enforce it. Presumably the FBI now serves a warrant. I think that the Sergeant at Arms does not have this authority/capability.

The problem looms: Barr can simply ignore a contempt citation, take no action to enforce it. What could the House do about it?

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
27. There are two kinds of contempt:
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:52 PM
Apr 2019

One kind punishes for disobedience of a court order/law and holds a set time;

The other is used to compel compliance of a court order/law.

Remember Susan McDougal? She sat in jail because she continued to defy a Federal judge who had ordered her to answer prosecutors' questions before a grand jury about her former Whitewater partner Bill Clinton.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,829 posts)
9. Nobody has been arrested for contempt of Congress since 1935.
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 12:00 PM
Apr 2019

That case involved an attorney, William McCracken, who allowed his clients to destroy subpoenaed documents during a Senate investigation of airlines and of the U.S. Postmaster General. After a one-week trial in the Senate, McCracken was found guilty and sentenced to 10 days imprisonment. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/294/125.html It is highly unlikely that anyone will be arrested for criminal contempt of Congress in relation to the Mueller investigation.

babylonsister

(171,079 posts)
10. OK, so what happens if/when they
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 12:18 PM
Apr 2019

all ignore subpoenas? Do you think the Dems will just throw up their hands and move along? I don't. I guess we shall see.

theaocp

(4,244 posts)
12. Unfortunately, waiting out the clock
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 12:25 PM
Apr 2019

isn't something the Dems have found a good counter to, yet. They need a good offensive coordinator.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,434 posts)
31. The path after ignoring subpoenas or after disregarding statutes goes in only one direction:
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 02:16 PM
Apr 2019

Legal and civil action, which includes arrests if Congress is pressed to make its point.

The IRS is in the hands of a Trump appointee.

The DOJ is in the hands of a Trump appointee.

Both are taking orders from Trump. They are to stonewall until there are no options left, and then they are to challenge Congress and dare them to cite Trump's lackies for contempt of Congress and begin arrests. Trump's appointee to the IRS CAN go to prison. So can Barr. Neither will be willing to fall on their swords for Trump. So Congress will take these two lackies right to the wall, and have them ready for prosecution, before they give in and comply, but only with Trump's approval. If Trump continues to insist that they stonewall, then his lackies will be jailed, and they'll remain in jail UNTIL they comply.

Any abdication by the House will result in a revolutionary change in the Constitution, not through legislation, but through takeover by Trump's fascists, who will dismantle the Constitution unilaterally. So all of this only goes in one direction.

Trump will NOT abdicate, will not surrender his financial information, nor the Mueller Report, because doing so would truly reveal that he's a fraud AND a foreign agent. It will be in documents, and will be substantiated by raw facts.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
13. What happens if a witness refuses to testify by taking the 5th.
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 12:26 PM
Apr 2019

Lets say someone at the IRS doesn't want to turn over documents (maybe they lost them in some "technical malfunction" ) or they refuse to testify by invoking their 5th amendment rights. How do you think congress should handle it?

ooky

(8,926 posts)
14. I'll believe it when I see it.
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 12:36 PM
Apr 2019

So far all I'm seeing is them getting away with everything they aren't supposed to be able to do.

moondust

(20,002 posts)
15. Some of these lawyers
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:04 PM
Apr 2019

seem to be much more committed to protecting their corrupt client than to upholding the law. Some have probably earned disbarment or worse.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
17. Why the Hell do you think that the GOP Senate has been installing judges as fast as possible?
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:21 PM
Apr 2019

The Turtle just invoked the nuclear option so they can get judges on the Federal bench faster and faster. By the time these cases hit the courts a) it will take forever to wend it's way through the various layers of Federal courts, and, b) if it takes long enough the GOP/Trump only need to get one more judge on SCOTUS and they will have the majority and you can kiss the Constitution and Federal Laws goodbye.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
23. I think your comment encompasses exactly what the GOP strategy
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:39 PM
Apr 2019

has been all along, for many years infact.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
21. Didn't Republicans defy subpoenas during Bush's term? I recall them just ignoring congressional
Sat Apr 6, 2019, 01:32 PM
Apr 2019

subpoenas and there will calls for the Sergeant at Arms to arrest those in contempt of Congress which went no where.

bluestarone

(17,025 posts)
35. AFRAID it all comes down to this.
Sun Apr 7, 2019, 02:44 PM
Apr 2019

IF the senate and the house was controlled by DEMS> they would ALL be worried! BUT that isn't so. After the 2020 election THEY will be SQUIRMING!!!

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