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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome people are uncomfortable with touchers like Biden. Should they set the rules?
The unwritten rule can be as indelible as any chiseled into a tablet. Thats its genius and its curse. But because norms recalibrate, and todays are still sorting themselves out, not everyone got the invisible memo that says a person shall not hug, pat, brush, graze, stroke, clasp, rub, squeeze or nuzzle another without first obtaining or at least intuiting consent.
Joe Biden certainly didnt get that memo. He has operated on his own tactile terms for years, and now he faces an unexpected hurdle as he ponders a twilight run for the White House. Several women have said that when Bidens exuberant greetings or gestures of support involved touching them, they felt uncomfortable, leading some progressives to hint that he should sit this one out.
Manhandling, assault, uninvited sexual touching that sort of contact has long violated social norms (as well as laws). But the move to regulate behavior that makes people uncomfortable? This treads on newer turf. Life presents uncomfortable moments daily, after all, and they differ from person to person. Should rejecting discomfort be the new norm? Should it be what makes me uncomfortable? Which comfort level should dictate? Good luck finding the line of demarcation. Even if we could, such a taboo would set up a Blakeian battle pitting innocence against experience. Someone should put the bloody brakes on it, says Francis McGlone, a neuroscientist at Liverpool John Moores University and an evangelist for social touch.
Norms governing touch are headed to a place where they can cause harm, says McGlone, who studies C-tactile afferents, the nerve fibers that respond to gentle touch. C-tactile afferents are beautifully, exquisitely evolved, McGlone says, and without the touch that they respond to, babies have weaker neural responses and longer hospital stays, do not gain as much weight and are more at risk for autism. But the benefits derived from this nerve fiber hes fond of calling it the Higgs boson of the social brain dont end in infancy. McGlone points to higher rates of mortality among lonely people, who make up a large proportion of the elderly. What do the lonely elderly have in common? They dont get touched, he says. Dont piss around with 3 million years of evolution, McGlone admonishes. It doesnt make mistakes. Social touch is a biological necessity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/some-people-are-uncomfortable-with-touchers-like-biden-should-they-set-the-rules/2019/04/12/9f8a49da-5bbb-11e9-842d-7d3ed7eb3957_story.html
LakeArenal
(28,845 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)And even then, they ONLY touch how and where given permission.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... you are constantly saying, "That was a hysterical joke! Can I pat you on the back?" Or, "I couldn't agree more! Can I touch you on the arm?" Sometimes if you're on the extremes of a spectrum (not the autism spectrum... please... we've been down that side-track), you just have to learn to give off "don't touch" signals and/or deal with it.
The alternative is a PC parody of fun and comraderie.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)There's a fine line between showing affection and asserting dominance and if a person isn't sure which is behind a touch, there is no sense in forcing someone into trying to figure it out by giving them the benefit or the doubt or questioning their motives. It's uncomfortable and unnecessary.
I wonder how many defenders would try to justify the practice children have had of touching someone's curly hair to see what it felt like. Or, patting a wheelchair user on the head. Or, dismiss an emotional response given by a torture survivor who has PTSD.
We use our experiences to help us define our preferences for social interactions. We don't wear signs, so it's a matter of basic respect to not assume we know how much of us other people want in their space.
dogman
(6,073 posts)They said it was taboo for Buddhists. It was not that they were not a touchy society, they shocked most Americans because the soldiers would walk around holding hands. My urologist has recommended Fist bump as it limits contact for the spread of germs. At least that's how he greets me, and I have the choice to make that contact.
sinkingfeeling
(51,473 posts)I love human interaction through touch.
Mosby
(16,350 posts)leftstreet
(36,112 posts)So now women are to blame for mortality rates of lonely old codgers?
Jesus Pole Vaulting Christ on a Crutch
Men like Biden simply need to touch women in the same way they touch men.
Or, for a lesson, try touching men the way he's been touching women.
See what happens
hlthe2b
(102,357 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,473 posts)I'm a woman. Did you read the article?
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Nowhere in the article are women to blame for anything the (female) author discusses.
Bettie
(16,124 posts)The fact is that the new rule seems to be moving toward "never, ever, touch another living person" unless there is a signed, notarized document detailing what type and duration of touch is permitted as well as witnesses who will swear that the contract has been fulfilled.
Bettie
(16,124 posts)people on the SCOTUS and in the White House who have been credibly accused of actual sexual assault. One has even bragged about his ability to sexually assault people and yet we're set on destroying Joe Biden and ensuring that no one on our side ever makes physical contact with another person again.
It would be funny if it wasn't so freaking sad.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)several decades. I have never been very comfortable with touch, but the discomfort got a lot more intense in my late twenties early thirties and has remained so until now when I am in my early sixties. It is true and I fully acknowledge that unless I express my distress there is no reason to think that other people will read my mind and act accordingly. The thing I have had the most difficulty with that is that just like in this article not wanting to be hugged or even touched is viewed highly skeptically. Many people express disbelief that their touch can be uncomfortable to someone else. I have been told about the need for human touch many times usually to convince me that I'm going to whither if I don't take the hug that is on offer right now.
It would be very nice to be able to say no thank you to the hug or back slap and have that be the end of it. One thing I have learned when dealing with touchy-feely people is that no rarely means no to them. Even realizing that I am in the minority I still have a dream of having my bodily autonomy respected. This past week has made me see more clearly than ever that is a dream that will probably never materialize.
lindysalsagal
(20,730 posts)you. If you are terrified Joe Biden (honestly, the sweetest guy in the world) is going to touch you, (in public, with photographers and strangers milling about) and it's going to cause you irreparable damage,
THEN DON'T EFFING RUN UP TO HIM FOR THE INTIMATE PHOTO OP!
Keep your distance, and that terrifying dragon, Joe Biden, will not harm you in the least.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)I am getting very tired of how we must defer to the lowest denominator. If you do not like being touched then make it clear from the start. Do not expect the rest of society to defer to you.
And I fall on the lower end of the spectrum, but I have learned to deal with by using my coping skills. I do not expect the rest of the society to defer to me, since I am in a minority.
Baltimike
(4,146 posts)It's very shady
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)Mosby
(16,350 posts)Is that the 1% or whatever of people who don't like being touched should not be the arbiters of social norms concerning physical contact.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)touching *without consent* should be a norm.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)We talked for a few minutes, he gave me a peck on the cheek, put his arm around me and we posed for a picture together.
I've been around enough that I know when someone is being creepy. Dealt with that shit in the Army.
This was nothing like that. Just a good guy who is affectionate. That's all.