My off-the-cuff take:

Impeachment proceedings reveal money laundering through NRA by RNC. McConnell's involvement in receiving foreign money for his campaign is revealed, along with lots more repugs involvement. The revelation, in front of the entire nation on live TV, results in a devastating repug loss in 2020. With Dems in control of the White House, the House, and Senate, President Obama's sanctions are restored and Mr. Oleg Oligarch is no longer allowed to partner in the U.S.

I found someone else who hasn't fallen for the right wing talking point that impeachment will fire up Trump's base.

Let's do it. I'm sick and tired of the right controlling the narrative.

Curious!

Nixon investigations which led to his resignation took place after he won his second term. The House then through their investigations ended up with the American people and repubs on their side. The current House investigations that lead to impeachment are going on now. The House Dems are getting their ducks in a row. By the time that happens, it will be too late to impeach trump prior to the November Election of 2020. Am I happy about this? No!!!! But that's reality though.

IMPEACH!!!!!

Burning black churches, bombing Mulims places of worship, running over libs in cars, sending bombs to libruls, white man terrorism fires up his base. So we just step aside out of fear of his terroristic base. No thanks. I took an oath and served during Vietnam era, joined. Again no thanks, I lost fear back then and will stand and fight again, as if life depends on it. Cause' it does damnit.

"completely exonerated," and he will say their support is what did it. That will fire them up for 2020.

That's not "fear" of his base, that's "understanding" his base, from simple observation.

No amount of all caps 'WE ARE GOING TO GO IN THERE AND KICK HIS ASS IF WE IMPEACH!!!" will change that. I may make people here feel a bit less overwhelmed by a situation that they aren't in control of, but that's about it.

Is that clearer?

His freakin base is 35%. There are 65% of us that will be just as fired up when the impeachment hearings, televised, expose all the corruption and treason to a point of making damn sure we all vote and fight for that right to vote. Sure would have been much easier to cower in the jungles and not fight to live while being killed by a smaller group of thugs. I had no right to vote during that era of war, but damn sure could die for "Freedom, MurKKKa". I choose to fight and I am damned "fired up" enough to fight any knuckle dragging ass wipe that follows this bullshit GOP. You do you.

Curious to me.

take impeachment off the table again.

It may be curious to you, but not to those of us without an agenda here.

I have no delusions impeachment will ever happen under his corrupt regime, but the hearings WILL have to be public and the Mueller report and tax returns have to be exposed along with much more. These clowns will fight to show anything, but this is one lawfull way to have everyone see exactly how corrupt the whole KKKlan is. His base is currently seeing the scam in the amount they owe in taxes. I respect your stance, and the facts you present. No circle firing squads. Let's do what must be done for justice to be enforced, whoever it fires up.

impeachment without hard evidence and without the Senate willing to remove him.

If we announce Impeachment with the Senate willing to remove him, that might be enough to get him to resign. He'll say that "the Democrats are going to make it impossible for me to lead, they hate me so much, so I'm going to let Pence handle things from here on out." Then SDNY has him for lunch.

Impeachment without the Senate is pointless, and guaranteed loss when hearings can be held without impeachment - as we saw with the Cohen testimony.

There is this false perception that only IMPEACHMENT can get evidence, when you really need evidence in order to impeach.

Public hearings can be held without impeachment - but I don't think that his base - which holds the GOP Senate by the balls - will be convinced of anything about him that will make them think they have ever wrong about him.

DT got elected by condoning and glorifying their brand of hate, their white fragility, their fear of no longer being the focus of modern culture. They won't give that up.

Can you please tell me who was impeached to get evidence on Michael Cohen?

Was Cohen's testimony an impeachment proceeding?

Do you not know that there is this thing called the judicial branch of the Government, that on occasion, investigates crimes?

Ever heard of Robert Mueller?

The 2016 elections is enough

You already know this.

We don't need ... CRIMINAL ...evidence seeing impeachment isn't a criminal process.

We can start impeachment on what we already have to get criminal evidence.

When was discovery done on this "hard evidence" you talk about?

Because it certainly wasn't done prior to when Dems took congress, and that's only been 3 months total - not counting the shut down.

... discovery for a political process alone.

We already know Red Don asked the Russians to help him on live TV, for example, and that's all that's needed.

You know this ... we've already gone through "Criminal" vs "political"

Actually, yes according to the constitution, you need evidence of one or more of the following CRIMES: Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Otherwise, the GOP would have impeached Obama the DAY they took back Congress for "falsifying identification to run for POTUS." Many were "CONVINCED" like yourself that there was hard evidence of this.

The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office.

And it's clearly made you very unhappy to have been schooled on this.

My posts aren't the "tripe" on this thread.

... this up!?

I'm jerking back and forth in the opposite direction.

You'll make yourself carsick doing that.



You are so angry right now, you're getting mixed up about what has actually been said here.

But continue with your ominous threat of "bookmarking." You might understand some of my posts on a second reading.

No disrespect, I am just sick of this BS. It is time "WE" get Fired Up. If we are afraid of his base "Getting Fired Up", have ya seen his Klan rallies. I lost many friends and fellow soldiers fighting for our democracy, many times for completely unrelated reasons, like cash for Cheney, cause we had to. I for one will not be threatened into doing nothing and dishonor all that died for this country and true freedom. We are under attack, this time on our on Homefront, from GOPutin.

... bring the light.

Now it looks like 50% of the Mueller report will be redacted

.. understand plain English to distract from answering simple questions or addressing simple statements.

I'm thinking you're bout the only one of a couple of people who don't understand what I posted.

To address your overt condescension at face value I'm not just talking about Mueller and his statements ... that's not all of what congress needs on a multitude of subjects.

ask you to clarify your muddled, angry posts.

I'm not the daft one here, I'm talking reason and logic, which isn't something you seem to want to hear.

You want validation for your anger at Democratic leaders, which isn't based in a firm understanding of what is and isn't "hard evidence" or even what "impeachment" involves.

What is "obtuse" about this statement?

"Mueller can be subpoenead by Congress about the report without impeaching DT, even if the report is 100% redacted."

Other than it refutes your case that impeachment is the ONLY WAY we are going to get anything other than a 50% redacted report...

... what Mueller would report in another attempt at distraction via strawman.

I don't want or need your anything,

I have facts

FACT: Congress needs more than Mueller report to bring things about Red Don to light under articles of impeachment that can be raised.


Either way

because you keep on replying, and getting angry when I school you.

Yes, the language in your posts are very emotional on the topic. For instance this post:

... fact you keep going with that overt strawman of narrowing my statement about what congress can use impeachment for to Mueller when I never even mentioned Mueller.

Then you fallaciously posted this ...

Actually, yes according to the constitution, you need evidence of one or more of the following CRIMES:

Your obvious need for a response from me that you are not getting is sad.

... some bookmarks to go along with it.

If "fallacious arguments to forward an agenda" were banned, would you have lasted this long?

My "agenda" in this thread is calling out where Democratic leaders are being bashed for no logical reason, using facts. That apparently has gotten some hackles up.

But do proceed.

Let me know how it goes.

simply push the deadlines farther and farther down the road while meekly accepting that they will continue to commit crimes and hope that they let us vote in 2020.

Got it.

Oh and his base is already crowing that he's been found 100% innocent. In fact, my right wing brother and his friends are gloating about how Democrats would be impeaching him if there was anything there, but since he's been found entirely innocent, they can't do anything.

Winning, right? That's what this is? I didn't know winning would feel so much like being kicked over and over again.

... did in 2016 !!

The arguments against impeachment make no sense and the people proffering them are using fallacious positions to do so including the Clinton impeachment; Red Don will never be as popular to dems as Clinton was to reps.

Oh, BTW some posters are going to distract on this subject by indicating your statements make no sense when they do ... pm for examples.

there are some people who really seem weirdly opposed to anything that might shake stuff up.

And the personal attacks have begun. Oh noes! Someone disagrees!

Anyone who dares suggest something different in this thread is suspect.....

There will be NO dissent!!

...I'm with you guys...we're long past time for impeachment...

...what does trump actually have to do to deserve impeachment, physically murder someone on TV?

...slimy republicans seem to control the narrative whether they're in power or out of power...

...why is that?

...

but no more realistic.

Can you explain why?

"Can you explain why? " Easy to ask the questions, but I bet you don't have a single answer besides your rhetoric, which is dismissive and disruptive. Let me add a face emoji for you so you can see how much disdain I have.

... would bring.

See what 6 months in lock up will do for those who think Red Don is worth it.

He doesn't release his taxes, he launders money, he cheats on his taxes, he ignores subpoenas, he gets out of testifying before Mueller. He took foreign money meant for his inauguration. His foundation was shut down because it just laundered money and was a personal slush fund. He makes money in violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

He is enabled by Republicans who, why not, get a piece of the action, get foreign money, rig elections, are bought off by lobbyists, enable Trump to avoid obeying the law because they don't obey the law. They have become the right arm of the dictator.

We are left with lady justice to preserve our rule of law, but McConnell is packing the courts with fascist judges who will preserve the dictatorship that we have.

I am waiting on Democrats to get really mad at all of this. We lost Al Franken in the Senate, and Democrats are bashing several freshman House members as being too vocal, too out of control.

It's f**king past time for subpoenas, we know that the redacted Mueller report will be a sham, subpoena all of the crooks that are enabling Trump. Hey, how about bringing back impeachment? I know it's Easter week so I will say, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, even Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, let's get cracking. Impeachment will rile up Trump's base, so what, impeachment will rile up me and my fellow Democrats.

in regards to what impeachment could reveal. And how such revelations could bode in our favor in 2020.

for Barr to release the unredacted grand jury information, Barr said so himself at his hearing. Going the route we are going we will never see the real Mueller report until after the election, Republicans will tie it up in court.

.

they will simply decline to release it anyway.

... just like the person who wont release Red Don's taxes.

OoJ charges can be brought up on the individuals and they're not going to give up their freedom for stupid ass.

can decline to have those charges brought.

You think he will allow anyone to be charged?

.... arrested and Americans can see Barr not bringing charges and that would be the evidence needed to impeach him.

but, I don't think our House leadership has the will to do it.

They can talk a good game, but when push comes to shove, they don't seem to want to actually do what very clearly needs to be done.

People keep saying impeachment will lose us the election. I very much fear that doing nothing will be the losing proposition.

People also keep asking "why the doom and gloom"...look around, what is there to feel optimistic about?

... want to see the Mueller report.

There are now reports that 50% of the report will be redacted, that's the will of the people being thwarted ...

We should bring the will to those in power.

Right now I agree with you and its deflating at best to watch them wring their hands on what happened 20 years ago while ignoring the fact that Clinton was popular with republicans and Red Don will never be popular with democrats

and frustrating.

I honestly don't even think congress will see 50% of the report. Maybe 20%.

Tell me, will there be mosquitoes anymore after "IMPEACHMENT!!!!"

I mean, if you know of a way that will convince Trump supporters not support him anymore after he beats an impeachment attempt, you must have access to knowledge that none other has.

I mean REALLY, we're already what, 3 months into having control of Congress, and he's not GONE YET? That's not NEARLY enough testosterone in that there timeline!

removed from office, and the Senate Pukes refuse to do so, even though there's basically universal agreement aside from Trumpist die-hards among the population?

Then I believe Dems could conceivably get a BIG WIN out of impeachment proceedings ... even if Trump isn't actually removed.

It's no guarantee that a failure to remove by the GOP Senators ends up being a loser for Democrats come 2020. Depends entirely on how good a case they end up being able to make, along with how that gets covered by the Media.

It'd be a huge risk, and I could see arguing that it's not really worth it, but the fatalistic idea that there's no way impeachment could help Democrats in 2020 UNLESS Trump is removed by his Senate GOP lackeys ... I tend to reject. And I also think the case can be made that House Democrats are Constitutionally Obliged to impeach, just based on what is publicly known.

I think Boo feels the same way.

... with votes.

impeachment. And doing so in a most condescending and personally insulting way.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Don’t waste time waiting for the courts- use the full powers of the house to defend the rule of law.

We'd need a special prosecutor to investigate criminal activity by the AG and Mnunchin.

Any ideas on who that might be?

... is parroting winger talking points about the dept he leads without proof (his own words)

Bout that simple, they obfuscate we impeach ... period.

what say you?

tia

1) Congress can make criminal referrals to DOJ when they have reasonable suspicion a crime has been committed (refusal to release Trumps taxes)

2) if Barr refuses to indict Mnuchin and Rettig for breaking the law, then Congress can move to impeach all three of them for obstruction and abuse of power

No need to involve the courts and the delays that would entail; Congress should flex the maximum muscle of their powers

And rapid dissemination of the evidence to the American people will create a groundswell of disgust necessary to affect the 2020 election.

It is a critical mistake to wait for "math" and "bipartisanship".

First, bipartisanship is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Second our chances at "math" -- flipping the Senate -- increase exponentially if the people are fully informed NOW.

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Stop playing things safe all the frigging time. While we play it safe, they pillage and destroy democracy, the Constitution, and our future.

But argue with you further about it I won’t.

The Constitution can’t wait until 2020!

It’s been almost two years since the Meuller investigation- congress should move aggressively to protect the Constitution, hold the obstructionists accountable.

I guess saying "FUCK THE MATH" is the response for when you are really, really mad, and really don't like what the math says....



So, other than IMPEACH NOW!! what exactly is it that you think that, less than three months after getting congress back, is doable "right now!!!" that isn't being done?

I can't seem to get any answer than ALL CAPS IMPEACH NOW DAMMNIT!!! FUCK THE MATH!!!

discourage any talk or opinions favoring impeachment are duly noted, and curious to boot.

is you, sport.

The fainting couch is right over there.

not your "sport" and I have said nor called you anything disrespectful to deserve such an insulting tone.

'Byeeeeeee.

... seeing it's not based on many facts.

Then you link facts to them and they act like they don't see them.

I have never said “IMPEACH NOW!”, as in, file articles of impeachment and move to a full House hearing and vote, now.

What I have consistently advocated for is aggressive, relentless investigations, subpoenas, etc. By Congress with the ultimate goal of creating a convincing (of the American public), undeniable, irrefutable case to proceed to filing articles of impeachment.

Convincing the American public (minus 25-30% die hard Trumpers) will be key in shifting “the math” in the Senate, just as happened in Watergate.

The suggestion that “our only option is to vote them out” is ludicrous and irresponsible. The Democratic controlled Congress has tremendous power, and I expect them to use it to its maximum.

That’s why, In the past week or so, I have been quite vocal about advocating for Congressnto take aggressive action; in particular, around the stonewalling around providing Trumps tax returns. This refusal is a clear violation of law, and Congress should not waste time going through the courts- they should make criminal referral for Mnuchin and Rettig to DOJ; if, as expected, Barr refuses to prosecute, then Congress must initiate impeachment hearings against Barr, Mnuchin and Rettig.

If in the course of these hearings, it becomes clear that the stonewalling and obstruction involved the direction or participation of Trump, that would be evidence for an article of impeachment against the president. The media coverage of this process would exert tremendous pressure on the GOP senators- would it be enough to change “the math”? That is not clear, but to throw up one’s hands and say “we’ll just have to vote them out” when the rule of law is quickly eroding day by day is the height of spineless defeatism, not pragmatism.

If Congress moves aggressively, again, not waiting for things to play out in the courts, it’s not inconceivable (and I do know the meaning of that word) that the tide in public sentiment could turn by late summer/early fall.

... and now there's reporting we'll only see 50% of it.

Fuck that, impeachment = throw people in jail if they're going to stone wall... period.

When Trump’s atty. Barr releases the covered up Mueller Report on Thursday, then Pelosi should declare that the House will begin impeachment hearings on multiple fronts: Barr, Mnuchin, IRS, Deripaska/Kentucky aluminum/McConnell, etc. corruption. Time to saturate the media market with exposing the Repuke-Trump criminal empire! Just exposing the bastards will be a much-needed jolt to saving what’s left of our democracy.

So, you think that Dems should start impeachment hearings on:
-Barr
-Mnunchin
-IRS - who exactly in the IRS would be impeached?
-McConnell

And the gathering the hard evidence for all of these separate impeachments would take - how long?

The Senate won't remove McConnell, and his constituents know what he is, and elect him anyway.

And what's to stop DT from asking Barr and Mnunchin to just "resign" and replace them with a clone, rendering the work done to impeach them moot?

And who would take over the other investigations going on currently - not to mention legislating?

But yelling it in all caps sure does make it sound like we could KICK SOME ASS, DUDE!!!

Why would someone want to shut down a discussion on what should be valid considerations of the options to try to prevent further erosion of our country? If I did not know any better, and I don't, .....

If the House decides to impeach, i'm under the impression that the House will have FULL access to any and ALL information they request? Someone has to FULLY explain if THIS is true or not. I mean the tRUMP taxes AND Mueller report, AND subpoena of ANYONE they choose? People here need to be fully informed i feel!! I'm leaning toward impeachment IF the answer to ALL the above questions are YES.If the answer is NO then i question it. We really do have to make an informed decision! Seems like words are thrown around, confusing the WHOLE situation. NOTHING we do will change his BASES minds so i give a rat fuck what impeachment will do to those assholes. I'm completely FOR impeachment IF the HOUSE gets FULL access to the INFO they need to get forward to the rest of the public! If we have subpoena power USE IT!!!

... process.

So individuals who don't to not follow the law and hang with Red Don can at the minimum get arrested and if Barr doesn't want to bring charges impeach him too for OoJ.

Also, in regards to Clinton impeachment not working out for republicans.

The "no impeachment crowd" keeps leaving out Clinton was way more popular with republicans than Red Don is with indies and democrats right now.

Even if Red Don isn't removed I don't see his poll numbers with democrats going anywhere ... Red Don will never be as popular with democrats was Clinton was with republicans.

There's little chance of that