Sad what humans have done to the forests throughout the world.

with modern materials that will let it go on for centuries.

You cannot restore vintage sailboats, either, because you can't get 14' mahogany planks any more.

were 17 inch planks all over the place. I don't think I've seen that before or since and I live in canada. I bet they source the best recyclable beams for Notre Dame to lead the world in how to be human once again. Environmentally neutral is the way to go.

The Achilles heel of all churches historically has been the roof structure. Over centuries the heat and smoke dried out the wood to tinder. Using lightweight non flammable support that is still encased in slate roofing and plaster ceilings will not even be visible but infinitely safer.

the improvement in weight will be immense. The lead is usually covered again with copper in more recent times. It would be excellent to see materials used that depict our present need for lighter eco friendly materials. It doesn't need to be nor should it be built to the ancient standards other than visible design.

Norte Dame’s original roof was lead sheet nailed directly to the joists. It was thick enough to walk on, because there’s a clock up there someone has to wind regularly.

If you really want to know what started this fire...you fix lead roofing, which is common in European buildings that old, with a bar of lead, a spatula, and an air-acetylene torch. (We had lead roofing on part of Field Station Berlin, and I’d have to guard people who came to fix it. It takes two people: one to melt new lead into the old, the other to smooth it out and stir it in. Very neat process.)

A lot of brain power is likely working on that right now.

which is the only bit of primeval forest remaining in all of Europe. (And protected so you can't just go cutting down centuries-old trees for new cathedral roofbeams.)

You can't really replace an 800 year old roof. I would hope that going forward the church looks forward as much as backward. Rebuilding this church can be an opportunity, much like 800 years ago, to train new craftsmen and artists. It can become the center of activity in Paris for a wide range of people to learn a trade, to become skilled in an art form, and to participate in something assuredly to live on for centuries. It could become something for all churches to aspire for decades to come.

Nothing can be replaced 100% as it was, but there is a huge photo archive, and I'm sure no effort will be spared in trying to replicate what was as best as can be done. France will not accept the loss of Notre Dame as a permanent situation.

I've seen the cathedrals in Cologne, Vienna, and Dresden that were seriously damaged in World War II. Especially the Dresden firebombing left almost nothing standing! And yet the cathedrals have been restored in modern times with recent materials, and hopefully the buildings will stand for centuries.

For context, here's the Cathedral in Dresden (Frauenkirche) in 1945 and now:

It will take many years, but they will not rest until it is restored.

I'm sure in a decade we'll be looking at similar comparisons of Notre Dame, now and then.

people didn't burn to warm and shelter themselves were in protected preserves. The late Middle Ages were starting to improve in spite of a series of great calamities but were still bad, bad, baad times for badly degraded humanity in Europe. If they could build then, I'm sure we'll manage it somehow. We're also slightly better at metallurgy, cutting and moving stone, and creating derivative products now.

Bids being taken for the National Park giant sequoias.

I can see him saying the us will donate money to restore it but they need to put his ugliness on it

Restore everything visible to look like original but upgrade the hidden supports to modern materials. Best of both worlds.

The Dresdner Frauenkirche was nothing more than a heap of rubble after WWII. They glued the original stones back together with cement. The restoration was quickly criticized as being essentially an entirely new building, because while some parts are original and some new parts were made with ancient manufacturing-methods, the new Frauenkirche contains electric wires, heating, AC and steel support-beams.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frauenkirche_(Dresden)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_Frauenkirche

It makes no sense to use an inferior material for a repair. It won't be the original building anyways, so it's okay to cheat a little bit and make the hidden parts more durable.

Throw in electricity, heat, air.

And, just for good measure, add a freaking fire-suppression system. Sprinklers, halon, whatever.

It wouldn't hurt to evaluate existing old buildings for fire-suppression upgrades: The Louvre, Prado, Smithsonian, etc.

They always wanted to rebuild the Frauenkirche, but they couldn't as long as the Communists were telling them what to do. I visited Dresden in 2002 while the rebuilding was going on, and I learned that they hid or buried the church stones in the 1950s so the Communists couldn't use them to build their ugly buildings. (Most of those are gone now by the way.)

By 1990 the Soviets/Communists were gone, the Dresdners were able to start the huge task of rebuilding the Frauenkirche. Certain stones had to be remanufactured, as you say, in concrete forms. But many of the rescued original stones were used wherever possible. The original building specifications were archived and used. It's really a remarkable story.

It was added in the mid-1800s. I'm sure there have been other changes and modifications over the years. It will be interesting to see how the architects, historians and the French people themselves decide to restore it.

I first heard the story of the Oxford Oaks from the ecological designer William McDonough, I believe, back in the late 1990's at one of the Bioneers Conferences. Charlotte Hajer writes it here:
http://blog.longnow.org/02014/12/31/humans-and-trees-in-long-term-partnership/

...when someone mentioned that much of the support structure of Notre Dame was ancient oak, I thought of the university oaks and felt hope amid my tears, that the French builders had also planned far ahead.

There was a thread on Twitter that said the oaks at Versailles were grown specifically to rebuild the roof at Notre Dame.

The OP said he had attended an emergency preparedness seminar 15-ish years ago and the speaker mentioned that the oaks were part of the plan.

It sounded somewhat credible.

Link to tweet

Each beam of the intricate wooden cross-work in the attic (called 'the forest') was drawn from a different tree, estimated at 13,000 trees in total.

centuries or even four centuries ago. We may be clueless in a lot of ways, but in other ways we get better in time.

They could build an "old" exterior for all that is visible and an ultra-modern support structure for that which is seen only by builders.

If they decide to go with wood.

Sadly, I hold no hope for that.

And will we see the American billionaires chip in millions like the French billionaires did? Maybe Jamie Dimon and Lloyd (doing the work of God) Blankfein and friends can scrape up few hundred million.

in the 1800's. It had huge supports cut from single trees that couldn't be found anywhere in the country today. It was like the land of the giants. Sadly, it burned down a few years ago.

With modern materials, they can duplicate the old structure precisely and much more safely.

The old roof on the building wasn't original anyways. Update it again.

Link to tweet

They have become as much a national treasure as Notre Dame is. It would be a shame to cut them down.

My recommendation would be to install steel framing, put rubber isolation strips on top of the steel, then attach metal plate that’s been treated to match the old lead sheathing to it. Once it’s on, restore the ceiling using materials and techniques as close as possible to the original one.

and the last artist that great died long ago.

the cathedrals were the space program of their era. have we built anything that will stand for 1,000 years?

Coupla things to think about there.

First, there are many cathedrals which ceased to stand a long time ago. The ones that are old, and still standing, are merely the ones that haven't fallen down.

Second, even that is not accurate. Most massive old structures, which the exception of things like the pyramids which fundamentally can't fall down, have been ongoing works since construction started, and have required continuous reconstruction and periodic major overhauls. That spire which fell yesterday, for example, was not part of the original cathedral, but was added in the 1800s. Notre Dame was sacked during the French Revolution and left to rot for quite some decades.

Finally, yes, there are artisans today who are every bit as good at carving stone as medieval craftsman, as the maintenance and restoration of these structures has continued to require generations of them. With modern CNC equipment, accurate duplicates of stone or wood carvings can be rendered from 3D laser scans of the original.

That roof was built in the 1300s and then modified and reinforced many times over the years. But no way to recreate what is was. At this point make the rook look as authentic but structurally safe (and fire retardant as possible) and protect the rest of the remaining structure as well as possible.

It was long overdue for a major overhaul and renovation, so without messing up the old world look and feel, use modern materials instead??

And lead covered roofs were always a bad idea.

If I was choosing, I'd go for 100% recycled steel and copper, with a recycled composite wood veneer everywhere the old burned wood was significant.

And fire sprinklers. Don't forget the fire sprinklers.

Donations of steel, copper, and wood, especially materials of found and otherwise neglected historical significance, most gratefully and graciously accepted.

Use of wood laminate has been common in churches for decades...I have helped design several in past years.

Steel is the logical choice, and dimes to donuts says the original craftsmen would have gone with it had it been in their arsenal.

just imagine where those craftsmens' flights of fancy would have taken gothic design if they had steel for support.

That's the ticket, laddie.

are their "cathedrals", leave them be. Best to find other resources.

I'd bet they have proprietary construction techniques designed to recreate ancient structures that maintain modern safety standards.

The restoration has to take fire safety as well as longevity into consideration so plain wood would be a poor choice.

in their gigantic autoclaves used to now make immense airplane wings.