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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:57 AM Apr 2019

Imagine this and you can see how the American people are dangerously disconnected.

Imagine, in the summer of 2016 Trump appeared on TV and asked Russia to find Clintons files. Soon afterwards Russians agents picked a lock and broke into DNC headquarters and stole their files and the files of Clintons campaign manager. The FBI informs the public Russian agents broke into DNC headquarters and stole their files . Trump denies Russian agents committed this crime. Some fat guy or China did it.

Russia then mailed the files to a news organization. Trump fires the head of the FBI who is investigating the break in of the DNC headquarters.

Would the American people be reacting differently if the crime happened this way, instead of by the internet? Same fucking crime, different route taken to commit the crime.

The American people are ignoring a major attack on our democracy, on our country. That may be more dangerous than Trump himself.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Imagine this and you can see how the American people are dangerously disconnected. (Original Post) shockey80 Apr 2019 OP
Things were different then Turbineguy Apr 2019 #1
Howard Baker wasn't quite what we think he was, at least not at first. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #2
Interesting.... Turbineguy Apr 2019 #4
That's not the job McConnell was elected to do. BUT... Beartracks Apr 2019 #12
Big difference NYMinute Apr 2019 #5
Actually, they acted the same way they are now... It took almost a year of hearings before 50%... PeeJ52 Apr 2019 #3
Exactly. And the House Judiciary Committee vote on the articles of impeachment The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #6
Thank you. Important perspective information. empedocles Apr 2019 #10
Except for one thing FakeNoose Apr 2019 #7
How many gop politicians Scarsdale Apr 2019 #9
That's why he took such pleasure in uttering that "joke": he knew it wasn't a joke. n/t Beartracks Apr 2019 #13
Then I'd say it is up to US to educate them - PatrickforO Apr 2019 #8
+100 Duppers Apr 2019 #19
What's so dangerous to me is how big this country is, which makes any and all effort really hard ancianita Apr 2019 #11
Well said. n/t Pobeka Apr 2019 #14
That's so true and the Repukes know it FakeNoose Apr 2019 #15
If you can call minority rule of those too disconnected to punish them, a reward. ancianita Apr 2019 #16
Talk about disconnected... True Dough Apr 2019 #17
Correction: the Republican Party is working to actively ignore this lunatica Apr 2019 #18
I hope you're correct. Duppers Apr 2019 #20
The ostriches are not a problem lunatica Apr 2019 #23
Yes, they are more dangerous... paleotn Apr 2019 #21
Prior to 2016 the American people were told Russia wasn't a threat. MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #22

Turbineguy

(37,332 posts)
1. Things were different then
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:01 PM
Apr 2019

with the republican party. In Watergate the Republicans were involved in the investigation. Now they are involved in the coverup. Guys like Howard Baker would never be elected by the republican voters.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,713 posts)
2. Howard Baker wasn't quite what we think he was, at least not at first.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:14 PM
Apr 2019

He's best remembered for his "What did the president know, and when did he know it?" question to John Dean. But the question was actually intended to help Nixon's case.

In February 1973, before the hearings began, Baker had a secret Oval Office meeting with Nixon. He told the President the committee’s game plan, which was to start out with minor witnesses in an effort to ratchet up the pressure on major witnesses to appear before the panel. As Nixon later related, Baker suggested having major figures such as White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman and top aide John Ehrlichman testify first, “to deflate the whole thing.”

Through the first half of that year, Nixon trusted Baker and vice versa. The White House and Baker were in frequent contact. Nixon’s staff prepared a strategy memo for Baker suggesting ways he could keep the hearings from becoming a “political circus.” The whole inquiry, they wrote, was a “witch hunt.” (Sound familiar?) In fact, they wrote, the President himself could inform Baker that it was actually the Democrats who had bugged his offices in 1968. . . .

When it was Baker’s turn to interrogate Dean, his goal was to prove that the accusations against the President were based on circumstantial evidence. Baker carefully questioned the former White House lawyer, attempting to prove that he had no direct evidence of the President’s role in the break in or in any cover up. Dean held his own, ultimately testifying that he and Nixon discussed the cover up 35 times.

Baker was subdued after Dean’s testimony. The Committee took a two-week break. Shortly after it resumed work, it learned of the President’s secret Oval Office tapes. Now, it wasn’t just Dean’s word against the President’s. Not only that, but the level of Baker’s involvement with the White House could be exposed.


It was only after Dean's testimony that Baker gradually started to change his mind about Nixon. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/curious-history-%E2%80%98what-did-president-know-and-when-did-he-know-it%E2%80%99


Turbineguy

(37,332 posts)
4. Interesting....
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:20 PM
Apr 2019

I did not know that. I just remembered his questioning toward the end of the hearings that I watched. I suppose there would be republican senators who would desert trump in his hour of need, but it's McConnell's job to make sure it never gets that far.

Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
12. That's not the job McConnell was elected to do. BUT...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 02:15 PM
Apr 2019

... it does seem to be the job he's doing - and perhaps also the job for which he received the most compensation?



=========

 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
5. Big difference
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:21 PM
Apr 2019

There was no Fox news and RWNJ radio.

If that had existed, even Nixon would have survived.

 

PeeJ52

(1,588 posts)
3. Actually, they acted the same way they are now... It took almost a year of hearings before 50%...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:15 PM
Apr 2019

of the people thought Nixon had done something wrong. It took hearing the tapes for themselves that put them over the edge.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,713 posts)
6. Exactly. And the House Judiciary Committee vote on the articles of impeachment
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:30 PM
Apr 2019

was along party lines, with few GOPers voting yes on any of them.

Article I: Obstruction of Justice Passed 27–11. Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no - Republicans: 6 yes, 11 no

Article II: Abuse of Power Passed 28–10. Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no - Republicans: 7 yes, 10 no

Article III: Contempt of Congress Passed 21–17. Democrats: 19 yes, 2 no - Republicans: 2 yes, 15 no

Article IV: Cambodia bombing Failed 12–26. Democrats: 12 yes, 9 no - Republicans: 0 yes, 17 no

Article V: Failure to pay taxes Failed 12–26. Democrats: 12 yes, 9 no - Republicans: 0 yes, 17 no

FakeNoose

(32,639 posts)
7. Except for one thing
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:41 PM
Apr 2019

When Chump said "Russia I hope you're listening..." he already KNEW they had the DNC emails. He had to assume that at least some of those emails would embarrass the Clinton campaign.

The Watergate break-in was a fishing expedition, or campaign dirty tricks. "Russia I hope you're listening," was outright collusion on national television.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
9. How many gop politicians
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 01:43 PM
Apr 2019

will stand by tRump, when their own political future is on the line? McConnell has made his millions. What does he have to lose? His reputation? Everyone knows he is a slimebag and a toady. Once the rest of the dirt on tRump is exposed, it will be impossible to defend the rat bastard. Even he knows that. He makes Nixon look like a choirboy. Kellyanne Conway seems to be having a hard time these days. Saw her on TV today, looking like "ten miles of bad road". Big bags under her eyes, droopy hair. Looked really rough. Defending the indefensible must not be worth the money.

PatrickforO

(14,576 posts)
8. Then I'd say it is up to US to educate them -
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 01:34 PM
Apr 2019

First, through impeachment hearings, and then on the primary campaign trail.

Every single one of us is responsible for getting the word out because the corporate-owned media ain't gonna do it.

ancianita

(36,058 posts)
11. What's so dangerous to me is how big this country is, which makes any and all effort really hard
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 02:02 PM
Apr 2019

and expensive.

People might think "we're too big to fail." Not me.

I'm wondering lately whether "we're too big to succeed."

What I mean is, when people -- 4/5 of whom live paycheck to paycheck, and perhaps cannot afford high speed internet or cable news,
and whose days are so taken up on making ends meet -- just, through no fault of their own, lose touch,
not just because of income gaps,
but because of the huge spaces across the country that allow them to withdraw into passive isolation,
and as an unintended consequence,
to easily ignore the slow rolling disaster of government their country is experiencing.

It's hard out there.
My New Mexico son tells me this all the time.
They've got all they can do to keep their lives together.

And now, they've got to deal with a crooked president?
An impeachment?
An election?
19 Democratic presidential candidates?

Which is why, as I see it lately, Bernie is going to hundreds of small towns around the country. He wants them to know that they're not forgotten, not coping alone, and all he asks is that they give him a chance to prove it.

I'm in for Jay Inslee, but everytime I see this man, he looks like he's in the "die trying" zone, just to get this country to be a fair and equitable one.

I think he sees the danger noted in your post -- and me, too -- in the gaps of money and distance.

FakeNoose

(32,639 posts)
15. That's so true and the Repukes know it
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 02:49 PM
Apr 2019

That's why they'e getting away with so much stuff.
It's maddening! They get rewarded for ignoring the rules.

ancianita

(36,058 posts)
16. If you can call minority rule of those too disconnected to punish them, a reward.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 02:53 PM
Apr 2019

Their reward, imo, is a special place in hell -- Dante's ninth rung -- in which the betrayers of whole countries are frozen with Satan.

Dante's image is good enough for this atheist.

In this life, I hope we can actually punish them by driving them out of the Senate and White House.

True Dough

(17,305 posts)
17. Talk about disconnected...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 02:58 PM
Apr 2019

As I've mentioned several times, I frequent a sports discussion forum and there's a "general" section that has many threads of a political nature. There are many right-wing posters on the sight.

One person started a thread titled "I would vote for Putin before I vote for Hillary." There were several people who echoed that sentiment. I couldn't believe the crap I was reading! But that's how jaded some people are. How do we win them back? Or do we even want them back??? Or maybe Russian bots are creating those sorts of threads. Who knows?

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
18. Correction: the Republican Party is working to actively ignore this
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 03:02 PM
Apr 2019

The majority of the American people, at least 60%, are not ignoring this at all!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
23. The ostriches are not a problem
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:56 PM
Apr 2019

They obviously don’t give a shit about Trump because if they did they’d be MAGATs.

It’s not like he lets anyone ignore him!

paleotn

(17,918 posts)
21. Yes, they are more dangerous...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 05:23 PM
Apr 2019

THEY...that's right....they in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio specifically. There was a time when the first 3 were Dem strongholds and Ohio was a toss up. Not anymore. Shit head should not have come even close to winning in the first 3.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
22. Prior to 2016 the American people were told Russia wasn't a threat.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 06:50 PM
Apr 2019

We even made the mistake of saying that viewing Russia as a threat was backwards looking.

I was totally ok with that strategy as it worked flawlessly against Mittens in the General that year, but it felt likely false at the time and lo and behold we're still paying the price for that shortsightedness, as it's hard to reverse course from that and just a few short years later tell people that they're the biggest threat this country has ever faced.

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