General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums[Philly] Inquirer Editorial: Assange extradition not about freedom of speech
Posted: Sun, Aug. 26, 2012, 3:01 AM
As much as Julian Assange would like the world to think his plight is all about freedom of speech, it isn't ...
The founder of WikiLeaks has been holed up in Ecuador's embassy in London, trying to avoid extradition to Sweden now that the British courts have ruled he should face accusations of rape and sexual molestation there ...
... He says he is innocent, so prove it in court. It's not as if he faces extradition to some country where the rule of law is a foreign concept.
Sweden is a well-respected democracy known to treat defendants fairly. Everyone is equal under the law. It is not a country with a reputation of ignoring its own judicial system to appease the United States or any other nation ...
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20120826_Inquirer_Editorial__Assange_extradition_not_about_freedom_of_speech.html
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Yes, because after all, that is the slogan carved in stone at the top of the building where the Supreme Court holds court!!!!
"Prove it, you scumbag!!!!"
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)We called him a rapist, therefore you should hate him and be tying nooses already!
progressoid
(49,992 posts)I've never seen anything like this on DU before. It's refreshing to finally see this point of view here.
Also, welcome to DU.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Just skip the thread.
It's interesting how soon supporters cannot want to put their hands over their ears and go alalalalala - no, not everything agrees that Julian is above the law.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Enough of this.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I usually let them sink but your meme cracked me up..and had to compliment it.
lol
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)I should have thought Assange's own comments, upon his last landing in the UK from Sweden, or the crap his holocaust-denying friend "Israel Shamir" published in Counterpunch, would have discouraged anyone with wit from turning down that avenue
But no! In recent days, we have seen more of the same from MoP George Galloway, former ambassador Craig Murray, and Ecuador's macho President Correa
Your post suggests that idiotic misogyny is the groovy thing in some circles
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Whatever.
Helpful Hint: inserting trigger words like "Misogyny" into your post does not automatically make your post correct. In fact, if you lack an argument, it makes you look silly.
struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)so it is natural to suspect some misogyny
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Whatever.
I don't think you're a young woman. You ARE obsessive. And you are falsely applying a trigger word to try to discredit a woman- wonder if there's a word for that...
Iggo
(47,563 posts)But you knew that.
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)Assange is not afraid to face trial in Sweden, he just wants assurance from the government that he would not get extradited to the US. The right-wing talking point is that it is only the Swedish courts who can decide this, not government officials, but this talking point turns out to be a lie that people will believe if it gets repeated enough.
Glenn Greenwald has statements from Swedish legal experts who argue this point:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/24/new-statesman-error-assange-swedish-extradition
The claim that Swedish courts, not government, have final say on extradition is a crucial mistake that distorts the Assange case
The New Statesman owes its readers a correction for a clear and crucial falsehood contained in this much-cited argument by its legal correspondent, David Allen Green. As I noted on Wednesday, Green purported to debunk what he called "common misconceptions" and "myths" being spread by supporters of Ecuador's asylum decision in the Assange case, but in doing so, he propagated his own myth on the key question in this matter. By doing so, he misled large numbers of readers not only at the New Statesman but in many other venues which cited his claims. Regardless of one's views on the asylum matter, nobody should want clear errors on the central issues to be left standing in major media outlets.
...
He directed me to this analysis from Mark Klamberg a professor of international law at the University of Stockholm who dissects Sweden's extradition law and makes Green's error as clear as it can be [my emphasis]:
...
"Even if the supreme court has found that there are no obstacles, the government can refuse extradition.
...
"Swedish extradition law clearly states that the Swedish government is the body deciding on any extradition request."
struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)Greenwald writes
Well, that certainly sounds clear, doesn't it? Greenwald accuses Green of PRETENDING to debunking the notion that "Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA" when he is actually SPREADING MORE FALSEHOODS, and Greenwald will demonstrate Green's error to use by citing Klamberg ("professor of international law at the University of Stockholm" , whose analysis was recommended by "international law professor Kevin Jon Heller"
At this point, Greenwald (in his useful dishonest manner) quotes selectively and tendentiously from Klamberg and spews noisy volumes of hostile verbal diarrhea, in his effort to discredit Green's short to-the-point non-vituperative blog post
But what was Klamberg's article actually about? Let's quote the very beginning of it:
måndag, augusti 20, 2012
Extradition of Assange to the US via Sweden for espionage
http://klamberg.blogspot.se/2012/08/extradition-of-assange-to-us-via-sweden.html
Klamberg's post (worth a read!) discusses in a bit of detail whether the US could extradite Assange from Sweden -- and concludes it's almost impossible. That, by the way, is also what Assange's witness Alhem told the UK court long ago, in the only testimony offered on the subject
Robb
(39,665 posts)AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)the point of Greenwald's editoral is not whether he can be extradited to the US at this point in time, but whether Sweden is within its rights to assure that he won't be. This is an important distinction, particularly in light of one of the Stratfor emails that speculates that if Wikileaks releases certain item, then Assange can be prosecuted for espionage in the US and extradited.
The whole basis for Klamberg's conclusion that extradition is not possible is:
"There is nothing in the extradition of criminal offences act that deals with this scenario, but it would depart from established practice."
Well, there you have it, the whole basis for your argument boils down to: "it would depart from established practice"
This is all part of the diplomatic process and the UK now wants to establish a dialog with Ecuador on what to do about Assange. There's no reason Sweden cannot also be part of the diplomatic dialog and agree to do something that departs from estalished practice given the international scope of the row.
struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)Marks post is extremely persuasive. Ive always thought it was ridiculous to believe that Sweden would extradite Assange to the US to face espionage charges (or treason). The UK, perhaps. But Sweden? No way. Extradition for serious non-political offenses is always a possibility, as Mark notes, but the rule of specialty would ensure that the U.S. did not bait-and-switch the Swedish government. (The US might be tempted to do so, but such blatant disregard for a basic principle of extradition would cripple the USs ability to extradite suspects from other states.)
My thanks to Mark for permitting me to reprint his post.
http://opiniojuris.org/2012/08/22/klamberg-on-extraditing-assange-from-sweden-to-the-u-s/
Maybe there's a reason Greenwald doesn't practice law anymore: most judges won't tolerate little childish word games like those Greenwald plays
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)it's about Sweden providing assurance that he will not get extradited. If he's not likely to get extradited anyway, what's the harm? If Sweden were interested in diplomacy (and less interested in cooperating with Bush cronies) then they might consider this.
struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)for diplomatic reasons, why is it so difficult for Sweden to provide assurance that he won't get extradited to the US? Everything I'm hearing sounds like its virtually impossible anyway, so why not provide these assurances? It would get Ecuador to release Assange and he would then face questioning in Sweden, which is what they want!?????
struggle4progress
(118,320 posts)AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)Ecuador will release Assange if Sweden can provide such assurance, whether or not extradition to the US is likely to happen is besides the point. Extradition to Sweden WILL HAPPEN if this assurance can be made.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)Ecuador will turn Assange over to Sweden if they agree to return him to UK after trial and any punishment in Sweden. Sweden has the right under their law to agree to that. Why won't Sweden agree? Because they want to send Assange to the US so he can be persecuted for revealing the truth about US war crimes.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)No one could be as oblivious to a counterproductive strategy as you appear to be, your every posts drives more DUers toward revulsion of your ostensible position.
Brilliant really, an amazingly effective long term strategy. You actually had me fooled for quite a while.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Don't know what the Swedish Burden of Proof is. Maybe it's even harder than ours for all we know.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)When did Sweden become a closer ally of the US than the UK is?
cali
(114,904 posts)it's giving me the creeps.
Alduin
(501 posts)Give. It. Up. Already.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)Endlessly repetitive, terribly annoying.