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struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 02:37 PM Aug 2012

[Philly] Inquirer Editorial: Assange extradition not about freedom of speech

Posted: Sun, Aug. 26, 2012, 3:01 AM

As much as Julian Assange would like the world to think his plight is all about freedom of speech, it isn't ...

The founder of WikiLeaks has been holed up in Ecuador's embassy in London, trying to avoid extradition to Sweden now that the British courts have ruled he should face accusations of rape and sexual molestation there ...

... He says he is innocent, so prove it in court. It's not as if he faces extradition to some country where the rule of law is a foreign concept.

Sweden is a well-respected democracy known to treat defendants fairly. Everyone is equal under the law. It is not a country with a reputation of ignoring its own judicial system to appease the United States or any other nation ...

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20120826_Inquirer_Editorial__Assange_extradition_not_about_freedom_of_speech.html



32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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[Philly] Inquirer Editorial: Assange extradition not about freedom of speech (Original Post) struggle4progress Aug 2012 OP
Prove your innocence!!!! Major Hogwash Aug 2012 #1
Why aren't you buying our demonization?! backscatter712 Aug 2012 #14
Whoa! Where has this been? Thank you sooooo much for posting this. progressoid Aug 2012 #2
Give it a rest already. LAGC Aug 2012 #3
Hey. Everyone needs a hobby. randome Aug 2012 #4
Why is it bothersome? treestar Aug 2012 #15
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #5
Perfect ,,lol... obsessive girlfriend meme Ichingcarpenter Aug 2012 #7
AWESOME!!! backscatter712 Aug 2012 #11
I guess a whole cottage industry provides Misogynist Crap for Assange struggle4progress Aug 2012 #20
*snort* LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #24
Your picture, suggesting I'm an obsessed young woman, relies on offensive stereotypes of young women struggle4progress Aug 2012 #25
*snort* LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #29
He's trying to avoid extradition to the United States. Iggo Aug 2012 #6
Sweden's government really can guarantee not to have him extradited.... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #8
Yet another example of Greenwald's now long history as a fuckeddy-faced little liar. struggle4progress Aug 2012 #16
... Robb Aug 2012 #17
what was that about verbal diarrhea? AntiFascist Aug 2012 #18
Klamberg on Extraditing Assange from Sweden to the U.S. (by Kevin Jon Heller) struggle4progress Aug 2012 #23
Again, this is not about the likelihood of him getting extradited to the US... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #26
So we can both agree we don't need to discuss extradition to the US? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #27
I would very much like to discuss... AntiFascist Aug 2012 #30
When do we get to discuss whether the UK plans to rocket Assange off to Mars? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #31
Did you not read my post? AntiFascist Aug 2012 #32
Sweden can have Assange if the agree not to turn him over to US Cicada Aug 2012 #9
You've been outed already, secret Assange supporter.. Fumesucker Aug 2012 #10
Another day, another dollar. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2012 #12
Or make them prove it in court treestar Aug 2012 #13
Why would Sweden be more likely than the UK to extradite Assange to the US? Nye Bevan Aug 2012 #19
your obsession has reached such a fever boil that cali Aug 2012 #21
Opinion pieces mean nothing. Alduin Aug 2012 #22
you are like a broken record.... mike_c Aug 2012 #28

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
1. Prove your innocence!!!!
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 02:44 PM
Aug 2012

Yes, because after all, that is the slogan carved in stone at the top of the building where the Supreme Court holds court!!!!

"Prove it, you scumbag!!!!"

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
14. Why aren't you buying our demonization?!
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
Aug 2012

We called him a rapist, therefore you should hate him and be tying nooses already!

progressoid

(49,992 posts)
2. Whoa! Where has this been? Thank you sooooo much for posting this.
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 02:48 PM
Aug 2012

I've never seen anything like this on DU before. It's refreshing to finally see this point of view here.

Also, welcome to DU.




treestar

(82,383 posts)
15. Why is it bothersome?
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:17 PM
Aug 2012

Just skip the thread.

It's interesting how soon supporters cannot want to put their hands over their ears and go alalalalala - no, not everything agrees that Julian is above the law.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
7. Perfect ,,lol... obsessive girlfriend meme
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
Aug 2012

I usually let them sink but your meme cracked me up..and had to compliment it.

lol

struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
20. I guess a whole cottage industry provides Misogynist Crap for Assange
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:04 PM
Aug 2012

I should have thought Assange's own comments, upon his last landing in the UK from Sweden, or the crap his holocaust-denying friend "Israel Shamir" published in Counterpunch, would have discouraged anyone with wit from turning down that avenue

But no! In recent days, we have seen more of the same from MoP George Galloway, former ambassador Craig Murray, and Ecuador's macho President Correa

Your post suggests that idiotic misogyny is the groovy thing in some circles

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
24. *snort*
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:24 PM
Aug 2012

Whatever.

Helpful Hint: inserting trigger words like "Misogyny" into your post does not automatically make your post correct. In fact, if you lack an argument, it makes you look silly.

struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
25. Your picture, suggesting I'm an obsessed young woman, relies on offensive stereotypes of young women
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:50 PM
Aug 2012

so it is natural to suspect some misogyny

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
29. *snort*
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 05:01 PM
Aug 2012

Whatever.

I don't think you're a young woman. You ARE obsessive. And you are falsely applying a trigger word to try to discredit a woman- wonder if there's a word for that...

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
8. Sweden's government really can guarantee not to have him extradited....
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:06 PM
Aug 2012

Assange is not afraid to face trial in Sweden, he just wants assurance from the government that he would not get extradited to the US. The right-wing talking point is that it is only the Swedish courts who can decide this, not government officials, but this talking point turns out to be a lie that people will believe if it gets repeated enough.

Glenn Greenwald has statements from Swedish legal experts who argue this point:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/24/new-statesman-error-assange-swedish-extradition

The New Statesman must correct its error over Assange and extradition

The claim that Swedish courts, not government, have final say on extradition is a crucial mistake that distorts the Assange case

The New Statesman owes its readers a correction for a clear and crucial falsehood contained in this much-cited argument by its legal correspondent, David Allen Green. As I noted on Wednesday, Green purported to debunk what he called "common misconceptions" and "myths" being spread by supporters of Ecuador's asylum decision in the Assange case, but in doing so, he propagated his own myth on the key question in this matter. By doing so, he misled large numbers of readers not only at the New Statesman but in many other venues which cited his claims. Regardless of one's views on the asylum matter, nobody should want clear errors on the central issues to be left standing in major media outlets.

...

He directed me to this analysis from Mark Klamberg – a professor of international law at the University of Stockholm – who dissects Sweden's extradition law and makes Green's error as clear as it can be [my emphasis]:

...

"Even if the supreme court has found that there are no obstacles, the government can refuse extradition.

...

"Swedish extradition law clearly states that the Swedish government is the body deciding on any extradition request."

struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
16. Yet another example of Greenwald's now long history as a fuckeddy-faced little liar.
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:44 PM
Aug 2012

Greenwald writes

The New Statesman owes its readers a correction for a clear and crucial falsehood contained in this much-cited argument by its legal correspondent, David Allen Green ... One of the "myths" Green purported to debunk was that "Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA" ... Green's claim is false. Last night, international law professor Kevin Jon Heller at Melbourne Law School emailed me and ... directed me to this analysis from Mark Klamberg – a professor of international law at the University of Stockholm – who dissects Sweden's extradition law and makes Green's error as clear as it can be


Well, that certainly sounds clear, doesn't it? Greenwald accuses Green of PRETENDING to debunking the notion that "Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA" when he is actually SPREADING MORE FALSEHOODS, and Greenwald will demonstrate Green's error to use by citing Klamberg ("professor of international law at the University of Stockholm&quot , whose analysis was recommended by "international law professor Kevin Jon Heller"

At this point, Greenwald (in his useful dishonest manner) quotes selectively and tendentiously from Klamberg and spews noisy volumes of hostile verbal diarrhea, in his effort to discredit Green's short to-the-point non-vituperative blog post

But what was Klamberg's article actually about? Let's quote the very beginning of it:

Many journalists have contacted me on the issue whether Julian Assange can be extradited to the US via Sweden for espionage where he might face the death penalty. The short answer is: no.

måndag, augusti 20, 2012
Extradition of Assange to the US via Sweden for espionage
http://klamberg.blogspot.se/2012/08/extradition-of-assange-to-us-via-sweden.html

Klamberg's post (worth a read!) discusses in a bit of detail whether the US could extradite Assange from Sweden -- and concludes it's almost impossible. That, by the way, is also what Assange's witness Alhem told the UK court long ago, in the only testimony offered on the subject

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
18. what was that about verbal diarrhea?
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:59 PM
Aug 2012

the point of Greenwald's editoral is not whether he can be extradited to the US at this point in time, but whether Sweden is within its rights to assure that he won't be. This is an important distinction, particularly in light of one of the Stratfor emails that speculates that if Wikileaks releases certain item, then Assange can be prosecuted for espionage in the US and extradited.

The whole basis for Klamberg's conclusion that extradition is not possible is:

"There is nothing in the extradition of criminal offences act that deals with this scenario, but it would depart from established practice."

Well, there you have it, the whole basis for your argument boils down to: "it would depart from established practice"

This is all part of the diplomatic process and the UK now wants to establish a dialog with Ecuador on what to do about Assange. There's no reason Sweden cannot also be part of the diplomatic dialog and agree to do something that departs from estalished practice given the international scope of the row.

struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
23. Klamberg on Extraditing Assange from Sweden to the U.S. (by Kevin Jon Heller)
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:18 PM
Aug 2012
Mark Klamberg, who is a lecturer in public international law at the University of Stockholm, has a detailed post on his personal blog about the likelihood — or unlikelihood, to be more precise — that Sweden would extradite Julian Assange to the United States. He has kindly given me permission to reprint a significant portion of it ...

Mark’s post is extremely persuasive. I’ve always thought it was ridiculous to believe that Sweden would extradite Assange to the US to face espionage charges (or treason). The UK, perhaps. But Sweden? No way. Extradition for serious non-political offenses is always a possibility, as Mark notes, but the rule of specialty would ensure that the U.S. did not bait-and-switch the Swedish government. (The US might be tempted to do so, but such blatant disregard for a basic principle of extradition would cripple the US’s ability to extradite suspects from other states.)

My thanks to Mark for permitting me to reprint his post.


http://opiniojuris.org/2012/08/22/klamberg-on-extraditing-assange-from-sweden-to-the-u-s/


Maybe there's a reason Greenwald doesn't practice law anymore: most judges won't tolerate little childish word games like those Greenwald plays

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
26. Again, this is not about the likelihood of him getting extradited to the US...
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:52 PM
Aug 2012

it's about Sweden providing assurance that he will not get extradited. If he's not likely to get extradited anyway, what's the harm? If Sweden were interested in diplomacy (and less interested in cooperating with Bush cronies) then they might consider this.

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
30. I would very much like to discuss...
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 05:08 PM
Aug 2012

for diplomatic reasons, why is it so difficult for Sweden to provide assurance that he won't get extradited to the US? Everything I'm hearing sounds like its virtually impossible anyway, so why not provide these assurances? It would get Ecuador to release Assange and he would then face questioning in Sweden, which is what they want!?????

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
32. Did you not read my post?
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 05:17 PM
Aug 2012

Ecuador will release Assange if Sweden can provide such assurance, whether or not extradition to the US is likely to happen is besides the point. Extradition to Sweden WILL HAPPEN if this assurance can be made.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
9. Sweden can have Assange if the agree not to turn him over to US
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:07 PM
Aug 2012

Ecuador will turn Assange over to Sweden if they agree to return him to UK after trial and any punishment in Sweden. Sweden has the right under their law to agree to that. Why won't Sweden agree? Because they want to send Assange to the US so he can be persecuted for revealing the truth about US war crimes.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
10. You've been outed already, secret Assange supporter..
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:12 PM
Aug 2012

No one could be as oblivious to a counterproductive strategy as you appear to be, your every posts drives more DUers toward revulsion of your ostensible position.

Brilliant really, an amazingly effective long term strategy. You actually had me fooled for quite a while.



treestar

(82,383 posts)
13. Or make them prove it in court
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
Aug 2012

Don't know what the Swedish Burden of Proof is. Maybe it's even harder than ours for all we know.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
19. Why would Sweden be more likely than the UK to extradite Assange to the US?
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 04:01 PM
Aug 2012

When did Sweden become a closer ally of the US than the UK is?

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