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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 04:59 PM Apr 2019

I lived in California most of my life - 50 years of it.

I'm a product of California's higher education system, which was fully subsidized when I was a student. Today, that's no longer the case, which is a damned shame. However, despite California being one of the states with the most Democratic representatives in Congress, people are troubled by the high taxes in that state. Lots of people, including Democratic voters.

Recently, an additional tax was put on gasoline, which is taking a large, non-progressive bite out of people's paychecks. It's hard to find a place with higher gas taxes.

So, I'd like to see that state, once again, subsidizing higher education, with state colleges and universities returning to a zero-tuition system like it was in the 1960s and 1970s when I went to Cal Poly University in San Luis Obispo, CA. My first couple of years were right out of high school. I came back, after dropping out in my sophomore year and spending four years in the USAF adulting myself. Things were the same in my second round, which included a master's program on the GI Bill. I graduated with zero student debt, thanks to the taxpayers of California.

That was an ideal system, which let the son of an auto mechanic, who made $5/hour then, be the first to earn a degree in my family.

However, today, recreating that system would raise individual taxes to the breaking point for middle income families. They wouldn't stand for it. There aren't enough high income families to fund such a thing, either. So, how do we make that happen? California is doing well financially. Incomes are high there, but so are real estate prices. Similar issues are widespread in other states, as well, like my adopted state of Minnesota.

I'd love to see the high school class of 2020 be able to go to college tuition free, like I did. I'm willing to pay more taxes to do that, but my income as a Social Security recipient isn't high enough to add much to the funding. I also don't know how my neighbors in this blue collar neighborhood will be able to fund it. They have children of their own to educate. Where does the funding come from?

That's the question that everyone who proposes free higher education has to answer. I have not heard an answer that makes sense.

What is the answer?

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
4. All California has is the National Guard.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 05:22 PM
Apr 2019

It has no defense budget. California's colleges and universities are funded by its own income tax. It gets some federal funding, but not all that much. I don't think you understand what I'm talking about, frankly.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
11. The poster meant the national defense budget.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 07:41 PM
Apr 2019

Cut it by 1-5% and earmark the money for higher education.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
12. I know what he meant.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 07:51 PM
Apr 2019

How do those cuts get to the states? And how much money does that come to? Where will the states spend it, even if it earmarked for education?

The devil is always in the details when it comes to government spending. Not so simple.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
16. The money would be earmarked and could be used only for specific items,
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 09:20 PM
Apr 2019

like tuition, room and board, meals, books.

I personally believe that the country should beef up community colleges and have kids do their first two years closer to home. I was a college freshman, but a somewhat mature one in my thinking, what I saw freshmen and freshwomen do was purely wasteful and would not have happened if they were more mature.

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
5. It's not perfect but
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 05:27 PM
Apr 2019

CA now has one free year of community college for residents--spearheaded by my assemblyman, Miguel Santiago--and he's currently working on expanding that to 2 years, so residents could get an associate's degree for free (I believe the bill is AB 2).

It may be piecemeal, but it's progress nonetheless.

Hekate

(90,712 posts)
6. Earmarked taxation on the gigantic corporations headquartered here?
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 06:42 PM
Apr 2019

Silicon Valley, I'm talking to you.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
15. That's the only solution and one that no politician does not address.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 08:09 PM
Apr 2019

40 years of cutting taxes for the wealthy and throwing surcharges at the middle and lower classes and this is what we are left with.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
8. A few things...
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 06:57 PM
Apr 2019

- yes, the military budget is killing this country, and that money could be used for colleges in a large number of ways
- there are a lot more people going to college now than in the 60s (1968 t0 2019 is 8% to 35%): https://www.statista.com/statistics/184272/educational-attainment-of-college-diploma-or-higher-by-gender/
- colleges have lots more requirements (special education, gender equity, etc.) than in the 60s.
- states provide much less support per person than they did in the 50s and 60s


It's not as simple as tax more and cover the costs....

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
9. Colleges have become more expensive in a top heavy way
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 07:19 PM
Apr 2019

Executives at colleges are getting huge salaries while turning professors into adjuncts.

I'd rather see a modest charge for college, perhaps a sliding scale as well as a cap on executive pay. I paid $500 per sememster which, while a lot for some students, is not insurmountable.

Tax corporations for starters.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
10. I had to leave California when I retired
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 07:25 PM
Apr 2019

I worked in UC Berkeley for more than 20 years. As you know the University of California is a public university that was free to the state’s resident students.

In the years that I worked there the cuts in funding were worse and worse each year. As staff we were underpaid more each year because salaries were frozen. Departments were all forced to cut back to skeleton staff over the years. I was among the old timers who were lucky enough to have a pension building during the time I worked there. Meantime real estate prices shot through the roof and taxes went up and it became prohibitive to live decently. Tuition was too high for any student not to borrow money, a lot of it, to put themselves through college. Gas prices alone take huge bites out of your salary because there is not any decent public transportation.

In order to retire and actually live within my means I had to leave California. I moved to New Mexico, to Santa Fe which is considered a pretty affluent and cultured city. I live quite comfortably here on a fraction of what I would in California.

I have no idea what California can do to become financially viable for the middle class. But I have no regrets about where I am. There are even a few things that I think are better in New Mexico than California. I’m happy here.

hunter

(38,317 posts)
14. Education and medicine in the U.S.A. are absurdly expensive and not especially good overall.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 07:52 PM
Apr 2019

Educators and classrooms are cheap. Creative Commons textbooks, kept up to date by educators who are actually paid for the work, could be free.

Unfortunately many colleges and universities are trying to be Educational Disneylands to attract students who come from wealthy families, and students who are willing to take out huge student loans. Even so, most of the people who actually do the teaching are still treated like crap.

Same thing in medicine. People providing primary care and prescribing effective, generic, and appropriate medicine are not living in 6,000 square foot mansions and buying a new Mercedes every year.

Like you, the State of California paid for most of my education, and for that I am grateful because I was a pain in the ass. But overall, I think the investment paid off.

But I see a lot of money in colleges and universities now that wasn't there when I was in school.

Most of the classrooms and lecture halls at my University were not the kind of places that would make a kid say "Wow, I want to go to school here!" or impress their parents. Most of them looked like ordinary high school classrooms and auditoriums, and were designed and built on reasonable budgets by pretty much the same people who were building public high schools.

Going on college tours across the U.S.A. with my own kids, it was obvious that many colleges and universities, even state schools, are playing a brutal and expensive game of keeping up with the Joneses, as if they are going all out to attract the fickle children of billionaires. That kind of competition is expensive.

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