General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat are the Democrats waiting for?
Why don't they just go ahead and officially declare an impeachment process started? Would that not give them the witnesses and documents they need to conduct meaningful oversight?
Or would it be better to go thru with the requests, subpoenas, and court summons, to exhaust all options, before going to impeachment?
Once it goes to the courts, should the Democrats push for expedited movement and decisions? They would be justified in doing so, in my opinion.
But, as soon as they go to court, they should start the impeachment proceedings.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,018 posts)Lack of understanding that things have changed greatly since Nixon, caution, big tent, etc.
pwb
(11,287 posts)because the senate will never vote for impeachment . They are waiting until it is closer to election time.?
forgotmylogin
(7,530 posts)Since the Senate will never convict, it's worth starting it closer to the election when it will cause the most damage and tie up more administration resources.
Also, I'm sure the Democrats would rather not throw gasoline in the fire until they need to. If they start it in election season and 45 is voted out, they save turning it over to the Senate. If he's re-elected, proceedings are already underway.
cstanleytech
(26,317 posts)every Repugnant that votes not to convict against all the other Repugnants and paint them correctly as the party of misrule.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)spanone
(135,861 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)Democrats are by nature, a little more cautious. Republicans tend to shoot from the hip more often, then improvise to put the best face on the situation.
triron
(22,012 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,109 posts)doc03
(35,363 posts)have never took office.
GeorgeGist
(25,322 posts)as a serious threat to the Constitution.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Because we are all so much smarter and tuned in to reality - political and otherwise - than they are.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They're moving forward and laying the proper legal and procedural groundwork to make impeachment more than a short-term messaging exercise.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They're doing it in plain sight.
But you're closer than you may think.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)bubble that don't see what you claim is in plain sight. for instance, why hasn't the judiciary committee at least assembled an impeachment inquiry staff?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's being broadcast and discussed constantly in the media and even on DU.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)Last edited Tue May 14, 2019, 04:16 AM - Edit history (1)
i won't bother with you again.
OnDoutside
(19,969 posts)without doing the setup work, all the hair-on-fire people will go berserk anyway. Bringing out all the slimey truth over the next 18 months, dragging Trump's numbers down, is a far better way to get rid of him, AND hurting the GOP too.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)OnDoutside
(19,969 posts)to do it properly, and not run off there like headless chickens. I'd rather them do this methodically than ending up leaving Trump off the hook because they were sloppy. The evidence of obstruction (10 items at least) is there, let this be a painful drawn out process, which gradually brings Trump's and the GOP's numbers down. Death by 1000 cuts. I believe there is potential that this could blow the GOP apart in 2020.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)there are real ppl getting harmed (and killed) waiting for the 'process'.
OnDoutside
(19,969 posts)There's no easy end to this mess.
BlueMTexpat
(15,372 posts)IMO, your detractor is mightily trying to distract.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)ALL other investigations must end immediately. That's why. Look to Nancy, she won't steer you wrong.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)I was not aware of anything ending with impeachment except stonewalling.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)since they'd all be expected to fold into the impeachment inquiry being conducted by the Judiciary Committee. If you think Trump is stonewalling now, imagine the foot dragging and obstruction they'd engage in if a committee tried to investigate him while an impeachment proceeding is going on in the Judiciary Committee.
The oversight committees (Oversight, Financial Services, Intelligence, Ways and Means, etc.) are better suited than Judiciary at this point to conduct the wide-ranging investigations needed to build an impeachment case. Consolidating everything into an impeachment investigation in Judiciary right now would not only shut off needed expertise and resources, it would also give Trump one single boogeyman to target and fight, something he's proven very adept at.
Letting the respective committees do their investigations outside of the impeachnent process will actually move this along faster, build a stronger case and keep Trump fighting on several different fronts.
Pelosi and the House Democrats know exactly what they're doing.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)how many months until the trial in the senate?
Regardless of how the many investigations were handled, the Republicans would probably insist the the process would be corrupted for lack of their findings "exonerating" Trump and use various means for obstruction and delay of both investigations and impeachment/trial processes.
But, in any case, after it's all over and nothing's changed, what is the national mood toward the Democratic caucuses continuing with the investigations, stalled or otherwise, and then eventually another "hey, if it doesn't succeed once, try, try again" at removing the sitting president? By now, of course, we're well into the primaries and headed for the GE.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That's why they need to gather as much evidence as possible BEFORE starting impeachment.
Suppose they start now and get an impeachment vote by the end of the summer. The Senate will likely rush and acquit him within weeks. He and the Republicans will claim exoneration and then he'll have more than a year to throw out every distraction in the book to make people forget or at least not care very much that he was impeached. By next November, it will be a dead issue. And any attempt by Democrats to bring up new allegations and start new investigations or launch a new impeachment inquiry will die on the vine because they should have dealt with it way back when they were impeaching him.
Sometimes fast and soon aren't so good.
As I've said, Pelosi and her team know just what they're doing.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I appreciate you saying that
WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)you are well capable of making decisions without an overlord
George II
(67,782 posts)kacekwl
(7,021 posts)" I'm so sick of hearing about the Muller report" I fear many people feel the same way because nothing is happening to trump and other Republican criminals. If this goes on much longer the last thing heard is , Trump is innocent Muller said so. Game over.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,109 posts)PDittie
(8,322 posts)Nancy Pelosi say when you asked her?
msongs
(67,433 posts)Xolodno
(6,398 posts)Unfortunately, were never going to get rid of this asshole before the election. Add to that, they are banking on Democrats to push on impeachment and use it for their campaign message. It won't resonate with us or even the "middle", but it will resonate with their base. Where the unprincipled bastards want to keep their jobs...and to hell with everyone else.
However, the longer we let this asshole destroy his party, the better for us. Hence the Napoleon quote. And yes, I get it. He's also hurting the country...sad to say, many don't realize the shit hitting the fan until it splatters on them. So, it may be necessary.
panfluteman
(2,065 posts)It will strengthen our legal case in getting or subpoenaing the witnesses and documents we need. The Republicans are destroying themselves anyway - but we need to get the impeachment train rolling, as there is precious little time to lose, and we need to keep up momentum. An impeachment vote in the House may come before the 2020 election, or it may come after - but we owe it to the American people to get all the evidence, all the cards out there on the table, for all to see, ASAP. Once the evidence is all laid out, and the house votes to impeach, then the Republican legislators who vote against impeachment will be revealing themselves for the treasonous scumbags they really are, and they will be signing their political death warrants.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The case is what it is regardless whether it's in the context of impeachment or oversight. It is remotely possible that a judge might rule more quickly, but there's no guarantee of or legal requirement for that. And at this point, that remote possibility doesn't even come close to outweighing the downsides of opening impeachment proceedings too early.
If they start proceedings now based on what they have, it's not likely to salt and Republican senators being punished if they vote not to remove him since the American public has most of the information that the house would be using to impeach and it hasn't harmed those Republicans yet.
The committees need to do more investigations all across the board to make sure the case that's brought before the house and then before the Senate is much more solid and much more sordid than it is now. It's not like the House is just twiddling its thumbs while time' a- wastin'. they're making a lot of progress and building a very strong case in real time. fortunately they're more patient and deliberate than some people in our base, which is just what we need now.
watoos
(7,142 posts)We get the grand jury information under an impeachment hearing. All of the slime on the Trump crime family is in that grand jury info.
Of course an impeachment hearing carries more clout, especially with the courts.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You're probably thinking of Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which many people mistakenly believe requires the release of grand jury materials if requested in connection with an a judicial proceeding (which includes impeachnent inquiries) and that is the only way to obtain it. However Rule 6(e) doesn't operate that way. It gives the judge discretion to order the release of material in such cases, but doesn't require it. A judge can deny the release if he or she decides such a denial is warranted.
Moreover, the rule does not limit the judge's authority to disclose grand jury materials to impeachment. It also allows release of materials preliminary to any judiciary proceeding such as impeachment.
So, contrary to the belief of some, it's erroneous to assume that "we get the grand jury information under an impeachment hearing" or that opening a formal impeachment inquiry is the only way to obtain the materials.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Each and every time the Democrats demand something they are fully justified to receive in their oversight capacity, they make a headline. Each and every time Trump refuses to comply with the law, he makes a headline that he is hiding something.
Every time, the drums pound louder and louder: "What is Trump hiding?" "What is Trump hiding?" "What is Trump hiding?"
This is how you prepare the public to demand impeachment.
This is also how you prepare the public to expel the dictator in 2020, if impeachment fails.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,109 posts)Here at DU doesn't count.
Is the average American hearing that? From where?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)need to start shouting it all the fucking time. It's such a simple and powerful slogan. And Trump plays right into it.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)like they did for nixon before an impeachment inquiry.
Me.
(35,454 posts)also, are determined to get MUeller and McGahn before going forward, putting faces to testimony and info
watoos
(7,142 posts)After that its too late.