stupid they have been voting republican for way to long. They need someone to blame for lack of jobs so this is what you have.

that masks a hubris that those plentiful "man" jobs and sacrificial "men" of WWII and their martyred women of faith hold dear and where the phrase &quot you should) and I "MYOB" is their authoritarian king. I've really struggled with the non-evolution in my own family in many of the ways of the white BLUE-COLLAR mindset that refuses to embrace what they see as democratic ideals and ideas to reward the unworthy and shun much of what is required to live in community and with compromise.

Many are also rather new Americans generationally though they weren't pioneers or explorers, never venturing very far into a nation's expeditions into expansion of the mind or freedoms to move forward and those that left the enclaves of their family, church home, etc...were held to be unappreciative of their parents tireless (and BTW ideologically unproductive) efforts despite what they embraced/valued as worthy and needful of their close care and service to themselves, so it indeed looks like "I GOT MINE, FU, and "I LIVE (literally) RIGHT, you don't"; You moved AWAY (abandoning our superior work ethics; your work is WHITE COLLAR and we'll treat it as nothing more than slaving away in the new-fangled mechanic garages and plantations; "YOUR women don't SAH and (horrors) DRIVE, "Where in the world do you get those ideas beyond the arbiter(s) of justice, US?" CURIOSITY (in education) killed the cat but never delivered more mice." That's all good because, "GOD provides what you need (A mind-numbing rat-wheel job in the production line); how dare you want MORE."

somebody ought to tell them what he told coal country and the farmers further west. There isn't enough pain yet.

People care about feeding their families, not Trump's tax returns.

Not black and Hispanic workers. I wish articles wouldn’t treat “white” as the default.

Michigan and Pennsylvania have Democratic governors proving Democrats can win statewide elections in those states. Currently, I think Trump would lose both of those states to our top polling potential Democratic candidates.

was that Cordray led in most of the polling that I saw, especially in the last month before the election.

Or another sign that elections in Ohio weren't kosher?

at the exit polls versus actual results

going into the election.

Ohio has been questionable for a long time.

.... democrat in Sherrod Brown had to turn around and vote for conservative right wingers
as Governor, A.G., & Sec. of State.

BTW I don't know if it is true but OH had more Ds than Rs but you would never know it.

And 2000, 2004 and 2016 were highly questionable. Even Kerry thinks he was robbed. 2008 and 2012 as well, but Obama probably got enough extra votes to overcome the fix.

State Senate to be become republican fiefdoms and there in they have been able to
all but take away the idea we can vote for our leaders. In 2012 Obama & Sherrod
Brown won their statewide races by comfortable margins but 12 out 15 Congressional
House races went to the Rs even though more Ds were voting.

I know Kerry was robbed in 2004 .... I saw it 1st hand.

exactly.

...thru the coal fields of West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky and scattered down thru Tennessee and Northern Georgia.

They believe very strongly in the "deep state". They tend to put jobs over integrity, honor, and character. They don't care about his taxes. They don't care where he got his money or where he is going to get it in the future.

They believe William Barr but they do not believe the NY Times or the Washington Post. They believe Trump is tough and is standing up for them. They think he is a great businessman.

They believe that there is a "whiff of justice" in the air and soon some of their criminal political opponents will be going to jail.

They think America is on the right track.

fake president where it's written in BLACK AND WHITE what he did but they don't believe that.

I feel this country is in deep deep trouble.

The rest of the state belongs to the South. Big time.

headline. The blue-collar workers who are "sticking with Trump" are white ones.

We have to win the election in a system where you win States; and we did't win Ohio (or Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin) the last time.

way to win.

I had a discussion with the State Party Chair after the Election. Clinton over-performed Obama in safe blue areas like Cleveland, but massively underperformed Obama in rural Counties.

He was a fresh, amazingly talented candidate and media phenom who ran in the wake of eight years of disasterous GOP rule which had produced a second Great Depression. Hillary was the exact opposite on all counts.

Dems are going to have to accept that we can't duplicate Obama's performance in many areas merely by finding the right message and holding rallies in the right places.

Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

It's losing clout and numbers. In 2008, Obama underperformed Kerry's 2004 numbers in Mahong County, even with strong union pushes. Until the party gets clear on race and chasing after populations it thinks it wants, it'll struggle to win in these areas.

board. Let's just fucking see. That's one thing we all have common ground on.

when these same people turn around and support a guy that sits on a gold plated toilet.

way it used to be. Youngstown is full of them. They live in the past of the booming steel mills and jobs working in them. The country will move on without them. They then become bitter that life didn't hand them what they wanted. They don't want to do what is needed to move on so they keep wishing and hoping that things will just go back to where you can get a good paying job with just a high school diploma and no training.

Just as with women's rights and diversity, they can not like it but their bitterness will not change the fact that with each generation, things change. Their bitterness will only make their lives miserable while those that recognize that you have to change with the times or get left behind will move forward.

Hillary talked about retraining initiatives etc. but they didn't want to hear about that. This isn't just applicable to Youngstown; it's in pockets all over the midwest. I've heard these stories starting in the 80's.

But it isn't. The fact these people are willing to accept "short-term pain" purely on Trump's word that things will get better eventually tells you all you need to know about them. These are the same people who gladly accept the "short term pain" of GOP tax cuts for the rich, suffer bitterly under the ensuing government cuts, and then years later credit the GOP policies as the real reason for the economic prosperity under subsequent Democratic administrations.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. Every election cycle we go through this same agonizing reflection over these blue collar whites whose "economic anxiety" the GOP is somehow addressing. These people don't want competent economic leadership. They just want to hear "Fuck the Mexicans, fuck the Chinks, fuck the foreigners, fuck the gays, fuck the blacks." That's how they want their "economic anxiety" spoken to and addressed.

Your second paragraph applies to the entire Republican Party. Sadly, that’s how far things have eroded.

And I agree with you, 100%.

I'm tired of thinking we have to cater to these people. As I said, we'll move on without them. I know people in Youngstown like this and they've been moaning about the plight of their city since the 80's when computerization was just beginning. They love wallowing in their misery. Let them wallow as the country progresses.

If you look at history, things always progress. Sometimes we backslide on a few small things, but overall we always progress. You can fight it all you want, but it won't stop the progression.

You know, the guy who thought he should be Speaker of the House because it was Nancy Pelosi’s fault that Hillary Clinton didn’t carry his district and now thinks he should be President.

He can’t even convince the people in his own backyard that Trump is doing nothing for them but playing them for complete fools.

The republicsn approved beatings will continue until morale improves.

is his scapegoating of Latinos, Blacks and other minorities .

God Guns Gays.

you've got the violence positioned correctly.

Find a white blue-collar voter who didn't vote for Trump but is now convinced he's the messiah. Just one. I fucking dare you.

There’s an outstanding excerpt from the book (pages 67-68) posted on Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_the_Matter_with_Kansas%3F
Not long ago, Kansas would have responded to the current situation by making the bastards pay. This would have been a political certainty, as predictable as what happens when you touch a match to a puddle of gasoline. When business screwed the farmers and the workers – when it implemented monopoly strategies invasive beyond the Populists' furthest imaginings – when it ripped off shareholders and casually tossed thousands out of work – you could be damned sure about what would follow. Not these days. Out here the gravity of discontent pulls in only one direction: to the right, to the right, further to the right. Strip today's Kansans of their job security, and they head out to become registered Republicans. Push them off their land, and next thing you know they're protesting in front of abortion clinics. Squander their life savings on manicures for the CEO, and there's a good chance they'll join the John Birch Society. But ask them about the remedies their ancestors proposed (unions, antitrust, public ownership), and you might as well be referring to the days when knighthood was in flower.

used for the last 50 years.

This is why the GOP took on fighting against abortion etc.