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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould Dems now call on Gorsuch to resign?
Should he be impeached?
McConnell seems to have pulled the constitutional rug out from under Gorsuch.
spooky3
(34,498 posts)LonePirate
(13,431 posts)spooky3
(34,498 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,900 posts)Context is always nice.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Response to gulliver (Original post)
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3catwoman3
(24,072 posts)Chris Kobach. Ted Cruz. Kevin McCarthy. Steve Mnuchin. And on and on.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)He worships power and money.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Gorsuch has at least sided with the liberal bloc a couple of times, possibly due to a libertarian streak in him. His replacement, were it to come with 45 still in office and with Republicans controlling the Senate, would certainly be more of a conservative tool than Gorsuch.
Make no mistake, Gorsuch is a horrible justice by and large and if we had a Democratic President and/or Senate, then I would welcome calls for his resignation. As it stands now, it is detrimental to seek his resignation now.
gulliver
(13,197 posts)EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)We almost almost blocked Kavanaugh.
If Gorsuch resigns McConnell will be weakened.
Dems will talk even more about the Federalist Society.
In politics, if you have the chance to win, you take it.
Impeach him.
Polybius
(15,510 posts)Kavanaugh came after him and is less conservative.
Nitram
(22,913 posts)look impotent. Impeach Trump first. All else will follow.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)Hes clearly illegitimate. He sits in a stolen seat.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)For Gorsuch to be removed you have to prove he committed a major crime. Just because we don't like him or question the circumstances of his appointment doesn't give grounds for impeachment the way the system works. Same way the electoral system doesn't have a mechanism for a do over for foreign interference.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)Impeachment is for what the Congress decides it's for.
You don't gotta prove jack about crimes.
And the electoral system has a mechanism for correcting foreign interference: impeachment.
Impeach Gorsuch. Impeach Trump. Impeach Kavanaugh. Undo Trump.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)From 1867, a classic discussion.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1867/01/the-causes-for-which-a-president-can-be-impeached/548144/
More recent.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/when-impeachment-right-remedy
And that guy is a Federalist Society conservative hack. He even says it is a mechanism for securing the state against serious threats to the government. Gorsuch applies.
Impeach him.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)The Constitution, Article II, Section 4: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
SCOTUS judge falls under this category.
While what constitutes this category is undefined and left to Congress, you still need some sort of fairly serious crime committed by the person being impeached.
Without evidence of a crime by Gorsuch, he cannot be impeached. Kavanaugh on the other hand could potentially be targeted.
I suggest you read the Constitution again and try to understand what it really says rather than what you wish it said.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Being corruptly appointed could count.
The problem isn't the legal argument, the problem is that we don't have the votes.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)I'm not aware of a actual criminal statute which could be brought against Gorsuch's nomination; and if so, the people who put him in place would be the ones chargeable. Gorsuch would probably be better described as a victim rather the a perpetrator in that circumstance (as nauseating as it sounds).
It comes back to the person being impeached has to have committed a crime. Our system just isn't written to handle what has occurred, and we are limited by the laws and constitution we have. Even if we change the laws to allow removal of officials appointed illegitimately, we still probably couldn't use them on Gorsuch as it would be an ex post facto scenario. Gorsuch is the product of the Pubs exploiting a loophole. A huge part of the reason we don't have the votes is because we don't have a good legal argument.
Kavanaugh on the other hand is much more targetable as both his possible pre-nomination crimes and potential cover-up are absolutely fair game.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)If we had 218 Representatives and 67 Senators who would vote for impeachment and removal, we should do it. But we don't.
former9thward
(32,097 posts)None. And that number will not change.
gulliver
(13,197 posts)McConnell essentially admitted that he stole the seat Gorsuch now occupies. I don't know of a precedent for something like that.
I don't seriously think he'll be impeached or that he'll resign. I just think that the question is worth bringing up. McConnell basically just admitted he stole Obama's constitutionally mandated SCOTUS appointment.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,900 posts)and it would have to be really serious - no Supreme Court justice has ever been removed from office. Only one (Samuel Chase in 1805) has ever even been impeached by the House, but he was acquitted by the Senate. Some lower federal court judges have been removed but in all those cases they had committed financial crimes, usually bribery. While Gorsuch got his position through the dirty tricks of Mitch McConnell, that wouldn't warrant his impeachment. There is no precedent for removing a judge because somebody else manipulated the system to get them appointed.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,900 posts)The solution is voting MConnell out of office, which will be merely extremely difficult as opposed to completely impossible.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)It would make us look like whiners. And, let's be honest, how many of the people who vote for McConnell care about him being 'fair'? On the other hand, there might be a way to frame the argument in the Senate if it came down to choosing another justice. I just don't know.
gulliver
(13,197 posts)He took stolen goods from McConnell, knowingly or not. I know...I know...but every first precedent is unprecedented. I'm just putting this out there without any serious hope of action being taken any time soon.
If we stop and think about it, what is actually off the wall is the idea that Gorsuch can keep Garland's seat. We knew McConnell was stealing the seat at the time, but now we essentially have a confession.
The Constitution wasn't intended to have gaping holes in it. McConnell didn't just "discover a loophole." The theft of Garland's seat is rightly thought of as a Constitutional crime, imo. I just think McConnell helped us establish that with his confession. If I were Gorsuch, I would be pissed at McConnell and ashamed.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)He doesn't have to do anything wrong, although I would say his consorting with Phil Anschutz is something wrong.
His impeachment is warranted if Congress decides it is. Impeachment is a political act.
If Congress decides a judge can be impeached, she/he can be impeached. History is is in the past. We are talking about the future.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,900 posts)It's true that impeachment is a political act, but if they couldn't remove Samuel Chase, good luck with Gorsuch. I guarantee this Senate will not remove Gorsuch.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)It is our job to shift public opinion. That simple.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That would be more do-able realistically than removing Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.
former9thward
(32,097 posts)Enormous blowback in the country and Congress. Went down in flames.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Same when Lincoln tried it, too
Xolodno
(6,406 posts)Much as I want him gone...and pisses me off that seat was stolen from Obama, the answer is no. Once you open the door for the court to be packed...we have no institution that is immune to politics. Even if it means the next 20 years will slant against our direction. Thomas Jefferson and FDR tried to overcome this and failed....and right fully so. Were going to see a conservative court for awhile, just accept it and learn to work around it.
You want to reform how judges are appointed? Then reform the Senate.....and that is easier than packing the SC.
And lets be honest, the recent conservative judges have surprised us....to the dismay of the rabid right. True they haven't been supportive of every liberal idea, but they have been loathe to reverse decisions of previous courts. Of course the recent abortion laws by some states will put them to the test. But I have to think, they are already looking at this and deciding to pass the hot potato. To reverse that, will almost certainly make the SC fully political...and for the first time, susceptible of the SC to be packed and they lose all influence. They are lifetime appointee's and thus not going anywhere. So they can wait out political winds, if they screw that up, they lose and gain power by election cycles...pretty sure they don't want to change that.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,900 posts)He was even worse than Scalia. I'm not defending Gorsuch or Kavanaugh, who shouldn't be there; but Rehnquist was absolutely terrible. He was Nixon's Bill Barr. He'd never been a judge before he was appointed, but had spent his entire career as a political operative for the GOP, and his opinions almost without exception were extreme and blatantly biased. Even Gorsuch and Kavanaugh have sided with the four liberal justices in a few cases. I don't hold out any hope that either of them will ever morph into an Earl Warren, but when we're talking about bad Supreme Court justices we should use Rehnquist as the paradigm.
JHB
(37,163 posts)...under the law that existed at the time. Thanks to that, ICs investigating Republicans were kept tightly focused, while investigations of Democrats had judges who gave them a lot more leeway.
And the pinnacle/nadir of this partisan selection was replacing an old-school Nixon-appointed judge George MacKinnon with Jesse Helms protege and politically-active judge David Sentelle. Sentelle and fellow conservative partisan judge Lawrence Silberman removed Robert Fisk from being in charge of the Whitewater investigation and replaced him with Ken Starr.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)The courts are already corrupted.
Either we pack the courts or we lose democracy. The current Republican judges will approve rule by minority oligarchs.
tritsofme
(17,413 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)gulliver
(13,197 posts)Then add two back.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)mcar
(42,403 posts)Then statehood for DC and Puerto Rico - 4 more senators.
onenote
(42,782 posts)It was never a principled decision and there was never any doubt that if the situation arose again but with a repub in the White House, he would push for the vacancy to be filled.
What he did lacked any integrity, but no surprise there. But it wasn't unconstitutional or illegal and Gorsuch can't be and won't be forced to resign. Nor will he be impeached and removed from office.
TeamPooka
(24,264 posts)ooky
(8,930 posts)come back to that question.
clementine613
(561 posts)Every Rethug on the Bench. Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Alito, Thomas and Roberts. They should all be impeached, convicted and sentenced*.
(* Yes, I know that Senate conviction is not a criminal conviction...)
Gothmog
(145,667 posts)You need 67 Senate votes to remove and with out 20 GOP senators, impeachment of a SCOTUS justice is meaningless
kacekwl
(7,024 posts)Let's get rid of the Orange anus 1st.
Initech
(100,108 posts)I'm not defending Gorsuch, but we can't allow Trump to fuck up SCOTUS even more than he already has. If anyone needs to go in this equation, it's Mitch McConnell.
Vinca
(50,318 posts)How about term limits for judges? Why should any judge be awarded an appointment for life? 10 years and you're out.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)or unconstitutional, just political. He had the votes, he called the shots. If we dont want that happening we need to win more elections.
Its all math.
Turin_C3PO
(14,087 posts)such a hypocritical asshole would cost him his seat. I know its Kentucky but damn.