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muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts) Sat Jun 15, 2019, 07:43 AM Jun 2019

Chinese state media urges retribution after UBS economist's 'insult' - doesn't look like one to me

Paul Donovan, global chief economist of UBS’s wealth management business, said in a podcast on Wednesday that consumer prices in China had risen after an outbreak of African swine fever killed a vast number of pigs and cut pork supplies.

“Does this matter? It matters if you are a Chinese pig. It matters if you like eating pork in China,” Donovan said in comments that some interpreted as referring to people, not livestock.
...
UBS apologised for any misunderstanding caused by Donovan’s comments and put the economist on leave. Donovan also said he was sorry.

“Whether or not Donovan was fired is still unknown, but those who insult Chinese people must pay the price,” the People’s Daily, the newspaper of China’s Communist Party, said in a commentary published late on Friday.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ubs-group-china/chinese-state-media-urges-retribution-after-ubs-economists-insult-idUKKCN1TG054

I just can't understand this. I can't see an insult there at all. Of course a cull of pigs matters to the pigs. And of course it matters to the people who eat them. To say that mentioning both means you're equating them is wilful stupidity, or looking for any possible way to take offence just to show you can demand things of anyone else.

This shows the power of China now - they can do something on the Trump level of public stupidity, and force a major bank to bend to their will just to placate their apparent hurt feelings and thin skin.

11 replies

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Chinese state media urges retribution after UBS economist's 'insult' - doesn't look like one to me (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 OP

Well if they want to keep their license to do business in China soryang Jun 2019 #1

No sentence was "ambivalent". Or even "ambiguous". muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #2

I hope American pigs don't catch the disease soryang Jun 2019 #3

You can say either. As I'm sure you know. muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #4

Do Americans get to decide what is appropriate in China? nt soryang Jun 2019 #5

Neither Paul Donovan, UBS nor I are American muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #6

That's why he apologized because there is nothing wrong soryang Jun 2019 #7

No, it's not "poor usage" muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #9

Do pigs "care?" nt soryang Jun 2019 #10

They're pretty intelligent. People keep them as pets. muriel_volestrangler Jun 2019 #11

No wonder moondust Jun 2019 #8

soryang

(3,299 posts)

1. Well if they want to keep their license to do business in China

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:42 AM

Jun 2019

When in Rome

“But you don’t need to be a native speaker to understand the derogatory connection between the word ‘pig’ and a culture,” Hong, wrote in a post on his personal WeChat account.

I'm guessing that if I posted a similarly ambivalent sentence here with the equivalent English expression it would be removed immediately.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts)

2. No sentence was "ambivalent". Or even "ambiguous".

Reply to soryang (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 11:14 AM

Jun 2019

The subject was the cull of pigs in China. So he talked about "Chinese pigs". And he talked about "if you like eating pork in China", which describes the literal consumers affected by a cull. What I can't find is talk of "a culture", which Hong seems to have made up. Or can you find that in a longer description of the podcast?

soryang

(3,299 posts)

3. I hope American pigs don't catch the disease

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 01:58 PM

Jun 2019

Or should I say pigs in the US?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts)

4. You can say either. As I'm sure you know.

Reply to soryang (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 02:39 PM

Jun 2019

See, for instance, this article on the same story - before China decided to throw a hissy fit: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212071505 . It uses "American pigs" and "China's pigs". The Chinese are pretending to take offence.

soryang

(3,299 posts)

5. Do Americans get to decide what is appropriate in China? nt

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 02:47 PM

Jun 2019

muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts)

6. Neither Paul Donovan, UBS nor I are American

Reply to soryang (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 02:58 PM

Jun 2019

Donovan and I are, however, British, and do indeed have a better knowledge of the English language, it seems, than anyone Chinese who has so far joined in this farce. Donovan was not, of course, in China. But the main point is that Donovan used standard English expressions to refer to the pigs the Chinese have been killing. His phrase was no more "ambiguous" than, for instance, "pigs in the US", which you used.

The Chinese media (with, I expect, the backing of the Chinese establishment) are pissing around, trying to show themselves powerful, by maliciously ruining someone's career for no reason.

soryang

(3,299 posts)

7. That's why he apologized because there is nothing wrong

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:18 PM

Jun 2019

It's poor usage. Start a business in China and be sure to use the phrase "Chinese pigs" and see how much business you get.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts)

9. No, it's not "poor usage"

Reply to soryang (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:36 PM

Jun 2019

As every native speaker of English knows, the usual way to refer to pigs in a country is to put the adjective for the country in front of "pigs". The Chinese are pretending to not know this.

He apologized because China is behaving like Trump - a thin-skinned buffoon who demands shows of obedience to soothe his ego. The less powerful sometimes give in. And then they find that's still not enough - they want him sacked.

soryang

(3,299 posts)

10. Do pigs "care?" nt

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:38 PM

Jun 2019

muriel_volestrangler

(101,337 posts)

11. They're pretty intelligent. People keep them as pets.

Reply to soryang (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:41 PM

Jun 2019

Hell, China is well known for assigning characteristics to them for its zodiac.

moondust

(20,001 posts)

8. No wonder

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 03:29 PM

Jun 2019

more than a million have been protesting more Chinese control in Hong Kong. If China can zero in on something that innocuous for retribution, there's no telling what else they'll go after with that iron fist.

It is *possible* that something was lost or distorted in translation, but still...

Perhaps China is learning from Trump that it's okay to attack any media coverage that is less than flattering.

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