Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:09 PM Jul 2019

How effective will those ICE raids targeting people with final deportation orders be?

Probably not very. The targeted individuals know that such orders exist and that raids are planned, so most of them will probably not be in the places ICE looks. Most of them haven't been in those places for some time. What does that mean?

What it will probably mean is that a bunch of people who are not named in final deportation orders will be arrested by the ICE officers for other reasons. Many of them will find themselves on the other side of the border without any chance to defend themselves.

Then, Trump will brag about all the people who got deported and we'll know nothing about who they were or the supposed reasons for their deportation.

Worse, there will no doubt be U.S. Citizens swept up in these raids and summarily deported without papers that prove their U.S. citizenship, making it very difficult for them to return to this country. That also happens a lot, and we usually know nothing about it.

Deportation statistics - that's what Trump is after, and the ICE agents will gladly help provide numbers for him to crow about.

That's the unreported truth of what ICE will be doing in these raids. They will go to the addresses on the Deportation orders. Good luck to the people at those addresses. They are at high risk of improper arrest and summary deportation. And we won't hear about their cases. We'll only hear Trump bragging about how effective the raids were.

Meanwhile, the people actually named in final deportation orders won't be where the orders say they are. They've moved on to other locations.

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How effective will those ICE raids targeting people with final deportation orders be? (Original Post) MineralMan Jul 2019 OP
We just moved into a new house last week underpants Jul 2019 #1
Law enforcement at all levels lacks subtlety. MineralMan Jul 2019 #7
They'll sweep up nonwhites who have a foreign accent and don't have a U.S. passport dalton99a Jul 2019 #2
instilling fear in the illegal community and applause from the GOP community so its another win beachbum bob Jul 2019 #3
Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #4
Gosh, that sounds a lot like something a right-winger would say. MineralMan Jul 2019 #8
Most police from major cities have already said they are not assisting-- including use of databases hlthe2b Jul 2019 #5
A majority of my neighbors speak a different language as their MineralMan Jul 2019 #9
I have East Indian, Latino and Asian neighbors (I think Korean), but they all work in hlthe2b Jul 2019 #10
Yes, keep your eyes open. MineralMan Jul 2019 #12
Yes. There have been TV PSAs running about those rights here. MineralMan Jul 2019 #11
I know for a fact we have some major Hispanic gangs in the Denver metro area ProudLib72 Jul 2019 #24
Yes. We do. As does LA and Chicago. hlthe2b Jul 2019 #25
Inevitably they are going to snatched up legal immigrants and citizens... Thomas Hurt Jul 2019 #6
Sounds pretty effective Midnightwalk Jul 2019 #13
Well, it's true that ICE probably doesn't really care. MineralMan Jul 2019 #15
As long as they get some Bettie Jul 2019 #14
That and instilling fear among immigrants. That's the other goal. MineralMan Jul 2019 #16
Yeah, that goes along with it Bettie Jul 2019 #17
I predict a disaster. panader0 Jul 2019 #18
Let's see if the raids actually come off. trump backed off before. And what's up with... brush Jul 2019 #19
I believe the whole point is to sow chaos and terror. In that, he will succeed. Hekate Jul 2019 #20
Yes. Terrorizing the immigrant community is his goal. MineralMan Jul 2019 #23
I hope that not only don't the cities give them any help Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #21
The problem with that is that rank-and-file cops are probably MineralMan Jul 2019 #22

underpants

(182,823 posts)
1. We just moved into a new house last week
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:13 PM
Jul 2019

I hadn’t thought about the next-tenant element. Wow this is going to be really sad.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
7. Law enforcement at all levels lacks subtlety.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:23 PM
Jul 2019

One day at my house in St. Paul, MN, I was working at my computer when I heard very loud knocking at my kitchen door. I went upstairs to check on it. I could see a couple of cops at the door, so I opened it.

"Where is {name}!?!

"There's nobody here by that name."

"We know he's in there. Can we come in?"

"No. I told you, there is nobody here by that name."

"We have a warrant for {name's} arrest."

"What address is on your warrant."

"2076 {street name}"

"This is 2067 {Name of next street to the south of the street they named}"

Anyhow, after telling them to go to the front of the house and look at the street number, and then telling them to go to the nearest cross street and check the name of the street, I simply shut the door and went back to work. They were at the wrong address on the wrong street. Fortunately, they did not barge into my home to try to find {name}. That's probably because I'm an old white man, and the name they said did not sound like an old white man's name.

And that's how the wrong people get arrested or worse by law enforcement people. It happens all the time. And those ICE people aren't familiar with the neighborhoods they'll be going to, so it will be even worse.

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
8. Gosh, that sounds a lot like something a right-winger would say.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:25 PM
Jul 2019

So, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
5. Most police from major cities have already said they are not assisting-- including use of databases
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:17 PM
Jul 2019

I know in Denver, there has been a MAJOR educational campaign from ACLU, the mayor's office, and other immigrant support groups to educate on legal rights--including the fact that an ADMINISTRATIVE WARRANT IS NOT a LEGALLY BINDING SEARCH WARRANT (the former has no judge's signature) and thus they have no obligation to allow entrance to the home and if ICE forces their way in, they should call the police (and a lawyer). They have also provided an app that allows for video to be directly streamed to a website so that it could not be forcibly deleted from the phone before uploading. I have it on my phone too.

I don't believe I have any neighbors anywhere close by that would be affected, but boy would I stand up for them if I saw them being mistreated.

This is like sending a SWAT team for a jaywalker. Yes, the latter technically broke the law, but really? This is the priority for Immigration enforcement?

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
9. A majority of my neighbors speak a different language as their
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:27 PM
Jul 2019

primary language - not English. They're also not Caucasians. So, it's possible that the ICE cops could show up on my street.

I have Hmong neighbors, Somali neighbors, and Hispanic neighbors.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
10. I have East Indian, Latino and Asian neighbors (I think Korean), but they all work in
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:32 PM
Jul 2019

professions that I think it would be nearly impossible not to have come "through the system"...

Then again, you never know and they COULD have some relatives with them that are undocumented, so I will have my "antennae" up...

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
11. Yes. There have been TV PSAs running about those rights here.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:33 PM
Jul 2019

I don't think the Twin Cities of MN are among the targeted cities, though.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
24. I know for a fact we have some major Hispanic gangs in the Denver metro area
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:00 PM
Jul 2019

And I keep waiting for backlash from them. You know, in certain areas, things could get really ugly really fast.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
25. Yes. We do. As does LA and Chicago.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:05 PM
Jul 2019

I'll bet instead that ICE will target the otherwise law-abiding and peaceful mixed families for their own safety and maximum "terror" benefit. All the more tragic.

Midnightwalk

(3,131 posts)
13. Sounds pretty effective
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:36 PM
Jul 2019

As you suggest the “unreported truth” is that the goals are not exactly what is stated. I’m pretty sure you mean that everything you mention is a feature not a bug.

One thing you didn’t mention is the logistics and expense of deporting the 1M people with final deportation orders and the larger set of people who haven’t is hard. They don’t really want to get everyone this time.

It is very depressing typing that and realizing that the brutality will continue to increase.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
15. Well, it's true that ICE probably doesn't really care.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:38 PM
Jul 2019

Their success will be measured by counting the number of people apprehended, without reference to whether those apprehensions were justified. There have been many horror stories about ICE raids.

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
14. As long as they get some
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:36 PM
Jul 2019

"law and order" pictures of them treating people with brown skin brutally (bonus for extra guns pointed at them), the raids will have done their job. It is all about stoking racism and making sure the worst anti-immigrant feelings in our country are kept at a fever pitch.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
16. That and instilling fear among immigrants. That's the other goal.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:39 PM
Jul 2019

When the troopers come in the night...

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
17. Yeah, that goes along with it
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:54 PM
Jul 2019

heck, even the threats of raids are enough to make immigrants afraid.

I'm so tired of....well, everything. It's like standing in front of a water cannon of sewage every freaking day.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
18. I predict a disaster.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 01:08 PM
Jul 2019

If you were here illegally and knew that a raid was coming, you'd go stay somewhere else for a while. Innocents will be arrested. There will be some violence, perhaps on each side.
Much money will be spent. The optics will be terrible.
In other words, typical Trump BS.

brush

(53,782 posts)
19. Let's see if the raids actually come off. trump backed off before. And what's up with...
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 02:46 PM
Jul 2019

the several days warning—"We're coming this weekend, we're coming"?

It's like they're giving people time to find a good place to not be found.

And where are they going to house all these people? Imagine the video and images of people being rounded up and crowded into buses and put in more pens, or even hotels as is rumored.

This won't go over well for trump, and trump probably needs to stop putting so much faith in the little nazi Steven Miller's judgment.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
23. Yes. Terrorizing the immigrant community is his goal.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:59 PM
Jul 2019

Of that, I'm certain, or he wouldn't be acting as he is. He is totally unconcerned about the sentiments of that community, and seeks to dehumanize and demoralize everyone in that community.

He is succeeding in doing so.

 

Everyman Jackal

(271 posts)
21. I hope that not only don't the cities give them any help
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:55 PM
Jul 2019

but their police forces shadow ICE wherever they go.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
22. The problem with that is that rank-and-file cops are probably
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:57 PM
Jul 2019

pretty well aligned with the ICE officers. That's the sad fact, I'm afraid.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How effective will those ...