General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow effective will those ICE raids targeting people with final deportation orders be?
Probably not very. The targeted individuals know that such orders exist and that raids are planned, so most of them will probably not be in the places ICE looks. Most of them haven't been in those places for some time. What does that mean?
What it will probably mean is that a bunch of people who are not named in final deportation orders will be arrested by the ICE officers for other reasons. Many of them will find themselves on the other side of the border without any chance to defend themselves.
Then, Trump will brag about all the people who got deported and we'll know nothing about who they were or the supposed reasons for their deportation.
Worse, there will no doubt be U.S. Citizens swept up in these raids and summarily deported without papers that prove their U.S. citizenship, making it very difficult for them to return to this country. That also happens a lot, and we usually know nothing about it.
Deportation statistics - that's what Trump is after, and the ICE agents will gladly help provide numbers for him to crow about.
That's the unreported truth of what ICE will be doing in these raids. They will go to the addresses on the Deportation orders. Good luck to the people at those addresses. They are at high risk of improper arrest and summary deportation. And we won't hear about their cases. We'll only hear Trump bragging about how effective the raids were.
Meanwhile, the people actually named in final deportation orders won't be where the orders say they are. They've moved on to other locations.
underpants
(182,823 posts)I hadnt thought about the next-tenant element. Wow this is going to be really sad.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)One day at my house in St. Paul, MN, I was working at my computer when I heard very loud knocking at my kitchen door. I went upstairs to check on it. I could see a couple of cops at the door, so I opened it.
"Where is {name}!?!
"There's nobody here by that name."
"We know he's in there. Can we come in?"
"No. I told you, there is nobody here by that name."
"We have a warrant for {name's} arrest."
"What address is on your warrant."
"2076 {street name}"
"This is 2067 {Name of next street to the south of the street they named}"
Anyhow, after telling them to go to the front of the house and look at the street number, and then telling them to go to the nearest cross street and check the name of the street, I simply shut the door and went back to work. They were at the wrong address on the wrong street. Fortunately, they did not barge into my home to try to find {name}. That's probably because I'm an old white man, and the name they said did not sound like an old white man's name.
And that's how the wrong people get arrested or worse by law enforcement people. It happens all the time. And those ICE people aren't familiar with the neighborhoods they'll be going to, so it will be even worse.
dalton99a
(81,513 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)So, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.
hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)I know in Denver, there has been a MAJOR educational campaign from ACLU, the mayor's office, and other immigrant support groups to educate on legal rights--including the fact that an ADMINISTRATIVE WARRANT IS NOT a LEGALLY BINDING SEARCH WARRANT (the former has no judge's signature) and thus they have no obligation to allow entrance to the home and if ICE forces their way in, they should call the police (and a lawyer). They have also provided an app that allows for video to be directly streamed to a website so that it could not be forcibly deleted from the phone before uploading. I have it on my phone too.
I don't believe I have any neighbors anywhere close by that would be affected, but boy would I stand up for them if I saw them being mistreated.
This is like sending a SWAT team for a jaywalker. Yes, the latter technically broke the law, but really? This is the priority for Immigration enforcement?
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)primary language - not English. They're also not Caucasians. So, it's possible that the ICE cops could show up on my street.
I have Hmong neighbors, Somali neighbors, and Hispanic neighbors.
hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)professions that I think it would be nearly impossible not to have come "through the system"...
Then again, you never know and they COULD have some relatives with them that are undocumented, so I will have my "antennae" up...
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Many mistakes could be made by people unfamiliar with your area.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I don't think the Twin Cities of MN are among the targeted cities, though.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)And I keep waiting for backlash from them. You know, in certain areas, things could get really ugly really fast.
hlthe2b
(102,283 posts)I'll bet instead that ICE will target the otherwise law-abiding and peaceful mixed families for their own safety and maximum "terror" benefit. All the more tragic.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)As you suggest the unreported truth is that the goals are not exactly what is stated. Im pretty sure you mean that everything you mention is a feature not a bug.
One thing you didnt mention is the logistics and expense of deporting the 1M people with final deportation orders and the larger set of people who havent is hard. They dont really want to get everyone this time.
It is very depressing typing that and realizing that the brutality will continue to increase.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Their success will be measured by counting the number of people apprehended, without reference to whether those apprehensions were justified. There have been many horror stories about ICE raids.
Bettie
(16,110 posts)"law and order" pictures of them treating people with brown skin brutally (bonus for extra guns pointed at them), the raids will have done their job. It is all about stoking racism and making sure the worst anti-immigrant feelings in our country are kept at a fever pitch.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)When the troopers come in the night...
Bettie
(16,110 posts)heck, even the threats of raids are enough to make immigrants afraid.
I'm so tired of....well, everything. It's like standing in front of a water cannon of sewage every freaking day.
panader0
(25,816 posts)If you were here illegally and knew that a raid was coming, you'd go stay somewhere else for a while. Innocents will be arrested. There will be some violence, perhaps on each side.
Much money will be spent. The optics will be terrible.
In other words, typical Trump BS.
brush
(53,782 posts)the several days warning"We're coming this weekend, we're coming"?
It's like they're giving people time to find a good place to not be found.
And where are they going to house all these people? Imagine the video and images of people being rounded up and crowded into buses and put in more pens, or even hotels as is rumored.
This won't go over well for trump, and trump probably needs to stop putting so much faith in the little nazi Steven Miller's judgment.
Hekate
(90,706 posts)Gods I hate him.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Of that, I'm certain, or he wouldn't be acting as he is. He is totally unconcerned about the sentiments of that community, and seeks to dehumanize and demoralize everyone in that community.
He is succeeding in doing so.
Everyman Jackal
(271 posts)but their police forces shadow ICE wherever they go.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)pretty well aligned with the ICE officers. That's the sad fact, I'm afraid.