The pension were part of the employee’s compensation package. I believe that they should be paid by the employers and if they are no longer around then the executives of those firms who made the agreements and most likely came out really well in their our separation packages.

The Multi Employer pension crisis is a complicated issue and the system is designed much differently that company run pension plans.

Take the trucking industry for example; as many of the existing Teamster represented trucking companies went out of business, the burden of paying the pensions falls on the ones remaining. Some of the profitable companies, like UPS, saw the handwriting on the wall, and didn't want to be in the position of not only funding the pensions of their own retirees, but being responsible for everyone else's as well. They negotiated a buyout clause with the Teamsters to be able to exit. Short term, this gave the pension funds a lot of cash, but long-term it jeopardized the pension plans even more.

That means that the ratio of active to retired is very unfavorable to continue to fund these plans. Bipartisan legislation was passed in 2014 with many of the unions supporting it, that would have allowed cuts to be made to keep the pensions viable. In some cases that made sense, but others were already so far in the hole that it wasn't going to guarantee anything.

Understandably, while the unions supported these reductions, many of the recepients would not agree to any cuts at all, and dug in for a big fight. In the meantime, these plans financial situations have become worse and worse.

one not easily solved. I find it disgusting that pensioners would even be asked to take a reduction in their retirement.

1). I believe recipients should not have to take cuts or lose benefits.

2). Taxpayers should not have to bail out these funds.

3). The principals of the companies who went out of business (likely owing money to the funds) should be forced to contribute.

4). The current companies should pay their fair share to build up the funds.

5). Any mismanagement that may have occurred should be addressed.

And I realize none of that will happen, just wish that it would.

No way will Trump back that He profited handsomely by shedding debt through bankruptcy.

just wish that the retirees were made whole.

I don't expect The "Esteemed" Mr. Trump to agree with me on any issue at any time.

I'm not sure that people understand that multi employer pension funds are completely different than those defined benefit pension plans from individual companies. The $$$ from hundreds or thousands of employers are combined into a single pension fund that is administered by joint industry/union appointed trustees. Employees can work for many different employers during their career under one combined pension plan.


I'll address your points

1) Agreed that taking cuts isn't very palatable, but the money just isn't there when the number of actives is far outweighed by the number of retirees. There is a Multi Employer federal pension guarantee board, but it is vastly underfunded and when they take over a pension plan, the retirees don't get near their full amount.


2) Taxpayers with no pensions or self funded 401k plans would not be very happy about having to bail out others with full pensions.

3) Most of these pension funds are managed by union appointed trustees. Are you suggesting that Teamsters officials, for example, should be personally liable?

4) They are not only already paying their fair share, they are paying for many who they never employed. That is one of the major problems currently. As the number of active companies involved in these plans have dwindled, those who remain are left holding the bag for many retirees that they never had anything to do with.

Many see the handwriting on the wall and negotiate a buyout with the Teamsters to exit the plans, like UPS for example. This of course makes it even harder for those remaining to support the rest.

5) See #3

There is likely going to be a compromise involving some level of cuts to retirees, and even perhaps the Teamsters and other unions putting up their assets as collateral for the loans. If everyone digs in, the pension plans will go further and further behind. They have already kicked the can down the road way too long already. State and Local governments are facing the same issues, but at least they can always raise taxes if push comes to shove.

a single pension fund that is administered by joint industry/union appointed trustees. So it is not just Teamsters or Union Trustees who are running the show on these funds.

BTW I am in a multi employer pension fund and understand how they work.

I was expressing my sentiments on what I would like to have happen, not what I expect to have happen.

As mentioned below in this thread the Pensions should be at the top of the list when a bankruptcy occurs or a business dissolves as to receiving what they are due.

This shite's been going on since I was a young man in the seventies.

then legitimate debtholders and then finally shareholders.

Just another aspect of corporate socialism.

The workers and their pensions should certainly be first in line. It is indeed another aspect of corporate socialism as you describe.

Last edited Sat Jul 13, 2019, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

So what do you do now?

These Multi Employer pension funds are NOT managed and controlled by the employers themselves for their own employees

Also, many of these Multi Employer plans find themselves in the same situation as state and local government pensions.

Poor investment decisions, counting on a rate of return that didn't materialize, and sometimes, over promising benefits that become impossible to sustain, and can't be easily reversed.

He'll find someway to screw people and line his own pockets, because that is what this corrupt cabal of radical republicans does.