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So, that slaughterhouse owner who hired 600+ undocumented people (Original Post) Recursion Aug 2019 OP
They had better. ProudMNDemocrat Aug 2019 #1
K&R wryter2000 Aug 2019 #2
I've been wondering if it triggered an I-9 audit with a $10,000 fine for every mistake. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2019 #3
old McD problem JT45242 Aug 2019 #11
Since Koch Foods is in four other states besides, the feds could inspect them there, too. ancianita Aug 2019 #22
FYI llmart Aug 2019 #31
Any employer can avoid an I9 fine. Cicada Aug 2019 #24
That's why E-verfying every work should be required by law TexasBushwhacker Aug 2019 #40
I just learned some states require it, including Mississippi Cicada Aug 2019 #43
Depends on how much he donated to Spanky's re-election/slush fund. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2019 #4
Only If He didn't donate to the Republicans TheRealNorth Aug 2019 #5
Open Secrets shows he donated $10,000 last election cycle to a PAC- PA Democrat Aug 2019 #46
Many have pointed out before SCantiGOP Aug 2019 #6
There's even an easier idea customerserviceguy Aug 2019 #15
Even Cesar Chavez was against the hiring of undocumented workers Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #21
Chavez's stance did shift teach1st Aug 2019 #44
Hmm, I did not know that. Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #45
Do you have any idea how many times and how many millions the Koch ... marble falls Aug 2019 #7
Not related to those brothers CurtEastPoint Aug 2019 #8
Koch Foods isn't related to the Koch Bros. JHB Aug 2019 #9
Were they seen in the same room together? (nt) Recursion Aug 2019 #10
Oil Fred died in 1967, chicken Fred founded the food company in 1973 JHB Aug 2019 #14
The perfect alibi... (nt) Recursion Aug 2019 #29
I would like to see this claim verified. TryLogic Aug 2019 #12
yeah are we sure about this? Joe941 Aug 2019 #13
Yes. JHB Aug 2019 #18
Fine JHB Aug 2019 #17
We are in no way affiliated with the Koch brothers, Koch Industries, Koch Companies or any other org IronLionZion Aug 2019 #20
A Koch brother? Duppers Aug 2019 #16
Agree with sanctions UNLESS the employer was paying decent wages, etc. Hoyt Aug 2019 #19
That would only happen if illegal immigration was an actual problem since it's not cstanleytech Aug 2019 #23
I just saw a sign outside the building on CNN - "Koch Foods". Owned by the Koch Bros.? George II Aug 2019 #25
See post #17. No. oldsoftie Aug 2019 #35
Pfffft Hell No. otherwise they wouldn't hire them. flying_wahini Aug 2019 #26
One other thing the farmers and labor contractors do consistently ... lpbk2713 Aug 2019 #32
Sooo.. okay to scream deport the Managment and HR team that hired?? Amimnoch Aug 2019 #27
lololol the koch brothers? rampartc Aug 2019 #28
Different Koch brothers, but fair point (nt) Recursion Aug 2019 #34
most likely not. my late mom and i have been asking the question for years and no answer. AllaN01Bear Aug 2019 #30
Tyson Foods managers arranged for delivery of illegal workers with undercover immigration officials pecosbob Aug 2019 #33
Here's what I don't get Windy City Charlie Aug 2019 #36
That slaughterhouse owner is facing tons of rotting meat & work no American will do Hekate Aug 2019 #37
I saw an interesting proposal on Reddit this morning 2020Junker Aug 2019 #39
they sometimes protect themselves by a layer of employment. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #38
THIS malaise Aug 2019 #41
They cheaply got rid of a lot of easily replaced workers who may have been getting uppity. hunter Aug 2019 #42
That is EXACTLY what he did! Raster Aug 2019 #47

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,786 posts)
1. They had better.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:14 PM
Aug 2019

This is part of the Immigration that is NOT getting enough attention. Work no American wants to do. Employers who hire under the table to skirt the law, cheat workers out of fair wages in order to make huge profits. Another form of SLAVERY.

wryter2000

(46,051 posts)
2. K&R
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:15 PM
Aug 2019

I wouldn't bet my SS check that they were all undocumented. I'd guess ICE might have rounded up anyone who appeared Latinx. Still, your point is spot on.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
3. I've been wondering if it triggered an I-9 audit with a $10,000 fine for every mistake.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:21 PM
Aug 2019

Not every form or missing form, every mistake on each form. If it doesn't, we definitely have some answers to your questions.

At a minimum, minimum (!), the company should be facing a $6 million fine on this documentary infraction alone. That's before any other penalties that might apply are thrown in to the mix.

JT45242

(2,281 posts)
11. old McD problem
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:23 PM
Aug 2019

When I was an assistant manager at McDonald's. One of my jobs every month was to check the I9 form of every employee (including white bread me), because the person who did it before me didn't update the forms when drivers licenses expired etc. We got hit with a boat load of fines because the inspector loved to put it to McDonalds.

Would be a great revenue stream for the government if they went after the business owners (who would probably then push for an amnesty and green cards to protect their profits).

So, this owner should be getting killed with fines while facing all sorts of other economic pressures (inability to sell overseas thanks to tariff wars).

Doubt it will happen, but it should.

ancianita

(36,110 posts)
22. Since Koch Foods is in four other states besides, the feds could inspect them there, too.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:41 PM
Aug 2019

Republicans won't like their laws imposed on them.

Maybe this will soften them up about DACA and other kinds of immigration reform.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
24. Any employer can avoid an I9 fine.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:44 PM
Aug 2019

Employers in many cases know the employees are unauthorized. So what? If the employee presents papers, which everyone knows are phony, photocopy them, end of story. No fine. It’s all a scam, everyone on all sides know it’s a scam. It would be easy to prevent this scam but no one wants to end it. Not the employee, not the employer, not elected representatives who understand these workers are actually good for the economy, good for legals too. So everybody just plays along with this game. I confess. I prepare payroll reports I know are phony. But are legal. I don’t want this system to change. This make believe world is better than the alternative. Where these workers don’t get hired.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,205 posts)
40. That's why E-verfying every work should be required by law
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 07:53 PM
Aug 2019

Right now it's voluntary, which is ridiculous.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
43. I just learned some states require it, including Mississippi
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 08:42 PM
Aug 2019

Yes, we can stop most employment of those here without authority, if we want to. But we have a huge shortage of low skill workers. That’s why everyone ignores solutions. We need to legally admit way more workers. From an economic point of view. We should combine that with compensation to those already here who get harmed. Job and wage security.

TheRealNorth

(9,481 posts)
5. Only If He didn't donate to the Republicans
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:31 PM
Aug 2019

Republicans will protect their own. But if he is a Democratic donor, he's fooked.

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
46. Open Secrets shows he donated $10,000 last election cycle to a PAC-
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 08:03 AM
Aug 2019

the National Chicken Council, and surprise, surprise, it looks like they largely support Republicans.

National Chicken Council donors:
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgave2.php?cycle=2018&cmte=C00034272

Recipients of $$$$ from the National Chicken Council:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?cycle=2018&id=D000000568



SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
6. Many have pointed out before
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:31 PM
Aug 2019

The issue of extra-legal immigration could be solved with one simple law. (before proceeding, a note that I am not defending this position, merely noting it)
===Don't sanction those who are working illegally, but impose mandatory prison sentences and meaningful fines on the owners and managers at any facility found to have workers who are not working legally.
This approach would never be adopted by the conservatives because 1) it would punish the wealthy instead of the poor, and 2) it would wreck many aspects of our agricultural system, from harvesting to processing.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
15. There's even an easier idea
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:28 PM
Aug 2019

No eVerify, no deduction for that employee's wages on a personal or corporate tax return.

This could even be adopted by the states that have an income tax. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the states cannot make immigration law, but they can make tax law within their borders.

Farmer-Rick

(10,192 posts)
21. Even Cesar Chavez was against the hiring of undocumented workers
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:40 PM
Aug 2019

Because it destroyed the labor market for everyone.

teach1st

(5,935 posts)
44. Chavez's stance did shift
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 09:20 PM
Aug 2019
https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/cesar-chavezs-complex-history-immigration/story?id=19083496

From when he co-founded United Farm Workers in 1962 with Dolores Huerta, Chavez took a hard line on illegal immigration. He thought employers would use undocumented workers as strike breakers, and that temporary workers would undermine the wages of Mexican American residents and citizens. He even reported some undocumented workers to immigration authorities, Gutiérrez writes.

But through the early 1970s, it became clear that Chavez's position was out-of-step with other Mexican American rights groups.

In 1974, the government announced a plan to deport a million undocumented immigrants, and the Attorney General said the plan had the support of United Farm Workers. Chicano activists erupted, and Chavez denied supporting the proposal.

He explained his shifting position later that year in a November 22 letter to the editor, published in the San Francisco Examiner.

"[T]he illegal aliens are doubly exploited, first because they are farm workers, and second because they are powerless to defend their own interests," he wrote. "But if there were no illegals being used to break our strikes, we could win those strikes overnight and then be in a position to improve the living and working conditions of all farm workers."

He promised that United Farm Workers would support legalization for the undocumented, "our brothers and sisters."

Chavez wasn't alone in changing his ideology, Gutiérrez writes. In fact, his shift from an immigration restrictionist to an "amnesty" supporter reflected the greater movement in Mexican American rights.

Farmer-Rick

(10,192 posts)
45. Hmm, I did not know that.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 07:37 AM
Aug 2019

Sad thing is Amnesty didn't work either.

The only real solution is hold employers accountable. They have no right to cheap and easily abused labor. It's the filthy rich who are making money off of this situation.

Then also I would look at some consistent humane refugee policies.

marble falls

(57,124 posts)
7. Do you have any idea how many times and how many millions the Koch ...
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:32 PM
Aug 2019

broters have paid over the decades for using undocumented workers - many times and millions. They've since become 'woke'.

There isn't a "meat processor" in Iowa or Nebraska that couldn't be raided and fined today, right now.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
9. Koch Foods isn't related to the Koch Bros.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 12:41 PM
Aug 2019

Its CEO is another billionaire named Joseph Grendys.

It was founded by a Fred Koch, but not that Fred Koch.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
14. Oil Fred died in 1967, chicken Fred founded the food company in 1973
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:27 PM
Aug 2019

Maybe that says something about the chicken

JHB

(37,161 posts)
17. Fine
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:33 PM
Aug 2019

From the AP report on the arrests:
https://apnews.com/bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23

The company has no relation to prominent conservative political donors and activists Charles and David Koch.


From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Grendys
Grendys started full-time at Koch Foods in the mid-1980s, when it had just 13 employees.[1] The owner Fred Koch was one of his father's customers, having started Koch Foods in 1973, and offered him a 50% equity share in the business.[2]

He bought out Fred Koch in 1992. Grendys' companies now slaughter, ship and sell chicken using the Koch Foods, Antioch Farms, Preferred Foods and Rogers Royal brands.[1] Koch slaughters over 12 million chickens and processes over 50,000,000 pounds (23,000 t) of chicken every week.[4]

In 2011, Koch employed 14,000 people, had an annual turnover of $2.8 billion, and was one of America's five largest "fully-integrated chicken processors".[5]


The Fred C. Koch who founded Koch industries died in 1967.

IronLionZion

(45,466 posts)
20. We are in no way affiliated with the Koch brothers, Koch Industries, Koch Companies or any other org
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:38 PM
Aug 2019

ARE YOU RELATED TO OTHER COMPANIES WITH THE KOCH NAME?
Koch Foods is an independent, privately held company that specializes in the processing of poultry. We are in no way affiliated with the Koch brothers, Koch Industries, Koch Companies or any other organization that uses the Koch name.

http://kochfoodsinc.com/our-company/faq
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
19. Agree with sanctions UNLESS the employer was paying decent wages, etc.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:33 PM
Aug 2019

What are we going to do, sanction employers who are treating undocumented workers fairly (debatable, of course), making them all but unemployable, while starving them in Mexico and Central American countries by harsh trade policies.

cstanleytech

(26,300 posts)
23. That would only happen if illegal immigration was an actual problem since it's not
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 01:43 PM
Aug 2019

the owner will not face any major repercussions.

flying_wahini

(6,617 posts)
26. Pfffft Hell No. otherwise they wouldn't hire them.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 02:30 PM
Aug 2019

This has been my argument for the last 40+ years. (I live in Texas.)

If Republicans wanted fix the immigration ‘problem’ they WOULD HAVE.
They have been in control of the Texas Legislation for DECADES.

The reason they don’t is so they have people that will work hard and they exploit
Them with low pay, unpaid overtime and few benefits.

It’s a Big Win for these business owners.

lpbk2713

(42,761 posts)
32. One other thing the farmers and labor contractors do consistently ...
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 02:52 PM
Aug 2019



They keep the latest wages earned by the undoc workers. They don't have
the resources to hire attorneys and they sure as hell can't show up in court.

AllaN01Bear

(18,275 posts)
30. most likely not. my late mom and i have been asking the question for years and no answer.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 02:44 PM
Aug 2019

oh, but they are the job crerators . hem.

pecosbob

(7,541 posts)
33. Tyson Foods managers arranged for delivery of illegal workers with undercover immigration officials
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 03:01 PM
Aug 2019

Six managers were indicted. A federal jury acquitted Tyson of having knowingly hired illegal immigrants.

Windy City Charlie

(1,178 posts)
36. Here's what I don't get
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 03:13 PM
Aug 2019

If these companies thought all of these workers were legal, why were they probably paying them below minimum wage? You know that's what's going on. "We had NO idea they were illegal". BS

That's why the Republicans only talk a good game about illegal immigration.....they know exactly what their donors are doing.....because these owners know if any of the illegals raise a fuss, all they have to do is contact their Republican friends and get those people deported.

Hekate

(90,734 posts)
37. That slaughterhouse owner is facing tons of rotting meat & work no American will do
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 03:53 PM
Aug 2019

I'd like to see further penalties -- maybe.

But mostly I'd like to see an intelligent and legal arrangement that acknowledges what is: that Americans no longer do certain kinds of labor no matter how much you pay; that American plant managers have a chat with their Spanish-speaking leadmen and arrange for X number of seasonal workers to come in from the home village; that Y number will stay year-round. That's what IS. Legalize it.

In addition, acknowledge and plan for: decent housing, children, schools, medical care, ESL classes for adults, and other elements of a human life. PLAN for it. The people themselves will fill in the blanks: little grocery stores with foods they prefer, churches in their native language, barber shops, you name it.

But for the sake of all the gods, stop this insanity and inhumanity of treating Mexicans and Central Americans like political footballs generation after generation after generation. What is happening.
now is worse than ever and shames America to the core.

 

2020Junker

(99 posts)
39. I saw an interesting proposal on Reddit this morning
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 03:58 PM
Aug 2019

A North American Workers agreement.

What it would mean is that people could work while remaining citizens of their country, but they would be tracked, taxed, and subject to the local jurisdiction's labor laws.

Obviously, quite a lot would have to be hashed out there. But it's at least something to flesh out and think on when trying to ensure companies aren't using undocumented immigrants to undercut wage laws and taxes. Something to reign in the exploitation of the most vulnerable.

Because it's absolutely clear the federal government does not have a handle on the exploited immigrant worker problem.

aikoaiko

(34,174 posts)
38. they sometimes protect themselves by a layer of employment.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 03:57 PM
Aug 2019

I've seen it before where the migrants work for a third party. The factory hires and pays the third party to hire and pay the migrants.

Plausible deniability.

hunter

(38,321 posts)
42. They cheaply got rid of a lot of easily replaced workers who may have been getting uppity.
Thu Aug 8, 2019, 08:07 PM
Aug 2019

God Bless U.S.A. socialist institutions.

In the old days industrialists who abused their workers to the point of organizing had to call the Pinkertons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States






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