about what the hell happened.

all possibilities are considered. I'm really pissed that you and some others continue to equate a professional investigation that would be routine in this kind of situation and any and all discussion regarding as tinfoil conspiracy.

Even the judge on Epstein's case has officially requested additional information--including what has never been answered as to Epstein's previous incident just a couple of weeks prior.

When the DOJ, FBI, and the courts believe there are unanswered questions, then who are you to say THEY are wrong?

that that opinion was the prevailing opinion by many here despite the obvious fact that many rich and powerful people benefited from Epstein being dead.

IMO pushing the unassisted suicide theory was as much a conspiracy theory as the so-called conspiracy theory that he was killed.

Now that the autopsy has shown that such a bone break in the neck happens more often in strangulation (murder) than when someone hangs himself, there's an outcry for a thorough investigation when before the unassisted suicide theory seemed to be the one many were rushing to accept and Barr and the DOJ seemed to be pushing.

I and many others here are pleased that there will be a thorough investigation.

no more than your own theory, conspiracy or not. Your attitude that you are somehow more in the know, literally from the day it happened, runs counter to the officials charged with investigating it. I don't care if you have your mind made up, but I do mind when you grossly excoriate others for merely wanting to wait on the FACTS. Your behavior in this regard is no better than those who jump at a murder accusation.

CT just for merely BACKING the investigation. I am glad if you have now come around.

we made it known we didn't accept the "unassisted suicide" theory.

I'm glad there will now be an investigation and I am now through with this.

controversial incident is a "conspiracy theory" makes them more logical or intelligent than everyone else. It's a pretty annoying habit around here.

As far as I am concerned, nobody really knows what happened and until a thorough investigation has been completed, anything is possible.

it.

In other words, murder.

Do you agree?

It's most common when someone is totally suspended, hanging by their entire bodyweight ... NOT in people who hang themselves ... say ... from an upper bunk ... when they're much taller than the bunk is high ... and hence remain in contact with the ground when hanging themselves.

The vast majority of hangings are of the first variety you mentioned.

We are apparently not on the same page here ... care to elaborate?

In fact, my understanding is that that's how it's supposed to work. If the combination of your weight and the length of the drop exceeds some threshold, your neck breaks and you're unconscious and move rapidly to brain death (supposedly resulting in an easier death than most other forms of execution/suicide). If the force of the drop is insufficient to break the neck, then you're dying by strangulation (presumably less pleasant).

In this case (and what follows is mere speculation because I haven't seen clear facts), there was no way to actually put his full body weight onto his neck, let alone "drop" any distance... so while we read that he "hanged" himself, he really strangled himself. He supposedly had to kneel and lean out over the room. That would put the force on entirely different parts of his neck than a normal hanging. Quite reasonably on the same parts of the neck that other forms of strangulation would.

Doesn't mean that the suicide story is true... it just means that the injury details don't provide proof that it isn't.

Than strangling yourself with a sheet ... with little to no 'drop' involved ... would.

Doesn't it seem like it's probably unlikely ANY bones would break, strangling yourself by the described method?

Would you concede this point?

I can't evaluate whether your thought that strangulation by someone else would exert more force than he could have been exerting with... say... his legs is compelling. I think it would be greater if the other person were using a garrote or similar... but I would expect that to leave identifiable marks.

I don't discount the possibility. I just don't see that the type of break being different from a "normal" hanging tells us much because nothing in the story as reported so far sounds like we should expect the results of a "normal" hanging. I think the correct position at this point is to agree that the overall scenario does not instill confidence that no foul play was involved... but also does not point to it as the most likely scenario.

if he hung himself w a bed sheet off a bunk bed, i dont see how this is forceful enough to break bones.

i suspect that it would take either a good height, a heavy body, or a thin rope that would concentrate the force.

yeah, curiouser and curiouser.

Not bunk-bed and door-knob hangings, with sheets ... as you point out.

feet off the floor.

Enough to dangle, such that the entire weight of your body is being supported by the bones in your neck, IOW.

And no bunk bed is high enough unless you're like <3 feet tall and can suspend yourself between the bottom of the top frame and the bottom of the bottom frame.

How did the multiple bones in his neck get broken?

Even with a sizable drop from a gibbet on a thin rope, victims have been known to not break bones and slowly die of asphyxiation.

They really should all volunteer, for the Advancement of Science!

There are so many factors to this that easily lead any person to consider a conspiracy. Maybe that is what "they" want us to think as their ruse. Perhaps if too many rational people start to think, "Oh, this is silly. It isn't the movies or TV or Alex Jones" than we will dismiss it as suicide after all. Almost like there is "too much" evidence so it all ends up seeming like a bad movie.

That make hanging oneself nearly impossible. Sheets are thin enough to not be able to handle heavier weights.

I am of the opinion that Epstein was murdered. It takes powerful hand grips to break bones in the neck during strangulation.

oneself from. I doubt many jails have anything within the cell an inmate could attach something to to hang themselves with.

That said, all things being equal, a low ceiling would more easily facilitate a hanging due to the fact that one could more likely reach it to attach something to.

Even a low ceiling is always going to be higher than 99.9% of people are tall ...

IMO this should cost Barr his job. He knew the prisons had staffing problems, and he knew Epstein would be high profile, and it's his job to know that if anything happened to Epstein it would further erode public confidence. They need to Benghazi the shit outta Barr in hearings.

nt

Did we start believing what Barrs justice dept tells us?
Anything could have happened to Epstein.
I put nothing past anyone.

He reportedly at least one of his victims that he had to have sex at least three times a day.

That takes a lot of force...

Just sayin'

Let's hope we get an honest investigation WITHOUT Barr involvement.