Doesn’t make sense but Foil Nazis dies.

Last edited Tue Aug 20, 2019, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Because who cares about winning elections right? But between me and you I do like m the term MofoNazis

Let Trump attack them then.

Some people is this thread are trying too hard to be cute with language, Antifacists is hard-hitting, 100% accurate, and leaves no doubt about who the bad people are.

But think you and I are of a different time to the young people on the frontline. They're putting their bodies on the line; they can call themselves whatever they like, far as I'm concerned.

Designed to prevent us from defining them, and defining us. Makes it sound like something new. Nope!

Thanks.

It's never seemed to me like a super-organised movement; one with names, rules or titles unlike the right wingers. Interesting to know that the name was manipulated.

'Fascist', not 'facist'. This is not about faces.

Being against fascism is common sense and decency.

Most people in this country are against fascism. It’s the normal default position.

The problem is that there’s a strange, shadowy few people who for whatever reason like to wear masks and break things while other more responsible people protest fascism responsibly.

And it seems like a blatant attempt to infiltrate and delegitimize what should be a common sense position.

And a few people like to defend this by absurdly comparing them to soldiers during World War 2.

the black block/anarchists rioters dressed in black. The media tends to simplify the term to include both.

were socialist/communist -- so Antifa fits.

While the first anti-fascist groups developed in the 1920s in opposition to Mussolini's dictatorship, it was the 1932 German group Antifaschistische Aktion that first used the term within its name. The shortened "Antifa" version developed as an English reconfiguration (Can you pronounce the original if you don't know German?)

Anyway, that said, I totally agree that it's high-time we move on to using the full term "anti-fascist" for a few reasons:

1.) "Antifa" suggests an actual group exists today. As I just explained in another post, it is not and never has been an "organization" in the U.S. Rather, it is an idea, a movement, if you will, whose meaning has always been in flux, continually redefined by successive generations. Today's youth who identify with the anti-fascist movement stand for two primary principles: "anti-white-supremacy" and "anti-racism." Over the past two years, a third principle has increasingly been touted that returns the movement to its roots: "anti-totalitarianism." (Gee, I wonder where our youth ever got the idea that this was something else they needed to stand against?) So, lest you're still stuck in time thinking "antifa" means "anarchy," all I can say is the 1980s are calling you and they want their definition back.

2.) The far right (white supremacists, white nationalists, neo-Nazis, militant militias, & the KKK) dread being called out as fascists, precisely because of the quite accurate historical parallels. To that end, they continually tell their followers (and any media microphone they can get in front of) that "antifa" stands for "anti-First Amendment." So, yeah, time to set the record straight and return the term to its full English translation: ANTI-FASCIST.

3.) In 2017, long before the Mueller Report, there was a news article (I'll find the reference for you if anyone is interested) that indicated the #1 Internet push across Russian servers was the following propaganda line: "Antifa is a terrorist organization." Sound familiar, folks? Come on, did anybody actually think the pResident-in-Grief tweeted something yesterday that his Russian masters didn't first repeatedly tell him to say?

So, what does this tell you? Clearly, Russia perceives a growing ANTI-FASCIST movement in America, which is itself very cyber-savvy, as the #1 threat to it's own malicious goals.

Time for Dems to take the narrative on this and run, run, run with it.

resistance called themselves in Europe. The modern movement grew out of the resistance during WWII. Think of the French Resistance, or Sophie Scholl and the White Rose. In France there are museums and placards on buildings honoring the sacrifices of the resistance. The resistance was a loose coalition of socialists, communists, and anarchists, and as such were easily vilified as “terrorists”. So when Trump calls antifa domestic terrorists (two weeks after a fascist nut job citing Trump’s rhetoric killed 22 people in El Paso — for which he’s being tried as a terrorist) my response is “yeah, that’s what Hitler said”.

I agree that non-violence is the best tactic, but from what I have read most of the violence is started by the fascist boneheads. The reason they converge on liberal cities like Portland or Berkeley is to provoke violence (a time honored strategy by fascist movements by the way — google The Battle of Cable Street). The best strategy is to outnumber them and remain peaceful, but unfortunately there is always a fringe element of black bloc anarchist types who tag along to break windows. Some might be fascists or even cops who infiltrate and initiate violence in order to discredit the movement. Police departments and the FBI have a history of this.

All this is not to say that antifa is all pure and virtuous, but rejecting the tradition of resistance and the term “antifa” is also part of the right’s agenda. I suggest instead of calling the enemy “White Nationalists” or “White Supremicists”, which are terms they probably prefer, we call them “fascist zombies” or “fascist boneheads”.

The only thing I disagree with is the statement that the right wants to get rid of the term "antifa." They most certainly do not want the term gone, for a few reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Russia has made a heavy investment in making the term synonymous with "domestic terrorist organization" (see point 3 in my post above). Indeed, the entire purpose of the Portland "rally" yesterday (as professed by leaders of Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer) was to push the envelope in getting tRump to officially designate "antifa" as a "domestic terrorist organization." In order for that to actually happen they desperately need to maintain the facade that it is an "organization," which it is not.

Part of what blows that house of cards down is when people understand that it is an anti-fascist movement comprised of disparate people (mostly young adults, similar to the anti-Vietnam War movement) who come together to oppose the actual domestic terrorists---the highly organized and heavily armed white extremists.

of the term “antifa”, but rather that they want to vilify it and get people to associate it with terrorism. You’re undoubtedly right that most Americans don’t know what it means. It’s pretty hard to vilify “anti-fascist”.

I agree. Don’t be lazy and pronounce the whole word if you care enough about it: be anti-fascist.

It’s not a clique. It’s an international movement against fascism. Antifa sounds like a clique, and people who like cliques like to be part of antifa. But antifascism has its roots in the anarchist community for good reason, we distrust cliques and unearned authority.

We should resist the corporate (fascist sympathizing) media trying to paint antifascists as a fringe group.

Every antifa knows antifa is short for antifascist.

Every descent human being is antifascist.

But not every antifascist knows they are antifa.

This is a problem. We should use words that can be best understood. Not words that mean something special to us, and something we don’t mean to the masses.

The capitalist media want a name to call people who fight back when they are attacked by fascism/racist capitalism so they can depict those willing to resist as the problem.

This is typical when oppressed groups such as female or non-white folks respond to attacks: the racist or sexist attack is ignored and the natural human response of the victim is latched onto as if they are deserving of the abuse because they are “combative”.

PandoraAwakened was right that antifa came as a lazy English language rendition of the German name.

Arguably the word antifa was invented by the western capitalist media attempt to depict those resisting fascism as a violent threat:

The first known printed use of “antifa” is US’s AP and our dictionary notes: “If a society by that exact name did indeed exist, however, evidence of it is not easily found in the historical record, either in English or in its German translation.”-https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-antifa

From Merriam-Webster.com:

“First Known Use of antifa 1946 , in the meaning defined at sense 1

History and Etymology for antifa
borrowed from German Antifa, short for antifaschistisch "anti-fascist," in Antifaschistische Aktion (multiparty front initiated by the German Communist Party in 1932 to counter Nazism) and in other collocations”

”Antifa is a word that originated in the time before World War II, but has enjoyed a surge in usage today. We will examine the definition of Antifa, where it came from and some examples of its use in sentences.”

We just wake up one day and they are there??

The Oxford English Dictionary's definition and examples of early use in print in English:

Please see my post above about the origin of the term: Don’t be lazy about being antifascist

Also, see the dictionary’s notes:

“In an Associated Press article with a dateline of Dresden, Germany, October 19, 1930, we find what is currently our earliest evidence of antifa in English:

“Military practice by the local Communist Antifascist Society was broken up last night by police near the suburb of Heidemuehle. All members of the society, which is known as Antifa, were arrested and police are investigating purposes of the military practice, which they had suspected for a long time was taking place.
— The Daily Boston Globe, 20 Oct. 1930

“In this example, antifa refers to a particular anti-fascist group, one by the name of the "Communist Antifascist Society." If a society by that exact name did indeed exist, however, evidence of it is not easily found in the historical record, either in English or in its German translation. And the term antifa is most often traced to a German anti-fascist group of a different name: Antifaschistische Aktion. Antifa was (and is) a nickname for that group, as well as other anti-fascist groups, but the word antifa appears to predate the organization itself: the 1930 evidence of the term above is almost two years before the apparent June 1932 date of that group's first meeting.

“Antifa continued to be used during and after World War II, but in 20th century English language publications it was a distant competitor to anti-fascist.”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-antifa

That's where they're going to go next with this.

Use the entire phrase "anti-fascist" to foil the attempted re-frame

on their "antifa as anti-First" campaign. It actually took them over a year to realize that Russia was concurrently running a much more strategic "antifa as domestic terrorist" campaign, which they then got on board with as well. Hence, the changing of the names of their rallies (like yesterday's in Portland) to "End Domestic Terrorism." This actually shows up in meeting minutes found in the homes of some white extremists arrested over the past year.

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2019, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Why give away the power of everyone’s grandad’s and great grandpa’s life story and sacrifice to safe the world?

Antifa is powerless made up word.

And using it doesn't give away the power of everyone's grandad. That's ridiculous.

and get rid of the assholes who destroy the neighborhoods & business'

I will laugh at them in public. On my porch across the threshold is another matter. Republicans trolling for votes are included. My stance is reason number 1 I will not go door to door or pass out Democratic literature as I have done in the past.If you endorse Donald Trump or his enablers my response is you are brain dead. There are quite a few of the walking dead among us absent the rotting flesh.

Don't clutter the issue up with mussolini and franco, etc.

We know what they want to do, they want to be like hitler and put this goof in as a new fuhrer.

Being Antifa is being willing to do something about the bastards, today.
It's a very serious difference.

We are easy targets for sound bites and bumper sticker slogans.

Antifa fits well with Isis and Al-Qaeda. They all, due to our media exposure to them, sound ominous.

So when the average American hears Antifa, they probably tend to think more of the anarchy proponents, rather than anti-fascists.

And the right LOVES that.

Add to that the black hoods and covering of faces, the ominous overtones increase.

How it was used in the 1930s gets lost. We should just say anti-fascists.

edit to add (per my partner, who isn't yet a member of DU ):

If Antifa wanted to be taken seriously, they would lose the masks, which denotes cowardice (like the KKK of old), act like grownups and become a legitimate organization, like NAACP, and work to educate the public about what right wing fascists are really doing.

They didn't just turn up after 2016 election. You should email them and complain to see what they say!

I am 100% anti-fascist, and I'll say it loudly whenever someone complains about antifa.

And another thing, LA and NYC, use the correct names.

but I'm not going to don a facemark and start violence.

Antifa now has a very specific meaning. And not all anti-fascists are antifa.