law abiding Americans are being mowed down by them.

banning future sales of AR15's. I'm taking a shortcut to the rational conclusion.

Call me the optimist, I still believe that "change is on the way". Until then, I refuse to surrender my humanity to those who behave like greedy bastards (gun manufacturers).

AR-10s, they are a third less dangerous than AR-15s.

I was at the range this weekend, with a LEO that had 2 AR platform rifles, and 3 AR platform pistols.
Rifles were .224 Valkyrie and 6.5 Grendel
Pistols were 5.56, .300 ACC, and 9x19 MM

I know, even as I type this i am , but it's been a slow day. So, what ammo being banned would make everything tickety-boo?

Yes, it would be throwing that part of Heller back in the faces but they asked for it, it was the dumbest part of a decision I've read in this century.

.223, .300 ACC and 9x19 is in common use, and has been for decades. Well, maybe not the .300, it's only been around for about a decade.......

that's what we trying to tell you. You say "this rifle round is legal" and someone will make an AR 15 that can use it.

If you can imagine it, you can build it.

A new barrel in a non-military caliber like the .224 Valkarie is cheap, easy to install, will feed from an AR magazine, and ironically is MORE powerful than the military 5.56mm.

An ammo ban does nothing.

The USSC in Heller specifically stated the right to own firearms is for defense of oneself in their home. And semiautomatic handguns are the most commonly used firearms for such a purpose.

... common use and it can EASILY screw either side if one side can show that 70% of the AR-15 are in the hands of 3% of the population for instance.

Currently the pistol grip SA rifle isn't a big part of what's out there as defense weapons, handguns are.

Only 403 rifles where used in murders vs 7,032 handguns.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

I don't think so.

The courts have ruled that banning ammo is no different than banning guns directly.

You can get an AR platform rifle in everything from .17 rimfire to 9mm to .300 Magnum to shotgun shell.

A ban on ammo used by semi-auto rifles would ban every caliber used by all other guns. That wouldn't stand a chance in court.

.... rest can come in.

Ban that ammo ... folk will live.

Second only to the .22LR in volume sold annually.

But sure, ban the .223 round. Within a month you'll see every AR chambered in .20, .21, .23, .24 cal, etc.

Yet... so many places where it's illegal to get one.

That's.......odd.

They were legal under the 1994 AWB.

Bans target features not responsible for the gun's function. The only way to ban them is to ban all semiautomaticc firearms, which is pretty unlikely.

And even then, they already make pump-action AR-15's!

A ban on high-capacity magazines is more doable and accomplishes most of the same goals.

By "altered heavily", you mean the $10 plastic fin they put on the grip? Google what a California-legal AR looks like; you'll be surprised how little they differ.

I'm curious: why do you think the pistol grip matters so much to how a rifle functions? It really doesn't.

A mass shooter will have to grip the mass kill device different with the plastic fin, I've seen them ... effective enough.

My ability to use the gun to hit targets was unaffected. After a few rounds you figure out how to place your thumb higher up and the rifle stabilizes.

It's nothing more than cosmetic.

... Kill device

No civilian needs an AR-15. If they think they do, they are already proving themselves too insane to own a firearm.

I will never get this obsession with guns. I honestly think all of these people are mentally deranged. It is a sickness.

It is this attitude that prevents a sane conversation from taking place between the sides who want to control them more and those who want less restrictions.

Surely you understand that an AR-15 is not strictly a military weapon. They can be configured as single shots, bolt action, semi-auto or machinegun. They are suitable to a range of recreational activities from target shooting to hunting small and large game due to the variety of calibers they can be chambered in.

If I decide that a single shot AR-15 is what I need for whatever activity I participate in, it seems that you have already judged me to be insane, obsessed and mentally deranged. Most states (as far as I know) require limited magazine capacity for hunting game animals, so it is unlikely that you will see anyone hunting deer with a 458 caliber AR-15 and a drum mag. Their 458 mag will probably hold 2-5 rounds.

No one needs to own an AR-15 to understand how versatile they are as this info is readily available on the internet. The judgements you are making are no way to begin or participate in a discussion on the merits of gun control.

If you ban AR15s, you will see: New! Improved! XAR15000s! Now with double the magazine, double the rate of fire! (Auto conversion spring not available from manufacturer. See local hardware store).

Ban the rate at which a thing can deliver fatal impacts. Limit the number of projectiles or energy beams or baseballs or horse carcasses it can deliver before reloading.

They only allow 5-round magazines though.

A total ban like 1994 would be nice. But the NRA has too much control over congress. The gun needs to be neutered. A gun is a gun is a gun. What it looks like does not matter. It’s what it can do that matters. The high velocity ammo it shoots needs to be banned. They can certainly make a less powerful ammo. Large capacity ammo containers across the board for all guns need to be banned.

We are never going get rid of guns but dropping this type of gun down to what a handgun can do takes away the “infringement” argument the right so effectively uses against actual gun reform by framing it as if a ban on this type means a total ban on all guns which is simply not true.

The rifle used at Sandy Hook was legal during the Federal AWB. It was legal under CT's more stringent AWB.

Like I said it really does not matter what the weapon looks like its what it can do.

What do you consider high velocity? Surely you understand that there are also objections to subsonic ammo because it can be more covert? There is not going to be any "acceptable ammo" out there if we still allow the hunting of game animals for example.

"What a handgun can do"? What handguns do is that they are involved in more mass shootings than rifles and shotguns put together.

Ban them, even the possession. Give them one year to turn them in. However, when they are turned in, we pay them triple the amount that they payed for the assault rifle. This way you give in to both sides, and make them feel that we're really not out to get anyone.

Anyone crying about the cost should be sent the invoices for the funeral services of the victims as a reminder of what the outlay to buy back these murder weapons is offsetting. If someone really needs to fire one of these off, there should be licensed (and heavily regulated, just like the Second Amendment says) shooting ranges for him to get his jollies. The weapon is checked out, its use closely monitored, then checked back in.

You have to make them want to turn them in,and fear of prosecution won't do it as they've ignored registration laws (and penalties) in various states.

Greed however will work for most. Give them a choice between keeping their 10 ARs and a new car, that car will be very tempting. Make it $2500 per assault rifle, $50 per magazine, and $1 per bullet and you'll have rednecks turning it all in to pay off their mortgage.

But within a year every semi-auto AR will be replaced with a pump-action AR, especially if you're throwing a couple grand at each gun owner turning in their old gun.

Just ban high-capacity magazines and address the problem at the source.

for their lethal investment gone bad.

As an alternative, I’d allow them to modify the rifle with a fixed magazine of 3 or 5 rounds. They can hang it on the wall like porn.

If a person wants a firearm, then they want a firearm. Money is not a substitute. Even if the gun owner is compensated with money, they know you're still out to get their guns. No one is that foolish.

1: Universal red flag laws

2: Universal background checks

3: Mandatory ATF investigations of every failed background check (it's a felony to lie on the background check to try to get a gun). Currently those failing the checks are never prosecuted, allowing them to walk free and buy a gun on the street instead.

3a: Significant new funding for the ATF to facilitate these investigations.

4: High-capacity magazine bans. Canada allows 5, New York 7, California 10, Colorado 15. Take your pick. All magazines turned in within 1 year get $50/magazine. After that, it becomes a felony to possess one. This circumvents the messy issue of trying to ban semiautomic firearms by addressing the root cause of their lethality: high magazine capacity. You can fire a pump-action or lever action as fast as a semi-auto, but high-capacity magazines in semi-autos allow for far fewer reloads.

All would stand up in court, all are readily applicable, and all are politically feasible even among most gun owners.

That's it. Period.

Make that one offense that you can’t plea bargain away.
If it’s across the board, it can’t become a racial thing. If you commit a crime using a gun, you get X amount of time added to your sentence. No plea bargain!

I also think the magazine capacity is the number one thing to at least lower the fatality count. I am not smart enough to say what that capacity is though.

You don't need those to hunt deer, Cletus.

Do you understand that a repeating firearm is typically defined as a single barreled gun with a box/tube magazine and a lever or bolt to load a fresh round and extract a fired case? Your ban would affect all guns that are not single shot including relics like the 1894 Winchester and 30-40 Krag.

I don't give a fuck about some redneck's krag.

What kind of traction do you think you'll get if you just say "ban them all"? It isn't just rednecks that own guns. Check out a gun range parking lot someday. You might find more change and rainbow stickers than confederate flags on the trucks/cars.

We need to get rid of all of them. Give the gun nutters a year to turn them in.

Surely you understand that if AR-15's are banned, then the market will shift to something else. Do you actually want to ban anything that is gas, blowback or recoil operated? Anything with a magazine?

The list includes two shootings that did not involve AR-15's. The Orlando night club shooting involved a Sig MCX and the Umpqua Community College victims were killed with handguns.

Handguns are used much more often than rifles and shotguns put together. I'm not sure why the rifles get so much more mass media attention than handguns. Perhaps the handguns are more related to gang violence?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/