A sign it's not going to stop anyone and I defy anyone who proposes they are going to attempt to block anyone who is armed. Give me a break.. .

Walmart and Kroger are now asking patrons NOT to bring guns into their stores. They are going to phase this into policy nationwide. So, TWO of the largest retailers in the nation are now making the case.

Try to keep up.

Their policy still expressly allows concealed carry

in many restaurants, especially corporate ones, the server has to pay the tab of any customer or table who leaves without paying.

That practice is illegal.

At least half the restaurants I've worked at in over 20 years in the restaurant business.
"You should have held a credit/debit card before running a tab" is the loophole (if there actually is a law against it, which I have never heard of...at least not in VA or MD).

At one place we posted unpaid tabs on the wall, with the customer's name written in 2" tall Sharpie letters, to shame them into paying up- and so the other servers could collect and hold the money for their shafted coworker. At one point I had over $400 of tabs hanging up there.

You doubled down here and said nothing. Name them.

because I'm not listing my work history on a public forum: Ruby Tuesday and Hard Times Cafe. Pretty sure Cracker Barrel, too, but I only worked there for a month or two, years ago, so am not 100% sure on that one. Corporate restaurants suck to work for (big surprise, right?) so I've mostly avoided them. Better money to be made in privately owned, also.

It's a widespread practice in the industry. Ask any server or bartender.

YOU, the server, were responsible for the tab of those that ‘dine and dash’ it is a ludicrous policy.

Leaving without paying makes you an asshole. Period.

I've worked in 4 restaurants and every one made the server pay. Some discounted it (so if the bill was $100, they made you pay $50), but everyone made them pay something. It's not Walmart where the employees don't have to worry about walkouts.

So maybe it is illegal, but they still do it. And the poor server pays.

Last edited Tue Sep 3, 2019, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

and federal law only cares if you are making the equivalent of minimum wage per hour. As long as paying the tab doesn't dip you under min. wage, it's legal. Of course, that's probably handled like very slow days when you only make $20 on a six hour shift. Your employer is supposed to pay you more per hour so you make min. wage for every hour worked that day. Instead, they average it out over the week. I've never known anyone who has gotten the extra hourly compensation after making only a few bucks on a shift. Anyhoo, that's federal.

A few states have laws against making servers pay for walkouts.Even so, there are easily exploited loopholes for the employer: "You went to the restroom for three minutes?!? You shoulda been watching your table! That's negligence on your part, pay up or be fired." And "You should have gotten a credit card from the customer before starting a tab, that's on you, not us." Which is reasonable for bar tabs, but I heard that one at Hard Times about a table of dine and dashers who ate a full meal at a table in the freaking dining room. They literally ran out the door.

Including waiting tables. Of the several employers I work for I only had one that tried to pull that crap. I had a table walk out and they told me I would have to pay the tab. I told them to reach in my pockets and take the cash. Yes, it is illegal.

......as you righteously screw over the servers who waited on you.

to comprehend, let alone address.

How did we go from your post to dine and dash wankers ?

The OP was about guns in restaurants, NOT about eating and not paying.

Go back and read the OP instead of just knee-jerking a response.

You asked how did we go from that to the dine and dash reply. My reply was to point out that topics get high jacked for not cool reasons ALL THE TIME. I kind of liked reading your posts but now I will be sure to avoid you.

I think we misread each other. I thought you were accusing me of knowing something and being a wanker. I honestly didn't understand your post.

Now, I get it.

Yes, topics do get high-jacked and mutated into things not intended by the original post. Sometimes I want to ask people if we need to hose them down.

I just wasn't following your logic and now I look like a wanker !

I do enjoy your posts!

what with keeping up with trumpie and boris, the Bobbsie twats.

made me a lot of money this weekend so Haggis is A OK by me!

"I will exit loudly and without paying since you did not provide the gun-free dining experience you promised."

That's how.

"I will exit loudly and without paying since you did not provide the gun-free dining experience you promised."

afraid every time I see one that it's someone who is in the mood to kill more than the last shooter.

But, maybe that’s because I pay so little attention to other people other than my friends or family..

mentally ill. They suffer from paranoia. Also they suffer from fantasy derangement system. They fantasize how they will need to use their gun. In their fantasy they are the good guy with a gun.

They are dangerous to those around them.

If you are in a space with no guns you are safer than if guns are around.

That aint my speed

I dont hate guns that much to screw someone over

then, after I've begun my meal, he says "Surprise! Didn't really mean it!" He has clearly breached our agreement, but you think I should pay for food I would never have ordered but for his lie?

Wow.

I pay my bills

Thats my speed

Wow, huh?

Even if I've had a bad experience. As several other posters have pointed out, chances are the person you're sticking with that tab is the poor server. Additionally, if I have an issue that I feel needs to be taken up with a manger .. that also occurs in a quiet, unobtrusive and respectful manner. Not at volume, disturbing the remaining staff and patrons. I guess that's just my deal. Agree with the OPs overall theme and sentiment, but the "I'm not payin'" part doesn't fly with me.

i.e. don't shop or eat at businesses where the patron's safety is not a priority?

The owners probably don't know that someone is ignoring the signs and carrying a weapon. It's not a damn conspiracy.

Pay your bill. Tell the owners/managers what your problem is. Never go back again if you don't like the response. (And tip the waitstaff bc they aren't responsible at all for the rules of a place.)

I'm thankful I don't have to think or worry about this at all in NYC.

I have seen signs on doors at bars in Louisiana and Mississippi saying to leave firearms outside. I think in any drinking establishment, it should be uniformly illegal to bring in firearms. Unless you're law enforcement.

There were always certain customers who would complain about anything they could find. Usually it was because the food was too hot/cold but it could be a complaint about cleanliness, as in food dropped by a child wasn't immediately swept up, to the condiments were put on the cheeseburger in the wrong order.

These people tended to loudly voice their complaints making as big of a scene as possible and insisting their meal, and any companions, be reduced or given free.

As a manager I would always personally handle these customers, politely apologize for any inconvenience and direct them to other nearby restaurants for their future dining.

I would discount meals of other patrons who had their enjoyment ruined by the boorish behavior. Many of them became regular customers. If these people ever had an issue they brought to my attention it would be immediately corrected and I would compensate them in some way for their courtesy.

Well Said!

I agreed with you up until that point, a shame because you were on a roll.

expected to pay or face arrest? Bring it, Mr. Owner. Do you want a scene? I don't mind a bit.

If you ate you should pay, just never come back. The cops always sided with the owners in all of the restaurants where I worked at. One customer even said "The food sucked" to the cop. The cop said "Too bad, you ate it. Pay or come with me." He paid.

Now, if you didn't get served your food yet, I agree, just walk out. If you got served just an appetizer so far, than just pay for that.

Making a scene won't accomplish much. The servers will stick together and the other customers will all root for it to end ASAP so they can eat in peace. You're way better than that. Just pay and tell the owner his business sucks. Most importantly, please leave the server a tip.

i agree ... i don't want to be a collateral damage victim any more the the fine patrons that visit our establishment

✌🏼

FFS, pay attention.

"I will exit loudly and without paying since you did not provide the gun-free dining experience you promised."

Somehow I must have totally misunderstood that saying one would "exit loudly and without paying" doesn't really mean leaving without paying. OK

Ffs pay attention.

You're right in that Some Body wasn't paying attention.

You just don't understand who it was.

I really don't approve of people accepting services then refusing to pay, that makes my blood boil.

That makes MY blood boil.

Once you pay, you have accepted being lied to. They put "bad reviews" on a roll with the Charmin.

Cops are ok, they have to grab a meal, but they also have a reason to carry their guns. But some non law enforcement yahoo with a gun in a public place cause me to never go back to that place and warn other people.

We will leave a restaurant if we see a patron with a gun, drive down the street, and call in with our credit card number, including a tip for the server.

Sorry if this bothers folks here- but, I don't feel like there's time anymore to analyze a situation. If we don't feel safe, we leave. Immediately.

I would not take it out on the server, but I would leave the restaurant the moment I saw someone who was open carrying. The fact that you think you need a gun with you in a restaurant or a grocery store or any other public place already tells me that you are not right in the head. You are not someone I would want to be around.

I don't eat with people wearing guns.

It would never happen on a wide scale basis. Any why single out restaurants?

They were from a private security company, refilling shopping centre cash machines.
She would do the refill, he would have his back to the machine as lookout.

Legitimate carriers of hand guns on legitimate business. But it still sends shivers down my spine.
Don't make eye contact, go out of your way to avoid going near them.

At least when they left, I felt safe, the rest of the shoppers weren't likely to carry concealed weapons.
It's like that in Australia. Pity you can't assume that in any American shopping centre.

And I see guys with giant shotguns and automatics on their backs, I'm immediately walking out and my next calls will be to the manager and the local police. Yes this shit is not funny to me. I don't want to get shot. Period.

I'll still press charges for theft.

Win win for everyone.

...in open carry states (I Live in KY and, if you can forget Mitch and Rand -- which I do to keep my sanity - it is an AMAZING place to live) - you see folks with sidearms, but it is not a common sight.

I have never once seen anyone wandering around with a long gun of any sort. Simply pistols in a holster.

I own several handguns and a shotgun and am not too concerned about people with sidearms.

NOW -- when I lived in Montgomery County, MD -- I would have been freaked out by anyone with a gun

EDITED: However, if an establishment DOES have a sign and refuses to throw people out with a firearm -- you do have a case for complaint and even I would have an issue with that.

To prove otherwise, be sure to record the encounter and post your mugshot and case number.

I live in, the primary reason it hasn't happened yet is that we don't eat out very often.

I understand that it is easy to post what one would do in a given situation and it is easy to post what one has done. I am sure some wildly exaggerate their actions or predict their own bravery knowing they can never be called on it. Apparently, you put me in this category.

I'm fine with people making up their own minds as to whether I walk the walk or just talk the talk.

Has one of the highest reported rates of gun ownership in the country. Often eat out, and have never observed the situation you describe.

Same lesson learned as in yours, but this way, I'm not rationalizing theft, nor am I making wait staff pay for my decisions or those of some idiot urban cowboy who potentially fears being attacked by a side dish of guacamole.

mentioned above, if I order surf and turf and am served spaghetti, am I a thief if I refuse to pay?

Do you eat the spaghetti before pointing out you ordered something else?

And if I were the manager probably given you at least half off.

Now if you did eat the spaghetti then refuse to pay because you didn't order it, I would say that is theft

I pay for services rendered. You justify doing otherwise, and are of course, free to call yourself whatever helps you feel self-righteous at the expense of workers and their labor.

"am I a thief if I refuse to pay?"
I dunno... maybe just a guy who simply can't spell very well.

a discussion board; and 3.) which word in your quoted clause do you believe is mis-spelled?

If you got food pay the bill.

broke that promise. No bill is justified.

I don’t want to be around guns either (which is why I don’t live in West Bumfuckistan, but that’s another conversation), but if some yahoo violates a rule you aren’t suddenly entitled to a free meal. I’m quite certain you’d cram every gobbet of food down your gullet with both hands prior to storming off in a huff, of course.

If there’s a no bare feet policy and someone’s toddler slips off his Keds do you get a free meal from that as well? Maybe just thirty percent off the top?

Cheap theatrics for the perpetually childish.

in many places you would be charged with theft or defrauding an innkeeper. Sorry to say that your dine and dash defense wouldn't hold up in court.

loaded grocery cart! It’s my right because I was promised a gun-free shopping experience!

I get your point though. If the owner does have the sign, then they should enforce it. If there's not a sign and you don't like that, then of course you should eat elsewhere.

:rolleyes"

display of the weapon is often NOT accidental. The armed person isn't satisfied with "concealed" carry because he wants the world to know he is a badass and you'd better not get in his way. These people are ignorant cowardly punks and deserve to be told that to their face.

Roll your eyes all you like. You clearly don't understand the Bubbas I meet every day in my community.

But 'flashing' can get one a brandishing charge, so it's at least strongly advised against, regardless of how Hollywood depicts it.

from leaving by any means necessary?

him in any way? I face that possibility each time I wear my "IMPEACH TRUMP" tee shirt go the mall---or a tea party gathering.

are caught up on the payment details don't seem to understand how quickly a gunman can take out a room full of people. You may not have time to pay. Always follow your instincts. That's what saved a lot of people in the WTC on 911. Goofball Ghouliani told people to stay at their desks.

the method suggested by the OP to address the issue is at best questionable when other paths are easily open to do so.

I realize 90% of mass shootings (or any shooting, for that matter) are avoided because at the last minute the shooter sees the "No guns" sign and changes his mind on committing murder, but what else?

For what it's worth, basically the entire Washington DC metro is a "No firearms allowed" area, with the exact signs you're talking about prominently displayed everywhere, and it has one of the highest gun death rates in the entire country...

Signs are a joke and might be the only gun death solution more worthless than thoughts and prayers.

problem. If something only prevents a few accidental discharges and a few shootings of snowflakes, fuhgeddaboudit!

Until someone comes up with a remedy that stops 100% of the needless gun deaths, we should just---do nothing.

apparent to any thinking person that no response to it is necessary or expected. Yours was such a question

... I've never seen any restaurant here with such a sign... and I certainly don't expect to.

Putting it on the shoulders of small businesses and servers is unfair.

gets to the point where it is compelled to do its job?

A grassroots movement is needed. However, restaurants neither sell guns nor ammo. Drafting them into this movement comes at great cost to them. We should start with boycott of stores that sell guns and ammo.

Because eventually someone will want to test it.....

Imagine a confrontation playing out in front of a full restaurant...

Surely good for business.