General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's really past bad with my family & friends Trumpers.
Like I bet many of you have had to do over the past 3 years, Ive had to ask myself some really hard questions lately.
When is enuf enuf?
If these (supposedly) good people in my life continue to support this man who is destroying our country, how do I remain in the SAME type of relationship with them.
Ive already canceled any social media to avoid their vile.
Ive dropped those relationships that were just casual.
And, now, Im thinking about dropping some REALLY important relationships.
With most, (as Im sure youve probably done) we have always just agreed to disagree and just never discuss politics.
But more and more it seemed to seep into everyday life with snide remarks with them or their friends, neighbors, and acquaintances about how great Trump is in owning the libs.
I am not a confrontational person.
I often go along to get along.
But, if I hear one more Trumper say.... who cares about the stupid shit he says, my 401K looks great.
First, why does he get credit for that?
Second, why does Obama/Biden get no credit for saving us from a likely depression?
Third, no matter how good the stock market is doing right now, what goes up usually comes down.
Fourth, is having another car 🚘 or a boat 🚣?♀️ really worth the damage that this evil corrupt person is doing to our country and to our planet?
Fifth, have these people been so outFauxed and Rush Limbotomized that they really believe the country would be better off with four more years of him than a radical, tree hugging, baby killing, bed wetting liberal? (That was rhetorical- of course they do).
The really heart ❤️ crushing part is that these are people that I love and that love me.
How do I keep them in my life and still keep my self respect and semi sanity?
This is what I hate most about Trump. He has impacted my actual life so negatively.
Or, make that, I have ALLOWED him to do so.
Any suggestions from those that understand where Im coming from?
samnsara
(17,622 posts)...so there goes our family, since both our parents died during the last year. Once they passed we sisters separated forever...as we had no need to stay in touch.
I consider myself an only child now and Im moving to the other side of the state to Seattle where hubby's family and my only childs family lives. I will leave behind friends but really with social media we are never that far apart but I will be surrounded by supportive and like minded people and in my senior years thats the most important. I'm way past trying to repair broken or toxic relationships. Lifes too short for that.
Good luck....
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)In my case, these are by and large very good relationships.
Except Trump.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)This means that deep down, there is something important missing in their development as human beings.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)My sister in California wants nothing to do with me. It is over a sibling of ours. I am dead to her and she to me. Her 40th Wedding Anniversary is tomorrow and I did not send her a card. Nor will she take any calls from me.
Nor have I heard from my Brother in almost a year. I do not know if he is alive or dead. And even if my sister knows, she will not tell me of it. Yet, I pray for him every day because no one has been able to reach him for his phone has been disconnected all that time as well. Sad.
brutus smith
(685 posts)yardwork
(61,622 posts)Do you mean the Republicans who control the Senate?
If you mean the House of Representatives, which just regained a slim Democratic majority, they're not sitting idle. They are holding hearings every day. Maybe you didn't know that?
brutus smith
(685 posts)Or the ones where they don't show up, or the ones where they lie.
madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)believe politics should be permitted to destroy family relationships. Especially when you say that you love these people. It isnt like we are living in nazi Germany. I could definitely see ending relationships in that situation, but it isnt like anyone is supporting genocide. They have basically become obnoxious. So I would just do what you do with obnoxious people, ignore them.
Dont give Trump the power to control your personal life.
Maybe some of your relatives one day will see how wrong theyve been.
Friends may be different, but sometimes friends are just like family.
It might be easy for me to say because everyone around me hates Trump with the heat of ten thousand Suns. The only Trump supporter Im related to is my nephew, but he lives in Florida and I never see him. (His parents btw are rather heartbroken about their sons politics, but what can they do!)
Sending peaceful thoughts.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)By the way, I live in Florida...probably near your nephew as luck would have it. Ha.
Theres a guy down the street that flies a HUGE Trump flag off of his front porch that I have to pass several times of day.
That your nephew? Im in Tampa Bay Area.
madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)My nephew lives in Miami. I dont get how he ended up a republican.
Hugin
(33,150 posts)I'm not really sure what precipitated the change in attitude. But, one day, *poof*, all of the lighted yards signs and flags were gone and it's been over a month since I saw a Trumpanzee wearing a MAGAt hat. These deplorable fish swim in different circles from me. So, I don't know what particular signal was issued.
Maybe, it was the USS McCain incident. There are many vets here and they weren't too happy about that episode from Old Yeller. And, I have seen more veteran service ball caps.
Dunno. It is a breath of fresh air, tho.
Cha
(297,275 posts)I'm on Kauai and after the "election" there was a trump banner, hanging between 2 palm trees, on a golf course, that I saw from the bus. But it didn't stay up long..
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Oh ! Really !!!!!!!
Boomer
(4,168 posts)Our situation is exactly analogous to the early rise of Hitler's party: Duly elected officials who nudged the country toward that era's version of right-wing extremism, bit by bit. They didn't promote genocide at the start, and even when the death camps opened, most Germans were careful to avoid "knowing" about them. The truly horrific nature of Nazis wasn't fully revealed until the war was over, which is the excuse so many people gave for continuing to support Hitler in power for all those years. "We didn't know."
And this is dilemma of "good" people -- there is no clear line that a country crosses, where you're suddenly sure that you must break off with "the bad people." Instead of a line there is gradual almost imperceptible shift to gray, then the gray becomes slightly darker, and all the while you're thinking "If it goes any farther, THEN I will break things off" but you begin to lose sight of what true white looks like. And then suddenly we're all standing on ground that is black and we're shocked to realize how far we let things slide.
This is why family relationships with Trump supporters are so fraught. We can see the potential, the might-be of early fascism. Maybe it will never end up as bad as Germany, not OUR country. But it could, and if we want to be the kind of people who would have resisted Hitler's Nazism, when do we take a stand against people we know are on the wrong side of history in the making, the side that is growing darker by the day?
For people who are still struggling with this conflict, I'd recommend that you set 2020 as the dividing line. If this country repudiates not just Trump, but the GOP hold on the Senate, then we can afford to "agree to disagree" to keep peace in the family. But if the GOP persists and/or Trump wins the White House, then we're facing a fight for the soul of the country and we're losing. If that's not a time to start taking a stand against enablers of the new America, then I don't know when it would be.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)We need to stop him now. He will only escalate if we do nothing.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Hitler was not handsome, but he could shout, encourage hate until people turned on each other!
Do not say it could not happen her. Trump and his fellow haters are doing a pretty good job of turning people against each other.
I avoid Politics.
PatSeg
(47,482 posts)Most German people didn't either. It happened incrementally with things like deporting people and advocating violence against those they disagreed with or condoning the breakdown of institutions and democratic traditions.
My one remaining sibling is a Fox watcher and we've avoided anything political. So far, I've gotten no indication that she supports Trump, hopefully that was a bridge too far for her. She is basically a reasonable person who got brainwashed by Fox during the Bush and Obama years. I think the overt racism of the Trump following would be too offensive for her.
The difference between the Trump era and the Bush years, is Trump supporters are not part of a political party, they are part of a cult and that cult could bring down our country, destroy the planet, and possibly even bring about World War III. As such I can understand why some people cut ties with family and friends because of it. The consequences are bigger than relationships.
Midnight Writer
(21,768 posts)put'em against a wall, and shoot'em".
blue cat
(2,415 posts)Ive heard that a lot here in Texas.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)I think you hit the nail on the head there. This is your issue.
For me, i usually have no problem being on social media or with Trump supporting family as I've decided not to let their opinions control me.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)Maybe a vacation?
But Im retired and live in a vacation area?
Drugs, CBD oil?
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)I may not agree with them but I've also decided long ago not to let them control me and my emotions. I'm a free man.
You can also be free if you so choose.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)It's also personal. When your relatives talk abut "libtards" and how they're so glad that Trump is "owning the Libs", those are direct, and very hurtful, insults aimed at you.
Yes, there's a lot of family destruction happening in the US and it's not just those seeking asylum. My sister's son is a die-hard Trumper and I'm thankful she is not alive to see it. My late husband insisted that he be written out of our wills. I see him at the occasional family function when he comes over to Ontario and I cannot bear to discuss politics with him because it would just make me too, too angry.
So there you have it -- anger and despair leading to family breakups. That's the trump legacy.
mountain grammy
(26,622 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)That's what they said in the 1930s in Germany.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)This I whole heartedly(Spell) agree with.
But, freedom of speech only mean the government can not come down on someone for speech.
It has nothing to do with me being able to refuse service to someone who espouses racist bigotry, or punch somebody in the face, if I so choose. I may get arrested for punching someone, but NOT for violating their 'right to freedom of speech.'
Germany has specific laws about what kind of speech is illegal, and with good reason.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)Your comment:
"But, freedom of speech only mean the government can not come down on someone for speech. "
But we as citizens also support the rights of others.
Otherwise, it'd be okay for average citizens to denounce others whom we may not approve of for practicing their religion, attempting to vote, and so on.
Your comment:
"It has nothing to do with me being able to refuse service to someone who espouses racist bigotry..."
Are you okay with those bakers who refused to making wedding cakes for gay couples? I think there was an instance where a pharmacist refused to dispense morning after pills.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -- Indian philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti
onetexan
(13,041 posts)Who are trump-supporting if i cant stand it. For the most part they know im liberal and stay away from the comments, but once in a while they cant help but make fools of themselves.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)I have family who are Trump supporters but I don't have a close relationship with them anyway. We mostly never discuss politics. When it does come up, they never personally attack or insult me.
The OP may be experiencing different interactions than you or I experience from people in our lives. There's a point where communications become abusive. It is healthy to distance oneself from toxic people.
The larger issue is one of ethics. At what point do we as citizens take a stand and begin to shun people? In America we love to point at the Germans of the 1930s and shake our heads. But aren't we watching the same disintegration of democracy here? At what point do we stop going along to get along?
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)Here is what he said:
"The really heart ❤️ crushing part is that these are people that I love and that love me.
How do I keep them in my life and still keep my self respect and semi sanity?"
One really can't compare America today with Germany during the rise of Hitler. Germany was suffering from high unemployment during the Great Depression, hyper-inflation in the early 20's and had just recently lost a major war where millions of its citizens were killed or maimed for life. Germans were also dealing with living under a humiliating peace treaty. The Treaty of Versailles. We probably would never had heard of Hitler had the victorious Allies not been so gung-ho on exacting revenge on a defeated Germany.
Another interesting comment from the OP:
"This is what I hate most about Trump. He has impacted my actual life so negatively.
Or, make that, I have ALLOWED him to do so. "
Other then putting up with snide comments from family now and then, how exactly has Trump affected the OP's life so negatively? OP speaks in broad terms but doesn't provide specifics.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)One guest _____, he was a cop. Married rich. Wore a conspicuous trump tie.
Many guests were trumpers or leaned that way. Pol'tics went unmentioned, as 'requested' by the groom. Seemed at least relatively amiable.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)BigOleDummy
(2,270 posts)I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. My entire immediate family are chump supporters. We've done a fairly good job with politics being a forbidden subject between us. So far anyway, but as you said it has a way of creeping in usually via a snide remark about liberals. I've stopped taking these remarks with a grain of salt and replying in kind. Yes, bad blood has ensued on more than one occasion.
My Mother passed a week ago so we were all together for the first time in a long time for the memorial and even there it popped up much to my dismay. I DID let that little exchange slide due to where we were (church parking lot). But as I'm driving my brothers RV back to Arizona for him we DID end up having a halfway decent conversation about gun control (much to my surprise). Yeah, rabid NRAer spouting off the lies from Rush and Fox "news". After I challenged him to provide proof of his statements he couldn't and the conversation returned to actual facts and while I know I didn't change his mind I DO think I gave him a tiny bit of perspective from "our" side of that issue.
As an aside , during that conversation he reveled in many ways (not least by direct statement) that the opponent he fears the most for our chump in chief is Elizabeth Warren. As she's my preferred candidate I was overjoyed to hear this naturally lol.
As another aside, I'm totally ashamed to admit that walking out of that memorial service I had a thought
" at least that's one less trump voter". I feel terrible for having that thought but there it is. I hate trump and the entire gop for making our political process so radicalized.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)Croney
(4,661 posts)are not going to now. I'm still their loving parent/grandparent and we don't talk politics, but there are others just as close to me I can leave my money to, along with donations to my preferred charities and causes.
What're they going to do, yell at me? I won't hear them.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)MikeIsInProcess
(23 posts)Wow. Brilliant.
And to go next-level, if it were me I would leave an explanation in my will that says
1) politics is a reflection of character
2) I would not want to take the risk of my money ending up in the hands of any conservative/GOP organization.
Anyone who knows me would expect this.
tblue37
(65,393 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Croney
(4,661 posts)I combined crone and crony. Old woman + friend. So my user name looks like a misspelled word. I should have thought that through a little more.
Iris
(15,657 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)How about deliberately committing yourself to protecting your relationships, and the continuity of your family itself, while you wait for this to pass? And it will. Some day. Politically involved conservatives have been encouraged to become very bad versions of themselves, but with better leaders they can be much better. And quickly.
Maybe approach this coolly and intellectually since the old emotional relations are failing. If you understand them much better and also understand how they came to what you cannot respect, loving and being with them should be a lot happier business. And goodness knows there's no shortage of studies on what on earth is going on with them and why.
Here's a quick article I grabbed. I'm among those who believe Jonathan Haidt's book, The Righteous Mind, is flawed in some respects, but he became respectful of and sympathetic to conservatives when studying and knowing them better (before Trump), a good thing, and does a good job of helping people understand conservative reactions, thinking, views on morality. Even all our best versions are strikingly different in some ways, although very similar in most, and we really should understand each other better.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/calling-truce-political-wars/
Boomer
(4,168 posts)I "understand" why Germans in the 1930s and 40s supported Hitler, why they were moved emotionally by his rhetoric. I can understand the roots of Conservatism and the societal forces at play that influence large swaths of the country.
But understanding is not synonymous with approval. At some point you have to say "This is WRONG in my eyes" and take a stand. The American Civil war split families apart, it made people take a stand for or against the Union. Understanding why someone chose to support the South wasn't enough to stop (quite literally) the fighting.
I understand why my poor uneducated White nieces in East Texas are Evangelicals, homophobic, and why they support Trump. I even feel sympathy for the much harder life they've led than I did, the generational damage caused by father's neglect -- financial and emotional -- of my half-sister, their mother. But all the understanding in the world doesn't make it any easier to listen to their rants against Obama, their racist attitudes toward my Mexican heritage, their disapproval of my marriage to my partner of 30 years, or their rabid support for a man who is obviously unfit to be POTUS, who isn't even a decent human being.
For me, love can't be divorced from character. I haven't come close to mastering that "unconditional" part, where I can love someone who is not only opposed to my beliefs, but even to who I am. Cutting ties was easy under those circumstances. My sympathies to DUers who have stronger ties that aren't so easily cut.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)But, assumption that knowledge we don't have doesn't exist is not understanding.
How perverse that an era of an incredibly incredible explosion of knowledge is also an era of denial of knowledge and denial of expertise.
Go find out just some of what we've discovered about ourselves so far. It's not dangerous: developing understanding is the very antithesis of brainwashing ourselves into "unconditional love." And it's fascinating.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,480 posts)Very true and wise words.
progree
(10,908 posts)up just 4.1% since 1/26/2018, nearly 20 months ago, and that journey has been one with harrowing roller coaster ups and downs.
S&P 500 (much more representative of the U.S. stock market and what people own than the Dow 30)
2873 1/26/2018 close
2992 9/20/2019 close
+4.1%
and right now we're in an "up bump" phase in the Trump market cycles with yet another trade truce with China (to be followed yet again with another round of tariff increases, broken off negotiations, rinse and repeat)
The great "Trump" record up to 1/26/2018 (one year and 6 days since Inauguration Day) was of course, a continuation of the Obama boom, and before all the Trump trade war garbage started, and before the TCJA Trump Tax Cuts for the Corporados took effect.
tavernier
(12,391 posts)I dont think breaking even two years later constitutes a successful market. I would have been better off investing in marijuana.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)would be something else, like how he's packing the courts with unqualified judges who don't care about the Constitution, but only care about the political issues they've invented, like abortion, or immigrants.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Any issue you talk about, the lying rightwing media can always pivot to something else.
You have to talk about the root cause:
Foxs lies.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Laugh in their faces. Say theyre getting fd and they dont even know it.
You dont reason with Republicans, who typically have authoritarian personalities than more-rational Dems. You make them feel small and stupid and that theyre being used.
THAT is the key.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)And when they come back to reality, you can then have a normal human relationship with them, which is impossible now.
Shorter version of what I just said:
Oh, the poor snowflakes. Cant handle the truth.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)paleotn
(17,920 posts)Bluethroughu
(5,172 posts)I know how you feel, I have one family member that is on the fence about tRump. She wants to side with facts but likes the drama.
Anytime I hear someone boasting something about him, I kindly say, " I have standards, and if what he's said and done doesn't bother you, then I guess babies in cages doesn't either".
Usually, this sparks a, "What do you mean"?
I explain humans at the boarder, stripped of their childern, so they can be put into cages in closed Walmarts, yes this is your country and your leader doing this. The conversation usually ends and everyone is quiet for a few moments. I 'll then break the silence with, "It's bad, really bad".
You can't control them, but you don't have to sit idle and listen to their talking points fed to them from the teevee.
Remember you are part of the majority, we are here for you.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)I also recommend
You know, Fox is owned by a Republican billionaire who lies to you so youll vote for his tax cuts. You know you just put a $2 TRILLION tax cut on a credit card, right? Youre gonna pay that back. Wait, you dont know that? Oh yeah, you watch Fox and they lie to you.
Only two kinds of Republicans: billionaires, and suckers
Incredibly effective, over time. When you say that you are guaranteed to get yelled at. But it makes people think and changes their mondz
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)Jerry Hall. Formerly married to Mick Jagger
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Focus on how he benefited from the tax cut and thats why he is lying to them. Talk about the caravan.
That totally disappeared off Fox after the election. Caravans are still going on. That caravan was a LIE designed to get you to vote for billionaires. Sucker. And you dont even KNOW youre gonna pay back that $2 trillion tax cut.
Say sucker a lot. And useful idiot
Sounds crazy to us, but Republicans like Fox because they actually are persuaded by direct language and name calling. This would never work on a Democrat. But were not talking about Democrats.
progree
(10,908 posts)(the goobers that they con).
turbinetree
(24,703 posts)this subject.............. it is a picture:
?itok=m0wLV6yI
And then I told them................ he is traitor................and this pictures does not lie..................
Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)And while I haven't completely shut out the Trump people, I don't trust their judgement and I question their integrity. I'll have a beer with them or chat with them at gatherings (I'm really good at shifting conversations if I think they are going political) but they will never get into my inner circle.
Fyrefox
(300 posts)I have a nephew and niece who voted for Trump, and I now realize that in a fundamental way they operate on a profoundly different wavelength from what I do. On some level we all have to compartmentalize components of our lives that don't fit in harmoniously with the rest, and that's what I do. They remain family, with qualifications, and we'll get along as circumstances require if they don't rub their abhorrent beliefs in my face...
paleotn
(17,920 posts)Split our family down the middle. Two siblings and most of their crew are hyper religious, Trump loving, fetus worshipers. My other sibling, their side of the family and mine don't take religion seriously or have chucked it all together in my case. We're all Dems and progressives. The sad, but interesting part for my family is how religious fervor and support for the vilest, most corrupt President* in US history correlates so cleanly and positively.
Our family had been drifting apart for years anyway. That's relatively common when both parents pass and the sibs have extended families of their own, but this was the last straw. It's painful at times, but I simply cannot have contact with people who would actually welcome a Putinesqe dictatorship in the US. They're theocrats and I simply can't deal with that.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)voted for cutting childrens healthcare, harming small children. But little balls of cells, THAT they care about
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Ive reinforced my relationships with family and friends whom are like-minded.
Those whove been traditionally Republican but are now supporting Democratic Party candidates, and those few remaining Republicans that openly denounce Trump Im with, and respectful of our differences of opinions on some key issues.
Some who still are Republican but refuse to get onboard and oppose tRumpublicans I remain cordial to friendly with. Most of these have just decided to go apolitical and avoid elections all together.
Those whove gone full in on the orange Kool-aid.. been cut out of my life all together. Life is too short to waste on these people. Wouldnt piss on them if they are on fire. If they ever do come to their senses, Ill reevaluate on a case by case basis.
Then theres the ones that I hate the absolute most. The ones that supported Stein in 2016, equated Hillary to Trump, and/o went full on #BernOrBust and refused to vote knowing what we were getting. I despise these even more than the trump humpers. Not only would I not piss on them if they were on fire, I get sadistic pleasure every time Cheeto does something that angers them, or harms them.
Oregon1947
(43 posts)abdicating control over your lives and thoughts. What next, we start a civil war and start killing each other..that comes after not speaking etc.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)It's simpler than that.
I don't need people in my life who openly support evil and that's what this comes down to.
paleotn
(17,920 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Only the privileged can afford to avoid discussing the most important issues of our time.
Please let people know how you feel about the president and the GOP.
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)They call the cops on brown people going about their lives. They openly march and scream white supremacist chants. They drive cars into crowds of people and shoot up churches. They have already started killing people because of and for Trump.
I will not tolerate those who support him, what he represents and the damage he is doing to the country. Not family, friend or foe.
I will not go gently into that good night.
MikeIsInProcess
(23 posts)Trump wants them, and he already won them. Let him win? He did that, with them.
What he dearly wants is widespread acceptance, and hes never winning my acceptance of him or his hideous followers, even if theyre my own family. I keep that control. That is the kind of priority I place on his repugnant character or anyones support of it.
As for civil war, realistically it took a long time to work up to the last one. Its not high on my list of current concerns.
nini
(16,672 posts)No thanks.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)MariaS
(553 posts)For me if you support Trump than you have no place in my life. You're out. You can not be a good person if you condone the behavior and actions of the orange horror that squats in the people's house. I have 7 reasons to feel this way and they are my seven grandkids all under the age of 15. I am fighting for their future in this country and on this planet. I have no hesitation when it comes to shutting out people from my life if I think their beliefs and votes will affect the 7 kids I love so so much.
in2herbs
(2,945 posts)Joe Nation
(963 posts)All you have to do is pick a topic they will likely bring up. The economy, foreign relations, immigrants in cages, or anything they feel passionate about or like to take jabs at you about. Then you list off like 20 or 30 facts and go into as much detail as possible. I know they won't let any of it sink in but that isn't the point. The point is to bombard them with so much information that their eyes glaze over and then keep talking. You really want to get to the point where you can tell they are annoyed. Ask pointed questions and interrupt them when they try to answer. Make it an all out verbal assault. It won't change their minds but they will be more and more reluctant to bring up politics with you in the future. Remember, walk into the situation with enough preloaded information to keep talking for 10 to 20 minutes. You win when they start getting up and leaving the room and you're still talking. I suggest following them and not letting up. It can be really fun.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Talking about how and why Fox lies to them.
Talk about Rupert Murdochs tax cuts
Talk about the $2 trillion tax cut for billionaires on a credit card.
Say
Theres only two kinds of Republicans: billionaires, and suckers
Pointing out how and why Fox lies to them is incredibly effective over time.
Joe Nation
(963 posts)You might as well exhaust them with everything you can throw at them.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Gotta pull a weed out by the roots
hatrack
(59,587 posts)I've been biting my tongue for decades. I have never brought up politics once with them in at least 15 years, but when it comes to the topic, they CAN NOT SHUT UP.
They're like flies frozen in the amber of the 1980s, with an occasional splash of updated news from their favorite authoritative source, Some Guy On Facebook.
It's RonaldReaganRonaldReaganRonaldReagan, and evil liberals, and Hitlery and Bill Clinton blowjobs and Solyndra and Obummer and socialism and blahblahblahblahblah.
I've known them for 30 years and in 30 years they've forgotten nothing and learned nothing.
Finally, after walking out on Christmas 2 years ago, because BIL and SIL couldn't even stop one day out of the year, they seem to have finally noticed the courtesy I'd been extending them for over a decade, and they haven't gone there since - yet.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Dont let them off the hook. The only way were going to fix the nation is to confront our problems, not hide form them.
Use my script below about Fox.. talk about Fox as much as possible and how rightwing media lies to them.
Call them suckers and idiots to their faces (sounds bad for Dems like us but they love that kind of language; thats why Fox and Limbaugh use it.)
Call them traitors and fools. Mostly fools.
Only two kinds of Republicans: billionaires, and suckers
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)One possible script
You watch Fox, right? Do you know who owns Fox?
Its a rightwing billionaire, Rupert Murdoch. Fox lies to you about Trump and immigrants and Hillary yes LIES to you so youll vote for tax cuts for billionaires.
Murdoch has gotten billions in tax cuts. And you just put a $2 TRILLION tax cut on a credit card. Fox wont tell you that.
The billionaires that run the GOP sit around and laugh at you. They call you a useful idiot while they laugh about how theyre screwing you.
Youre a sucker. A fool. Anyone who watches Fox is getting screwed.
Dont be an idiot. Dont listen to Fox
Sancho
(9,070 posts)I have a sister/brother-in-law that I no longer visit or talk to anymore. I don't know if it will ever be the same.
lindysalsagal
(20,692 posts)It's an imaginary strawman.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)Like Mitt Romney.
They see liberals as takers and conservatives as makers.
AllyCat
(16,189 posts)Im so appalled at the lies they support and mental gymnastics they will display to continue to support this horror. And they supported Obama! Now this.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)With Trump he is succeeding bigly.
ananda
(28,865 posts)... none of my bridge partners are hard core Trumpers
or Reeps.
Occasionally I play teams with a couple of "conservatives"
but I studiously avoid talking politics or religion. I only
talk to "safe" people at the club or tournaments.
As for family, I haven't talked to the Reep side in years.
I just can't take the racism and white entitlement.
Roy Rolling
(6,917 posts)The opposite of love isnt hate, its indifference.
Ignore someone. Dont hate them, just ignore them. Dont give them the power or satisfaction of your intelligent response.
Dont stop working for good, dont ignore radical or illegal behaviors. Just stop giving Trump supporters the satisfaction of an angry response.
Let them simmer on their own because they arent even worth a response from you.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)piss you off or not. If those people are family it makes it tougher, but it is your life and mental health we are talking about.
They won't quit with their skewed world views, so agreeing to not talk politics won't work.
I chose many years ago not to spend my life with people who make me miserable. When I do have to, I make it short. If someone brings up politics, I let it be known right at the beginning that I am a proud liberal.
So far things are working well.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)unfortunately I work with him rather closely but, thankfully, we dont discuss politics at work unless during breaks. We had a project together and it was successful. He now holds me in rather high regard despite politcial differences.
I think that we should not burn bridges and destroy relationships, especially with family. Yes, if all they talk is trump nom stop then may be. But otherwise why not live a life of integrity and show them democratic values. They cant hate you so they cant say I hate dems. Its not a bad thing to have dems in trumpers lives. I think of them as drug addicts who need help. They are addicted to fox, talk radio, etc. and it is destroying our country.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Walk away from the fascist enablers. We are seeing how Hitler came to power and it's because of the type you just described. You simply cannot keep the peace with people who are destroying democracy.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)For a million reasons, all of which can be condensed into one statement: he lacks *ANY ability to objective.*
About anything. Period.
Not at all surprisingly, this lack creep into his personal judgment of me. I hit the enough mark.
*As do all rethugians, imo.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I cant even imagine hearing someone using a phrase like owning the libs. Who talks like that as an adult?
My only suggestion would be simply never to talk politics, but you seem to say thats not working.
NNadir
(33,523 posts)It's not about politics purely, but about who he is.
If you are a Trump apologist that says something about who you are.
There is, inevitably, some pain connected with love, but many people have to choose between the love of their family and their love of humanity. It's not easy.
A great deal has been written about and by members of the families of people who engineered the Holocaust. Some came down on the side of humanity, and some chose their family over decency.
They say that Reinhardt Heydrich was a wonderful violinist, and that he was "good" to his children and wife. His wife apparently loved him dearly.
They are putting small children in cages. You need to ask yourself if you want to be this woman:
Heydrich Widow
Or this man:
Hoess's grandson
It is terrible that it has become this stark in America, but this is where we are.
I feel for you; I feel your pain, I really do, but a moral choice is never easy.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)He believes that if his grandfather was alive today, he would definitely join those political bodies.
"Their ideology is the same and they never switched rules. They use horrible phrases to influence young people and say that minorities steal jobs and space. Just like the Nazis did with Jews."
He added that the only difference now is that the far Right parties have learned from the Nazis' mistakes.
Make no mistake, we're facing the same divide now that Germans did back then.
NNadir
(33,523 posts)He bears a heavy burden, but I admire him for facing the consequences of his family history.
He gave up on his family, not an easy thing, but a reflection of a great spirit.
In the documentary he lectured Jewish students visiting Auschwitz. It was a moving moment, very moving.
G_j
(40,367 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 21, 2019, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)
The story of Hoesss grandson is very poignant, and his references to the RW of today are worth noting!
AllaN01Bear
(18,242 posts)a number of thanksgivings ago, with extended fam, one guest kept saying at least i get to keep my own insurance plan. the host yelled out "no political bullshit". if i get striked i am going to file a formal complaint. then one christmas at my sis , " if u think i voted for trump, its none of your business. " next time i am going to say , not political bullshit or i am leaving. shame you had to cut off your fam. interesting what my late mom would have felt. a dem all her life and a union teacher besides . i live in a very red district in ca and at least i can find some kindrid spirits her
Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,431 posts)situations are handled. Once my wife and I eliminated contact with Trumper relatives and friends two plus years ago we have since learned from others who bridge the divide how those Trumpers really feel about us. They merely tolerated us liberals and quite honestly are quite happy they can now despise us.
Life is short, stress is a killer - choose the light is what I suggest.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Inlaws are dumpers. We only see them at Christmas. I cant tolerate any of them. I had to take a break from the news altogether. The latest scandal is really getting to me. Now theyre trying to Hillary, Biden.
rownesheck
(2,343 posts)as the trash have revealed themselves. Since I'm not a hoarder, I throw out the trash. No need for them. Weight is lifted off my shoulders.
ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)Supporting Trump makes one a bigot. I dont care to argue this, I take age and mental state into consideration as far as my responses to people, but Ill call it out.
What happened with my Brother and sister in law and my husband and I, is we drew that line quite some time ago. Now, Ill get a mild political comment, a little back and forth, but they know better than to say unacceptable shit around us. They know better than to start a political conversation, because we are poles apart. I dont even know if they voted for Trump.
We tentatively began visiting again once or twice a year about three years ago. Family means everything to them. My sister in law makes sure I know she volunteers at the food bank. Theyre bikers, they do toy runs for sick kids on Christmas. They are not bad people. They ARE bigots.
We all have raucous senses of humor, inappropriate as hell, so we get along. We are not Facebook friends.
I guess I picked my one battle, and it cleaned up one hell of a lot of bullshit. They know exactly how I feel. How my husband feels.
We put the ball in their court so to speak. They choose family over bigotry in this part of their lives.
If they hadnt, we would not be having any relationship at all, and that caused my husband a lot of pain.
Falcata
(156 posts)quite a few of my relatives are Trump fans. We never talk politics or religion. My family will still be here long after Trump is an ugly stain in some history book.
ooky
(8,923 posts)It got to the point with me that the subject of Trump didn't even have to come up anymore. I have found it impossible to have regular interactions with someone that I know in the back of my mind is supporting this vile individual, knowing what he is doing, because of any selfish reason. Its not in me to ignore that in anyone. So I too have ended important relationships over either active or passive support for this asshole. It just has to be done, it is not tolerable.
Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)
Rainbow Droid This message was self-deleted by its author.
Peace06
(248 posts)Both my sister and brother were trumpanzees. We just never discussed politics after the first huge fight. Finally, my sister came to her senses and now she despises him. My brother hasn't admitted it yet, but easy to tell he is disillusioned. So, maybe there is hope. It is so heartbreaking to think that your siblings could be for something so anti-American. So anti-Christian, so full of hate.
Maybe yours will change too.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)we cut off our in laws til Clinton came 12 years later
VarryOn
(2,343 posts)If I cut off family or friends who voted for Trump, I'd lose lots. Many of them, I frankly need mentally and relationally. Apart from their politics, they are people who I love, and more importantly, like.
A big part of it is I'm a fairly easy-going person with whom it takes a lot to trigger. I think it partly comes from a dad who would relentlessy tease me when I was younger or try to rile me up sometimes on different topics (e.g. politics, my music favorites, girlfriends, etc).
I've made a choice that individual relationships for the most part are more important than politics. I have just never written someone off for one specific reason. Anyone I've written off, it was always for muliple reasons.
Most of people in my life know I'm a liberal Democrat. Some of them tease me from time-to-time, and with a few, we have good debates. No one I can think of have ever been mean or disrepectful. On Election night, 2016, I received a few calls and texts from people feigning concern with strained glee. But nothing I considered mean-spirited. Stll, very touch nonethess.
If I lived where all my family and friends were like me, I could see maybe where it was easy to hate Republicans (and I a lot of them I still do now!).
All that said, I'd have no problem removing someone from my life who was obnoxious, mean and insufferable in being a Republican, conservative or Trumper.
DFW
(54,399 posts)I haven't seen or talked to him since our grandfather's 100th birthday party in 1994. But I heard that he was a big Cheneybush supporter, so one has to assume.
Other than that, we have no such people in our family. No surprise. My mom's parents were lower middle class people who barely survived the Great Depression by doing any odd jobs they could possibly find. My dad's father was the son of a South Carolina tailor, and he married a New York labor activist who got tossed out of Fiorello LaGuardia's administration in New York City for being "too friendly to labor." Not exactly conducive to becoming a right wing Republican.
As for how some people become what they are--after all, babies are not born wearing MAGA hats--a friend of my wife's parents told me exactly how. He was ten years old when World War II ended. He was, as all ten year old boys by that time, a member of the Hitler Youth. He said they were so brainwashed and indoctrinated, it was the only reality they knew--were allowed to know. Luckily, he was young enough for it not to leave a lasting effect, and he was grateful that he was "saved," and he was not referring to Jesus. Some guys older than he retained part of their ideology. My wife's grandfather risked the death penalty during the war by listening to British radio, and his Nazi neighbor knew it. But the neighbor didn't denounce him because they had been good friends before the war. After the war, he pleaded with my wife's grandfather not to say anything to the occupation forces (British sector) about his Nazi activity, reminding that he saved him from certain death for not denouncing him for listening to "enemy" radio. My grandfather agreed, and returned the favor.
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)Though we had a lot of family issues and instability prior to this (they kept divorcing and re-marrying, etc.). Basically, we had nothing family-wise to fall back on when their politics finally became too much for me.
Blessing or curse, one thing I learned as a gay man in America was that you had to cling to the family you chose, not necessarily the one you were given by genetics.
guss
(239 posts)Most my friends and Family are Republicans and are totally Believe that politics is a game show and party is more important than the country.
I tried to figure them out
I think I will call Toxic or Poison Republicans.
They are Brain washed by Rush and fox.
They Care more about destroying their Kids future and the USA more then one negative Reply about Republican and NRA getting sick of
them controlling messaging .
They are toxic to the country and poison for the future of this Country.
OldBaldy1701E
(5,129 posts)The answer to number four (as pertains to anyone who is in on this matter, i.e.: anyone profiting off of the current administration), of course, the answer is yes. Of course, this question should have been hammered into the collective consciousness a long time ago, but we were too busy being brainwashed by the oligarchy to think this behavior was 'the American Dream (r)' . Look, anyone who is 'rolling in it' will not bother to notice what the impact of their unbridled greed will have on anyone and anything. We need to stop appealing to those who sold their souls for a piece of paper because they are not going to care. (Unfortunately, that is the common practice these days...)