Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

babylonsister

(171,094 posts)
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 03:34 PM Oct 2019

David Frum: Mike Pence Failed in His Most Important Duty

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/mike-pences-role-ukraine-scandal-disgraceful/599449/


Mike Pence Failed in His Most Important Duty
The vice president is supposed to be prepared to step into the nation’s highest office if necessary.
11:03 AM ET
David Frum

snip//


At a press conference at the United Nations on September 25, Trump delivered a warning message. “The word is, they’re going to ask for the first phone conversation. You can have it any time you need it. And also Mike Pence’s conversations, which were, I think, one or two of them. They were perfect. They were all perfect.”

Indeed, Pence seems to have been involved up to the eyeballs in the Ukraine plot. His team’s messaging—Yes, he pressed the Ukrainians to investigate corruption, but he never appreciated that Trump’s true purpose was to pursue the Bidens—fails the laugh test. Pence’s taint presents a political problem for him, but raises a much graver question for the country. If the Senate ever could muster the integrity to remove Trump from office, there would be no Ford to put in his place, only a vice president who participated in Trump’s dirty schemes, from staying at a remote resort to direct government funds to Trump’s failing Irish golf course to extorting an invaded country to fabricate political dirt to help Trump’s reelection.

Trump’s compromised attorney general remains on the job, as does his apparently compromised secretary of state. As the text messages from Gordon Sondland, Trump’s ambassador to the European Union, confirm, the corruption permeates Trump’s second- and third-level appointments, too.

Not only is this scandal worse than Watergate—the break-in at the Democratic National Committee offices did not betray the national-security interests of the United States—but the outlook for the country is worse, too. There is no easy exit from the scandal by removing the president. Nixon’s party broke with him after the release of the “smoking gun” tape in August 1974 removed any possibility of honest belief in Nixon’s innocence. Trump’s guilt has now passed that point—and Trump’s party protects him anyway.

The political scientists can explain the structural reasons why the Republican Party has submitted to Trump, but structures are inhabited by people who make moral choices. The country needed Pence to keep himself clean, as Ford did, and instead—whether out of raw ambition or some weak personal impulse to subservience—Pence plunged into the deepest ooze of the mud. Maybe he struggled to keep his distance, maybe he obeyed only reluctantly, or maybe he eagerly volunteered to ingratiate himself with his crooked boss. That part of the story will all come out.

For now, all we need to say is that Pence betrayed his most important duty as vice president: Be ready to step into the nation’s highest office should the need arise. He’s as much a part of the problem as Trump is, and Pence’s personal choices ensure that the scandal of the century will continue to rip apart U.S. politics even if the impeachment process somehow succeeds.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
David Frum: Mike Pence Failed in His Most Important Duty (Original Post) babylonsister Oct 2019 OP
Fantastic piece from frum. OnDoutside Oct 2019 #1
It's only a matter of time, the one of the floodgates has opened. The wall of crimes will spill out ffr Oct 2019 #2
Who does #2 work for? Bob Loblaw Oct 2019 #15
I'd say both Trump and Pence resemble a #2 jayschool2013 Oct 2019 #24
Pence's proven unfitness seems to make a "gentleman's agreement" Hortensis Oct 2019 #3
By the time they get around to a removal vote in the Senate, Mr.Bill Oct 2019 #4
:) With Trump/Repub crimes a theme of all those months. Hortensis Oct 2019 #9
Pence is involved up to his albino eyebrows geardaddy Oct 2019 #5
A better phrase might be "Pence is up to his shades-of-white eyebrows." erronis Oct 2019 #17
Whitest white guy trump has ever used. calimary Oct 2019 #25
You're right. geardaddy Oct 2019 #30
Trump is stupid. And so is Pence for even accepting the position. LiberalLovinLug Oct 2019 #6
"Trump's party protects him anyway". SergeStorms Oct 2019 #7
Dear Mr. Frum: We are comfortable with Pres. Pelosi. Impeach Pence spooky3 Oct 2019 #8
Not his job. Ours. Hortensis Oct 2019 #10
I'm not giving him the job. I'm describing an alternative spooky3 Oct 2019 #11
I noticed that he chose not to. He's no longer a Republican, Hortensis Oct 2019 #14
Are we looking at the first Woman President, Nancy Pelosi? George II Oct 2019 #12
Pence is poison fruit TrogL Oct 2019 #13
Um...Spiro Agnew? robbob Oct 2019 #16
Wrong. Ford was brought in so "Bagman" Agnew could be got rid of, & to be a caretaker prez .. Hekate Oct 2019 #20
Well yes, robbob Oct 2019 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author yonder Oct 2019 #18
The Senate Republicans should make a deal: We'll convict Trump if you leave Pence alone. Hamlette Oct 2019 #19
Absolutely not. Pence is up to his neck in this, as Trump just made sure we all know. nt Hekate Oct 2019 #21
No. They're both crooked as hell, they both deserve the same fate. nt babylonsister Oct 2019 #22
That wouldn't surprise me, actually. calimary Oct 2019 #26
Thanks, babylonsister. Frum is generally a good read. Hekate Oct 2019 #23
I hope the Democratic leadership has a plan to prevent Pence from taking office should Nitram Oct 2019 #27
Of course they have a plan. It's called impeachment of the VP. Hekate Oct 2019 #29

ffr

(22,672 posts)
2. It's only a matter of time, the one of the floodgates has opened. The wall of crimes will spill out
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 03:46 PM
Oct 2019

Pence is unfit for any office, let alone #2

It's a cabal of criminals. Only a few are resigning, but it's only a matter of time

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
3. Pence's proven unfitness seems to make a "gentleman's agreement"
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:02 PM
Oct 2019

between parties to remove Trump in the nation's best interests unlikely. My auto-take anyway.

Given Pence's complicity in the crimes Trump would be removed for, even if McConnell were willing, how could Democrats agree to allow him to fulfill Trump's last year? And would anything short of dire scandal threatening McConnell himself cause him to agree to a President Pelosi?

Mr.Bill

(24,330 posts)
4. By the time they get around to a removal vote in the Senate,
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:08 PM
Oct 2019

it will probably be only a few months left of Trump's term. Timing is everything, and right now Pelosi is in 100% control of the timing.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. :) With Trump/Repub crimes a theme of all those months.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:54 PM
Oct 2019

Although our Dem leaders are saying they'd like to submit to the senate this year so what our candidates offer can be the focus in 2020. Whatever, they have plans.

erronis

(15,355 posts)
17. A better phrase might be "Pence is up to his shades-of-white eyebrows."
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 05:32 PM
Oct 2019

Since there is no color whatsoever in his outward persona.

I'll bet $1,000 that his insides are shit-colored.

calimary

(81,508 posts)
25. Whitest white guy trump has ever used.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 06:03 PM
Oct 2019

Probably will use him up and throw him out, if the pattern holds.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
6. Trump is stupid. And so is Pence for even accepting the position.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:37 PM
Oct 2019

A smart mob boss would have his second in command be squeeky clean for the sake of 'the family' surviving. But then Trump never did care about the Republican family or any family, only himself.

But Pence, or his advisors, should have insisted he remain at arms length to the President and his actions.

But I also think Pence is a weakling. Between 'mother' and his daddy Donnie, he's thoroughly a kept man. I'm sure he was picked because of his docility. And Trump is a predator. He has no loyalty to Pence either. He uses people and throws them away. So Pence would have perhaps had in mind to keep a distance, but, as a weakling, he couldn't withstand the constant pressure from his boss to help him hold power. I've never seen a man with such a guilty expression permanently pasted onto his face.

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
7. "Trump's party protects him anyway".
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:44 PM
Oct 2019

The republicans are the party of cheating, lying, political dishonesty, and should never again be entrusted by the American people with any claim to governance. The republican party should forevermore be considered dead.

spooky3

(34,483 posts)
11. I'm not giving him the job. I'm describing an alternative
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:59 PM
Oct 2019

Action he should have considered in his article. The alternatives are not simply to leave Trump in office, or to have to accept a “dirtied” Pence.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. I noticed that he chose not to. He's no longer a Republican,
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 05:12 PM
Oct 2019

I guess, but he's conservative, and pointing out Pence's betrayal of his duty to be an honorable successor is worth an article on its own even to me, so no doubt especially to conservatives.

Especially millions of worried conservatives who must have comforted themselves that at least they had Pence if everything went bad.

robbob

(3,538 posts)
16. Um...Spiro Agnew?
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 05:27 PM
Oct 2019

I believe he was Vice President when Watergate began? I think Ford was brought in for one reason only; to grant Nixon a pardon as soon as he resigned.

Hekate

(90,829 posts)
20. Wrong. Ford was brought in so "Bagman" Agnew could be got rid of, & to be a caretaker prez ..
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 05:46 PM
Oct 2019

..when Nixon was gotten rid of. And Ford had to be clean (he was). First things first. However the pardon of Nixon came about, both Agnew and Nixon had to go first.

robbob

(3,538 posts)
28. Well yes,
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 07:33 PM
Oct 2019

That was my point; Ford was the “clean” vp because they needed to get rid of Agnew and pardon Nixon. So, by the op article mentioned, Pence has to go and be replaced by a “clean” vp, but unfortunately (for tRump), he has so many crimes on record that no amount of pardons is going to get him off the hook...

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

calimary

(81,508 posts)
26. That wouldn't surprise me, actually.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 06:17 PM
Oct 2019

They might calculate that the evangelical community would be as solid for Mr. My Religion Beats Your Rights as the racists, gun nuts, and other haters have been for trump.

And he has that nice clean white facade of “America’s Heartland’.” And he’s probably not inclined to stink up the joint in real time and try to dominate all the headlines. He doesn’t strike me as an attention whore like trump is. He’s a phony-baloney holier-than-thou. Who doesn’t practice what he tries to jam down the throats of the rest of us. He’d be the fundamentalists’ dream candidate. They’d have his back like crazy.

Nitram

(22,892 posts)
27. I hope the Democratic leadership has a plan to prevent Pence from taking office should
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 06:29 PM
Oct 2019

Trump be removed from office.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»David Frum: Mike Pence F...