General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNOT a defeatist thread, but what can be done in the face of obstruction?
We know the DOJ is currently out of business. The courts take forever. So what now, boys and girls?
RandySF
(59,279 posts)Theres no shortcut, folks.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)on an election that is already rigged in Trump's favor by Russia and the GOP?
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Cue Comey, Wray, Coates, Mueller who all told us UNDER OATH that the election is rigged "as we sit here"
All T has to do is botch several state results, refer to SCOTUS for resolution, and VOILA. Fait accompli.
CANNOT WAIT FOR ELECTION. CANNOT RELY ON ELECTION.
RandySF
(59,279 posts)RDANGELO
(3,435 posts)That's what is happening, and that is why the poll numbers for the inquiry and impeachment are going up. They need to make it clear that obstruction will be included in the articles of impeachment. He may not be removed from office, but this will affect the election.
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Trump's numbers TODAY on approval of an inquiry are the same that Nixon's were MONTHS later during the Senate trial!!
MSNBC, tonight.
elleng
(131,159 posts)The means used to implement this course of conduct or plan included one or more of the following:
making false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States;
withholding relevant and material evidence or information from lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States;
approving, condoning, acquiescing in, and counselling witnesses with respect to the giving of false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States and false or misleading testimony in duly instituted judicial and congressional proceedings;
interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, and Congressional Committees;
approving, condoning, and acquiescing in, the surreptitious payment of substantial sums of money for the purpose of obtaining the silence or influencing the testimony of witnesses, potential witnesses or individuals who participated in such unlawful entry and other illegal activities;
endeavouring to misuse the Central Intelligence Agency, an agency of the United States;
disseminating information received from officers of the Department of Justice of the United States to subjects of investigations conducted by lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States, for the purpose of aiding and assisting such subjects in their attempts to avoid criminal liability;
making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States into believing that a thorough and complete investigation had been conducted with respect to allegations of misconduct on the part of personnel of the executive branch of the United States and personnel of the Committee for the Re-election of the President, and that there was no involvement of such personnel in such misconduct: or
endeavouring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony.
https://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment
Midnight Writer
(21,807 posts)dalton99a
(81,599 posts)"Republicans decline to comment"
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)People in the street.
Look to the model of the Civil Rights Era. Just people gathered together in their good clothes, standing, walking, determined.
No papier mache whales, no drummers or stilt walkers or pink pussy hats.
Just people en masse. People of all kinds.
THAT will make a tyrant tremble.
We are the ones we have been waiting for. People in the street will provide cover for Dems in Congress.
BigmanPigman
(51,636 posts)There have been tons where I live but I know that rural areas don't have many and when they do the turnout isn't very large. People give me an assortment of excuses for not attending over the past 3 years. Basically they use anything for an excuse and this is in a blue area too. The fucking moron's actions haven't had a large negative impact on their personal lives to make it a priority for a few hours every few months. Very discouraging. I am really pissed off since I finally have had my activist activities reduced due to my failing health. I knew it would happen but didn't know when. It sucks!
Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)First of all stop treating the documents as necessary to impeachment. I think Pelosi or Schiff pointed out that obstruction is impeachable. We have enough evidence he has asked foreign countries for help in his campaign which is criminal and impeachable. Start saying that if there is anything exculpatory bring it forward now before its too late.
The only issue in the upcoming election is winning. I agree we are going to face interference. We cant be defeatist. Treat it as having to win by a bigger margin. Nothing is lost by acting that way.
Also stop worrying about policy differences. Worry about not providing fodder for attack ads. For example I dont think the answer to they are going to take away your private insurance is yes we are but thats better for you. The right answer is no were not we are giving you more options and the republicans are the ones who have spent 10 years fight to take away the affordable care act.
We need to use talking points more effectively. Particularly from the candidates. I want all of them saying that getting foreigners to attack the Bidens is really an attack on all Americans. That Barr is obstructing justice and must stop actin as trumps personal lawyer. Never took a marketing class but even I know repetition works. I dont want their personal spin on it. I want who says it most convincingly
There are other tools but I think they would backfire. The house holds the power of the purse. We could shut down government but i think that work against us.
Just my 2 cents
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)it's probably the only thing that will work.
LeftInTX
(25,567 posts)It's like wishing for a hurricane to hit Mar a Lago and not damage the rest of Palm Beach