General Discussion

kentuck

(111,110 posts) Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:04 AM Oct 2019

How many impeachment charges would you file against Donald Trump?

In my opinion, each of the recent obstruction of justice charges should be adjudicated in a Senate trial.

In order for that to happen, he will have to be impeached in the whole House and Articles of Impeachment presented to the Senate.

Also, the ten obstruction charges that was discovered by Robert Mueller should be included in a Senate trial also, in my opinion.

Throw it in their laps! They created the problem....let them fix it?

Or should the Democrats let the charges work their way thru the Courts? How long could that take?

Do the Courts see a threat to our democracy? Do they see a threat to our national security? Do they see abuse of power? Do they see obstruction of justice? Do they see extortion? Do they see treason?

How soon should the House impeach?

20 replies

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How many impeachment charges would you file against Donald Trump? (Original Post) kentuck Oct 2019 OP

All of them. SlogginThroughIt Oct 2019 #1

That was my answer as I read the title! n/t DVRacer Oct 2019 #13

All of these... N_E_1 for Tennis Oct 2019 #2

Thanks! femmocrat Oct 2019 #4

Violation of the Presidential Records Act. Witness intimidation. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #16

+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2019 #17

You've thought this through a lot more than I have. Mike 03 Oct 2019 #3

I think it would be a mistake to focus solely on Ukraine. kentuck Oct 2019 #5

Personally, I agree with you. Mike 03 Oct 2019 #6

The gamble is: kentuck Oct 2019 #8

I think Speaker Pelosi or Mr. Schiff kacekwl Oct 2019 #7

However many Articles they can pass thru the House. kentuck Oct 2019 #9

Yep. kacekwl Oct 2019 #20

It is important for History ritapria Oct 2019 #10

I agree. kentuck Oct 2019 #12

To not do so will set a dangerous precedent. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #18

Benjamin Wittes, et al over at Lawfare recommended just five articles of impeachment: Poiuyt Oct 2019 #11

failure of duty to defend the us and the constitution. election interference. nt wiggs Oct 2019 #14

also...because of ongoing investigations and hearings, more will come out every week. That's wiggs Oct 2019 #15

I think that may be the Republicans' worst fear.... kentuck Oct 2019 #19

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)

1. All of them.

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:09 AM

Oct 2019

DVRacer

(707 posts)

13. That was my answer as I read the title! n/t

Reply to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:03 AM

Oct 2019

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,785 posts)

2. All of these...

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:15 AM

Oct 2019

https://rootsaction.org/trump-articles-of-impeachment

The list as of yesterday...constantly updated. Each explained at the link.

Violation of Constitution on Domestic Emoluments
Violation of Constitution on Foreign Emoluments
Incitement of Violence
Interference With Voting Rights
Discrimination Based On Religion
Illegal War
Illegal Threat of Nuclear War
Abuse of Pardon Power
Obstruction of Justice
Politicizing Prosecutions
Collusion Against the United States with a Foreign Government
Failure to Reasonably Prepare for or Respond to Hurricanes Harvey and Maria
Separating Children and Infants from Families
Illegally Attempting to Influence an Election

Assaulting Freedom of the Press

Unconstitutional Declaration of Emergency
Instructing Border Patrol to Violate the Law
Refusal to Comply With Subpoenas
Declaration of Emergency Without Basis In Order to Violate the Will of Congress
Illegal Proliferation of Nuclear Technology
Illegally Removing the United States from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)

4. Thanks!

Reply to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:28 AM

Oct 2019

Excellent list. Glad someone is keeping track of his many crimes.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)

16. Violation of the Presidential Records Act. Witness intimidation.

Reply to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:55 AM

Oct 2019

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)

17. +1000

Reply to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:57 AM

Oct 2019

Thanks for this! Bookmarked.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)

3. You've thought this through a lot more than I have.

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:19 AM

Oct 2019

Momentum seems to be moving towards keeping the focus narrowly on Ukraine.

But somewhere, I'd like to see a "master list" of all the impeachable things he's done, including all the Mueller Report obstructions, all the abuses of power, right down to self-enrichment, emoluments and tampering with witnesses. I don't know how best to accomplish this.

We haven't even got to money laundering or the Inauguration Funds scandal. There are so many scandals and violations it's hard to keep them all straight. We'll need a database!

kentuck

(111,110 posts)

5. I think it would be a mistake to focus solely on Ukraine.

Reply to Mike 03 (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:34 AM

Oct 2019

The solution is to vote on each charge in a Senate trial, including the unindicted co-conspirator in the Stormy Daniels case, for which Michael Cohen is now doing time.

If there is an impeachment, put it all on the table. Hold nothing back.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)

6. Personally, I agree with you.

Reply to kentuck (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:38 AM

Oct 2019

I'd like to see him held accountable for everything.

They might break it up into pieces, but it seems like Pelosi wants to seize the moment because Ukraine is so easy for everybody to understand and so plainly illegal.

There are all these other investigations going. What will happen with them?

kentuck

(111,110 posts)

8. The gamble is:

Reply to Mike 03 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:44 AM

Oct 2019

..that the PR machine of Trump and the Republicans can take any one issue and twist it into something it is not and defeat it in the public opinion polls.

It would be much more difficult to do if all the charges are on the table.

kacekwl

(7,022 posts)

7. I think Speaker Pelosi or Mr. Schiff

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:43 AM

Oct 2019

should have a press conference daily and recite maybe 2 or 3 charges a day to the American public. That should fill a few weeks. Whether or not they charge this many they should show the multitude of offenses they have to choose from.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)

9. However many Articles they can pass thru the House.

Reply to kacekwl (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:47 AM

Oct 2019

They should pass them one at a time.

Then they should pass all of them over to the Senate for a trial on each of the charges.

kacekwl

(7,022 posts)

20. Yep.

Reply to kentuck (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:20 PM

Oct 2019

ritapria

(1,812 posts)

10. It is important for History

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:56 AM

Oct 2019

that the full extent of Trump's wrongdoing be fully exposed in the form of Articles of Impeachment

kentuck

(111,110 posts)

12. I agree.

Reply to ritapria (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:02 AM

Oct 2019

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)

18. To not do so will set a dangerous precedent.

Reply to ritapria (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:13 AM

Oct 2019

Poiuyt

(18,130 posts)

11. Benjamin Wittes, et al over at Lawfare recommended just five articles of impeachment:

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:59 AM

Oct 2019

We think Congress should focus its impeachment consideration—if, indeed, it now means to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry—on five major areas, each of which could easily support an article of impeachment.

• The first is obstruction of justice and abuse of law enforcement institutions and personnel.
• The second involves his attempts to leverage the power of the presidency to cause investigation and prosecution of political opponents.
• The third broad area Congress should focus on is the abuse of the president’s foreign policy authorities and misuse of congressionally appropriated money to induce a foreign head of state to violate the civil liberties of U.S. persons and interfere in a presidential election.
• The fourth area for Congress to focus on in considering impeachment is the president’s efforts to obstruct or impede congressional investigations.
• A final area Congress should examine is Trump’s lying to the American public.

Focusing an impeachment inquiry on these areas will be frustrating. It will mean that a great deal of maddening conduct—indeed impeachable and even criminal conduct—on the president’s part will necessarily take a back seat. But it is critical to conducting an impeachment process in a defensible and coherent fashion that makes a statement about acceptable presidential behavior. If the House is really moving to consider impeaching the president, it needs to resist the temptation to turn the impeachment process into an indiscriminate expression of any and all grievances. It must ground itself in the provable record. And it needs to make decisions about what message it wants to send about what presidential conduct a coordinate branch will brand as constitutionally intolerable in a person who swears the presidential oath of office.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/so-you-want-impeach-president

Of course, Wittes has written a very thoughtful article and has presented a thorough justification for these five offenses and why Congress should limit itself.

wiggs

(7,819 posts)

14. failure of duty to defend the us and the constitution. election interference. nt

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:49 AM

Oct 2019

wiggs

(7,819 posts)

15. also...because of ongoing investigations and hearings, more will come out every week. That's

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:51 AM

Oct 2019

probably why the WH is baiting the House to impeach now, while there are only a dozen or so articles available. Counterintelligence investigations don't always go public since they are aiming to catch systems and perpetrators, but there is always the threat that something will leak that is even more damning than Ukraine.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)

19. I think that may be the Republicans' worst fear....

Reply to wiggs (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 02:31 PM

Oct 2019

...that more and more will come out every week and they could be in a very weak position by the time of the election.

But they have strong faith in the value of PR, lies, and propaganda.

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