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choie

(4,111 posts)
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:07 AM Oct 2019

Picture this: it's the year 2035 - 16 years from today

we turn on the tv and who do we see but Ellen Degeneres, or another yakker talking about how Trump deserves our kindness. Or, a Democratic president hugging him like he's their long lost brother. What would your reaction be? Mostly revulsion, right?

Well, it's been 16 years since 2003 when GW Bush lied us into a war and started down the road to becoming a war criminal. I don't know about you, but back then I wouldn't have thought that in such a short time we'd have people treating Bush like he's their warm and fuzzy grandfather, or other such relative.

This is what happens when we don't hold our leaders accountable for their crimes. Among other things, it permits the revisionism that is now occurring. If we - and I include Obama and other politicians in the "we" - had held the Bush administration to account either during his presidency or through a subsequent legal process, we might not be in the situation we're in today. Perhaps our elected officials might understand that there are severe repercussions to their behavior...that we, the American people, wouldn't stand for lies, corruption and unethical policies. And THAT is why we must do what we can do to protect our democracy, and make Trump answer for his crimes and unethical, immoral behavior.

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Picture this: it's the year 2035 - 16 years from today (Original Post) choie Oct 2019 OP
Well said. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #1
I totally agree. I think the biggest mistake of the first two years of the Obama presidency was the Coventina Oct 2019 #2
Agree. It was a mistake not to hold them to account. NCLefty Oct 2019 #8
Criminals don't ignore the past. They're like: "Hey, that worked out NICE!" Beartracks Oct 2019 #3
What is that old saying now? Disaffected Oct 2019 #4
Or perhaps Butterflylady Oct 2019 #30
K&R SamKnause Oct 2019 #5
And let's face it, the US is an imperialistic nation with a long history... Garrett78 Oct 2019 #11
The ugly truth indeed. SamKnause Oct 2019 #13
Post worth saving ⬆⬆ Duppers Oct 2019 #21
Honestly, I think Ellen is getting so much shit because of Trump DrToast Oct 2019 #6
Its wasnt classy for Michelle and it's not classy for Ellen. Joe941 Oct 2019 #63
I just think OJ Simpson should publicly solicit being a guest on her show... tandem5 Oct 2019 #7
Ivanka will be launching her campaign to run for her third term as POTUS by then sop Oct 2019 #9
You assume Trump will be alive 16 years from now. Initech Oct 2019 #10
No KFC in lock up aeromanKC Oct 2019 #14
He's in pretty good health for a man of his age. Most men in their 70s aren't playing golf and Doodley Oct 2019 #18
I see no indication he's in good health at all. BlueStater Oct 2019 #23
Golf gives more exercise than most men in their 70s get. If my family members in their 70s were Doodley Oct 2019 #28
He never walks when he golfs. lunatica Oct 2019 #37
He even drives the damn golf carts onto the GREEN. Dave Starsky Oct 2019 #45
If the men in your family in their seventies are in that poor shape (needing that much caregiving), maddiemom Oct 2019 #49
They took poor care of themselves. Fatty southern food. No exercise. Alcohol. They Doodley Oct 2019 #50
Ah, that explains it. Too bad. maddiemom Oct 2019 #58
Maybe genes and family history too; treestar Oct 2019 #59
Yeah I would definitely not trust Dr. Oz's opinion on anything. Initech Oct 2019 #44
If he was not in good health he would not be doing non stop rallies since his election. former9thward Oct 2019 #46
Just because he isn't on his deathbed doesn't mean he's in good health. BlueStater Oct 2019 #47
I have been seeing posts predicting Trump's imminent death since 2015. former9thward Oct 2019 #52
Not dying or being dead is a pretty low standard of good health. BlueStater Oct 2019 #54
I am not going to play a doctor on the internet. former9thward Oct 2019 #67
I don't care how respected Doc Ronny may or may not have been in the past. BlueStater Oct 2019 #69
I have seen posts pretending an obvious joke is imminent policy. LanternWaste Oct 2019 #68
Golf cart to the first hole... N_E_1 for Tennis Oct 2019 #33
GOLF? Lots of men (and women) in their seventies are playing golf. maddiemom Oct 2019 #48
Sorry, but Trump is much, much, much worse than George Bush, much as I couldn't stand him. pnwmom Oct 2019 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author lunatica Oct 2019 #38
I didn't say "pretty good sort." But Trump is worse than any previous President, by far. n/t pnwmom Oct 2019 #39
I posted the first thing that came to mind lunatica Oct 2019 #40
Thank you, lunatica. pnwmom Oct 2019 #41
Uhm.. honestly I dont know who is worse. Joe941 Oct 2019 #64
Is Bush getting shit from the right? 33taw Oct 2019 #15
Trump is so bad, none of us might not be here is 16 years. Doodley Oct 2019 #16
TV in 2035 will be about the millions displaced by climate change and the crisis of it. roamer65 Oct 2019 #17
Good point. We are about to enter a very dark age. Doodley Oct 2019 #19
It amazes me that young people move to Florida, Arizona, etc. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #22
Young ones think they and the world around them is forever. roamer65 Oct 2019 #27
After we take the senate and presidency back. OneCrazyDiamond Oct 2019 #43
Well, I'm glad you and others believe that misanthrope Oct 2019 #55
It sounds like you are losing or lost hope. OneCrazyDiamond Oct 2019 #71
The Europeans are ahead, yes misanthrope Oct 2019 #72
This message was self-deleted by its author Lock him up. Oct 2019 #20
Didn't someone accept candy from Bush? nt Duppers Oct 2019 #24
Michelle Obama Bayard Oct 2019 #34
Yup. Duppers Oct 2019 #35
Big IF that Trump will even be alive in 2035. He's currently 73. BlueStater Oct 2019 #25
So, who will be king then? FiveGoodMen Oct 2019 #36
16 years from now Trump will probably be dead; he's 73 (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Oct 2019 #26
Bush didn't even vote for Trump Dirty Socialist Oct 2019 #29
This thing with Ellen is manufactured outrage Sherman A1 Oct 2019 #31
I think Ellen sees it as lordsummerisle Oct 2019 #51
Perhaps Sherman A1 Oct 2019 #56
I'm sure she'd return the compliment n/t lordsummerisle Oct 2019 #66
Makes Sherman A1 Oct 2019 #70
Yup pintobean Oct 2019 #61
+1 Sherman A1 Oct 2019 #62
Extremely well said. Mike Niendorff Oct 2019 #32
I agree with accountability. OneCrazyDiamond Oct 2019 #42
I agree with you, Ellen does not, it's her choice Demonaut Oct 2019 #53
That lack of accountability is dangerous. ramen Oct 2019 #57
Lyndon Johnson did that in Vietnam Buckeyeblue Oct 2019 #60
I agree with your idea but holding leaders accountable is complicated Buckeyeblue Oct 2019 #65

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
2. I totally agree. I think the biggest mistake of the first two years of the Obama presidency was the
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:10 AM
Oct 2019

"let's forget the past, just move forward" attitude.

At the time, I was OK with it, believing that there would never be such a horrible administration ever again!

Boy was I ever wrong.

We all were.....

NCLefty

(3,678 posts)
8. Agree. It was a mistake not to hold them to account.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:46 AM
Oct 2019

We seem to like doing that but it's sending the wrong message to these people.

SamKnause

(13,106 posts)
5. K&R
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:42 AM
Oct 2019

I agree, but it didn't start with Obama.

Corporations have taken over our government and the courts.

Ford should have not pardoned Nixon.

The military is rarely held accountable.

The Pentagon is never held accountable.

Our police are rarely held accountable.

Wall Street was not held accountable.

The U.S. has a two tiered justice system.

The U.S. is corrupt.

Trump is increasing that corruption on a grand scale.

It is difficult to have trust in a system that continues to fail those it is meant to protect.



Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
11. And let's face it, the US is an imperialistic nation with a long history...
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:17 AM
Oct 2019

...of supporting ruthless dictators. No leader of the US Empire is going to relish holding predecessors accountable, as they, too, may face the same fate.

This is an ugly truth that most don't want to face. Smedley Butler knew what he was talking about.

DrToast

(6,414 posts)
6. Honestly, I think Ellen is getting so much shit because of Trump
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:43 AM
Oct 2019

When Michelle Obama was friends with Bush, everyone talked about how classy she was being.

tandem5

(2,072 posts)
7. I just think OJ Simpson should publicly solicit being a guest on her show...
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:44 AM
Oct 2019

that would kinda shut down her argument pretty fast.

Initech

(100,076 posts)
10. You assume Trump will be alive 16 years from now.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:04 AM
Oct 2019

Given his diet and near complete lack of exercise, a massive coronary will most likely be his downfall. And what's left of his supporters will most likely blame his death on the deep state.

Doodley

(9,092 posts)
18. He's in pretty good health for a man of his age. Most men in their 70s aren't playing golf and
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:55 AM
Oct 2019

living an ultra-high stressful life. Don't get me wrong. I want him gone now, but he could be around for a long time.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
23. I see no indication he's in good health at all.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:09 AM
Oct 2019

The only information about his health has been revealed through hack doctors.

And golf isn't exactly what I would call the most physical of sports.

Doodley

(9,092 posts)
28. Golf gives more exercise than most men in their 70s get. If my family members in their 70s were
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:30 AM
Oct 2019

still playing golf, my life would not revolve around caring for them, taking them to doctors, and getting their prescriptions and groceries.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
37. He never walks when he golfs.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:59 PM
Oct 2019

He uses golf carts exclusively. That is hardly exercise. You drive to the golf ball, reach into the golf bag for a club, hit the ball, climb back into your golf cart and so on and so on. That’s hardly exercise.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
45. He even drives the damn golf carts onto the GREEN.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 06:50 PM
Oct 2019

Which would get you and me kicked off any golf course in America. He can't even walk 15 fucking feet to putt a golf ball.

This sad, heart-congested, morbidly obese mofo is simply unfit for office in every way.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
49. If the men in your family in their seventies are in that poor shape (needing that much caregiving),
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 09:04 PM
Oct 2019

they must have taken very poor care of themselves when younger, or had unfortunate health problems for years.

Doodley

(9,092 posts)
50. They took poor care of themselves. Fatty southern food. No exercise. Alcohol. They
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:00 PM
Oct 2019

didn't put money aside for any care in their older years. They are Republicans. They begrudge healthcare for people who aren't as fortunate as them. But as a good husband, I have to suck it up and be there for my in-laws.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
59. Maybe genes and family history too;
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:25 AM
Oct 2019

though I would agree; people in my family have to be in their 80s before you are carting them to the doctor's office and doing errands for them. With them using canes and walkers, etc. In their 70s they were traveling and doing outside things; still driving.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
46. If he was not in good health he would not be doing non stop rallies since his election.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 07:17 PM
Oct 2019

To fly around the country and speak for a hour and a half at a time or more takes a lot. People in poor health could not do that. I know that all sorts of people will now claim they could do it and they are in their 70s, etc. but that is the beauty of the internet....

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
47. Just because he isn't on his deathbed doesn't mean he's in good health.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 08:18 PM
Oct 2019

Being nearly 300 pounds when he's 73 is a pretty strong indication of that, as well as his terrible diet and nearly nonexistent lack of exercise (if you have to count golfing and talking at a podium as exercise, you're really straining).

I've seen healthy elderly people. My paternal grandfather was still playing tennis when he was in his early 90s. Some fat asshole opening his ignorant mouth for two hours doesn't impress me.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
52. I have been seeing posts predicting Trump's imminent death since 2015.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:56 PM
Oct 2019

I suppose some year they will come true....

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
54. Not dying or being dead is a pretty low standard of good health.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 02:26 AM
Oct 2019

The fact that he has continuously gone through so much trouble to hide his medical records from the public seems to suggest there's something in them that he doesn't want anyone to see.

Based on his lifestyle and physical appearance, he's unhealthy. Just because he hasn't suffered a major health crisis as of now (at least that we know of) doesn't mean anything. People his age who don't take care of their bodies can be fine one second and then in a whole hell of a lot of trouble the next.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
67. I am not going to play a doctor on the internet.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 08:49 AM
Oct 2019

I will leave that to others. But speaking of medical records I can remember President Obama declined to release his full medical report and just a summary. (Those exams were done by Ronnie Jackson, the person Obama appointed to be his personal physician and is now blasted as some sort of fraud). Presidents try to hide medical conditions and embarrassments. Kennedy was the most famous for doing that. It is human nature. It is just one more thing voters have to consider when deciding who to support.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
69. I don't care how respected Doc Ronny may or may not have been in the past.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 09:14 AM
Oct 2019

When he stood at the podium and made such ridiculous hyperbolic statements as President Asshole being able to live to 150, something no professional doctor would do, I knew he had gone to the dark side.

Other than what Doc Ronny and that other quack doctor in New York have said and I don't trust either of them as far as I could throw them, we know absolutely nothing about Trump's health. Nothing at all. He's the least transparent person to ever tragically obtain the presidency.

Since we know nothing about Trump's health, I have to play internet doctor and make my own assessment based on what I see. Judging from everything I know about healthy eating, exercise, and weight management, he's not healthy and is risking heart disease by continuing to live the way he is. That's common knowledge regardless of whether you're a professional or not.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
68. I have seen posts pretending an obvious joke is imminent policy.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 09:12 AM
Oct 2019

Which is about as relevant as your own reponse.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,727 posts)
33. Golf cart to the first hole...
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:19 PM
Oct 2019

He stumbles out waddles to the tee...swipes at a little ball...gets in the cart is driven to the ball...gets out...swipes at a ball... is driven....come on that’s not an indicator of being in good health. I know guys in their 70’s that can chop a few cords of wood for heat in the winter or still grab the shovel and clean out the roadside ditch in front of the house and none of them would wear anything like he is.

Oh yeah... I’m a short couple of years behind them and I’m sitting here after lunch just finishing up clearing a 20’ x 220’ piece of my backyard for our new blueberry and raspberry garden for next year.
Reclaimed from our old field.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
12. Sorry, but Trump is much, much, much worse than George Bush, much as I couldn't stand him.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:19 AM
Oct 2019

Bush was just a normal rotten Republican President. Trump is a monster.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
40. I posted the first thing that came to mind
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 03:06 PM
Oct 2019

I will cancel the post. It wasn’t meant as a personal attack on you.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
22. It amazes me that young people move to Florida, Arizona, etc.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:07 AM
Oct 2019

Then again, it shouldn't amaze me given how much denial and ignorance there is.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
27. Young ones think they and the world around them is forever.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:17 AM
Oct 2019

I did...and it isn’t.

Reality eventually bites everyone. In 2035, reality is going to bite harder than a T Rex.

OneCrazyDiamond

(2,032 posts)
43. After we take the senate and presidency back.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 04:26 PM
Oct 2019

That won't happen. We see clearly what the opposition is, and will move quickly. Young Democrats like AOC have the vision and focus we need to avoid that hellish scenario.

misanthrope

(7,417 posts)
55. Well, I'm glad you and others believe that
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 03:34 AM
Oct 2019

However, what's coming in 2035 is already in the pipeline on the way to us. Look at how the data coming in is beyond what were conservative estimates for changes to the climate and ecosphere. Any changes enacted soon will be in hopes of staving off the rising effects in the latter half of the century.

That said, I'm doubtful enough gets done in time. I don't have enough faith in our species being able to act swiftly enough in such massive numbers. It's so inherently problematic, I don't know that it's possible.

Not that it shouldn't be tried. It's better than doing nothing.

OneCrazyDiamond

(2,032 posts)
71. It sounds like you are losing or lost hope.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 11:51 AM
Oct 2019

I see things like in Germany meat consumption is down as signs we are winning.

Hell, even in the good ol' US we are rewriting our food pyramid.

misanthrope

(7,417 posts)
72. The Europeans are ahead, yes
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 01:26 PM
Oct 2019

The biggest problems are in Asia and North America. Americans have a particularly carbon-intensive lifestyle, using resources at a greater rate per capita than any other nation on the planet. The Anthropocene extinction is happening, driven as much by habitat destruction as it is by the CO2 we're pumping into the atmosphere.

The only metric by which I can base my expectations for the future is humanity's track record. "Past is prologue" and all. That track record is horrifying and deplorable.

Response to choie (Original post)

Bayard

(22,075 posts)
34. Michelle Obama
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:39 PM
Oct 2019

I think the first time she was just being polite. Now he's turned it into a thing--like at his father's funeral.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
25. Big IF that Trump will even be alive in 2035. He's currently 73.
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:14 AM
Oct 2019

And if he is still alive by then, there's a damn good chance he'll hardly be in the best of shape. For the record, while his dad lived to be 93, he suffered from Alzheimer's at the end of his life and Donnie's brain seems to be failing him even now.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
31. This thing with Ellen is manufactured outrage
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 05:58 AM
Oct 2019

And nothing more. There are real issues that are far more important than who sits next to who and carries on a civil conversation with them at a sporting event.

I don’t care on wit about either GW or Ellen or Sports, but this manufactured outrage in my opinion is far beyond absurd.

lordsummerisle

(4,651 posts)
51. I think Ellen sees it as
Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:13 PM
Oct 2019

two celebrities (using the word loosely) spending time together. Being a member of the celebrity club trumps any disagreement over politics.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
70. Makes
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:55 AM
Oct 2019

less than zero difference to me one way or the other. The opinions of celebrities are equal in value to the opinions of everyone else.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
61. Yup
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:31 AM
Oct 2019

The manufactured outrage fuels hatred and creates misery.

I'd rather be happy. Ellen seems happy.

ramen

(790 posts)
57. That lack of accountability is dangerous.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:20 AM
Oct 2019

Can you imagine if a Democratic president intentionally and knowingly manufactured a pretext to invade a country, at great cost (so many civilian lives, so many soldiers' lives, and untold trillions of dollars..), and the resulting war destabilized a whole region, and the instability resulted in a fascist theocracy spreading across several nations for a while.. and then, a little while later, we are expected to let those bygones be bygones? For old times sake?

Straight to hell with him, from my perspective. I respect Ellen Degeneres' right to have hers. I just don't share it. Why not have the CEO of Dow on an Indian talk show and make nice about Bhopal?

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
65. I agree with your idea but holding leaders accountable is complicated
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:46 AM
Oct 2019

I agree that the Bush Administration mislead Congress to get them to vote to approve the Iraq invasion. I don't remember very many people in Congress challenging what they were told. It was pretty much a rubber stamp. In fact, they probably would have approved the invasion if Bush would have pointed at Iraq and smirked. Everyone was blood thirsty for revenge after 911, and most Democrats didn't want to be seen as weak on defense or terrorism. The big problem with the war was how poorly it was managed. It was a shit-show of incompetence from the top down. And Bush was incompetent in everything. From wars to domestic issues, his poor judgement was constantly on display.

But I don't see how any of that is a true crime that that you use to punish someone. Our constitution gives the executive branch great leeway. Some take more advantage of it than others.

Had Obama focused on proving Bush a fool when he took office, he probably would not have succeeded at saving the economy or passing ACA or the financial reforms.

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