General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPicture this: it's the year 2035 - 16 years from today
we turn on the tv and who do we see but Ellen Degeneres, or another yakker talking about how Trump deserves our kindness. Or, a Democratic president hugging him like he's their long lost brother. What would your reaction be? Mostly revulsion, right?
Well, it's been 16 years since 2003 when GW Bush lied us into a war and started down the road to becoming a war criminal. I don't know about you, but back then I wouldn't have thought that in such a short time we'd have people treating Bush like he's their warm and fuzzy grandfather, or other such relative.
This is what happens when we don't hold our leaders accountable for their crimes. Among other things, it permits the revisionism that is now occurring. If we - and I include Obama and other politicians in the "we" - had held the Bush administration to account either during his presidency or through a subsequent legal process, we might not be in the situation we're in today. Perhaps our elected officials might understand that there are severe repercussions to their behavior...that we, the American people, wouldn't stand for lies, corruption and unethical policies. And THAT is why we must do what we can do to protect our democracy, and make Trump answer for his crimes and unethical, immoral behavior.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Coventina
(27,120 posts)"let's forget the past, just move forward" attitude.
At the time, I was OK with it, believing that there would never be such a horrible administration ever again!
Boy was I ever wrong.
We all were.....
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)We seem to like doing that but it's sending the wrong message to these people.
Beartracks
(12,814 posts)Disaffected
(4,554 posts)Something about forgetting the lessons of history??
Butterflylady
(3,543 posts)History repeating itself.
I agree, but it didn't start with Obama.
Corporations have taken over our government and the courts.
Ford should have not pardoned Nixon.
The military is rarely held accountable.
The Pentagon is never held accountable.
Our police are rarely held accountable.
Wall Street was not held accountable.
The U.S. has a two tiered justice system.
The U.S. is corrupt.
Trump is increasing that corruption on a grand scale.
It is difficult to have trust in a system that continues to fail those it is meant to protect.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...of supporting ruthless dictators. No leader of the US Empire is going to relish holding predecessors accountable, as they, too, may face the same fate.
This is an ugly truth that most don't want to face. Smedley Butler knew what he was talking about.
SamKnause
(13,106 posts)I describe it as soul crushing.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)DrToast
(6,414 posts)When Michelle Obama was friends with Bush, everyone talked about how classy she was being.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)tandem5
(2,072 posts)that would kinda shut down her argument pretty fast.
sop
(10,186 posts)Initech
(100,076 posts)Given his diet and near complete lack of exercise, a massive coronary will most likely be his downfall. And what's left of his supporters will most likely blame his death on the deep state.
aeromanKC
(3,322 posts)We'll be more likely to see Trump at a parole hearing in 16 years.
Doodley
(9,092 posts)living an ultra-high stressful life. Don't get me wrong. I want him gone now, but he could be around for a long time.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)The only information about his health has been revealed through hack doctors.
And golf isn't exactly what I would call the most physical of sports.
Doodley
(9,092 posts)still playing golf, my life would not revolve around caring for them, taking them to doctors, and getting their prescriptions and groceries.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)He uses golf carts exclusively. That is hardly exercise. You drive to the golf ball, reach into the golf bag for a club, hit the ball, climb back into your golf cart and so on and so on. Thats hardly exercise.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Which would get you and me kicked off any golf course in America. He can't even walk 15 fucking feet to putt a golf ball.
This sad, heart-congested, morbidly obese mofo is simply unfit for office in every way.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)they must have taken very poor care of themselves when younger, or had unfortunate health problems for years.
Doodley
(9,092 posts)didn't put money aside for any care in their older years. They are Republicans. They begrudge healthcare for people who aren't as fortunate as them. But as a good husband, I have to suck it up and be there for my in-laws.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)though I would agree; people in my family have to be in their 80s before you are carting them to the doctor's office and doing errands for them. With them using canes and walkers, etc. In their 70s they were traveling and doing outside things; still driving.
Initech
(100,076 posts)former9thward
(32,009 posts)To fly around the country and speak for a hour and a half at a time or more takes a lot. People in poor health could not do that. I know that all sorts of people will now claim they could do it and they are in their 70s, etc. but that is the beauty of the internet....
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Being nearly 300 pounds when he's 73 is a pretty strong indication of that, as well as his terrible diet and nearly nonexistent lack of exercise (if you have to count golfing and talking at a podium as exercise, you're really straining).
I've seen healthy elderly people. My paternal grandfather was still playing tennis when he was in his early 90s. Some fat asshole opening his ignorant mouth for two hours doesn't impress me.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)I suppose some year they will come true....
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)The fact that he has continuously gone through so much trouble to hide his medical records from the public seems to suggest there's something in them that he doesn't want anyone to see.
Based on his lifestyle and physical appearance, he's unhealthy. Just because he hasn't suffered a major health crisis as of now (at least that we know of) doesn't mean anything. People his age who don't take care of their bodies can be fine one second and then in a whole hell of a lot of trouble the next.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)I will leave that to others. But speaking of medical records I can remember President Obama declined to release his full medical report and just a summary. (Those exams were done by Ronnie Jackson, the person Obama appointed to be his personal physician and is now blasted as some sort of fraud). Presidents try to hide medical conditions and embarrassments. Kennedy was the most famous for doing that. It is human nature. It is just one more thing voters have to consider when deciding who to support.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)When he stood at the podium and made such ridiculous hyperbolic statements as President Asshole being able to live to 150, something no professional doctor would do, I knew he had gone to the dark side.
Other than what Doc Ronny and that other quack doctor in New York have said and I don't trust either of them as far as I could throw them, we know absolutely nothing about Trump's health. Nothing at all. He's the least transparent person to ever tragically obtain the presidency.
Since we know nothing about Trump's health, I have to play internet doctor and make my own assessment based on what I see. Judging from everything I know about healthy eating, exercise, and weight management, he's not healthy and is risking heart disease by continuing to live the way he is. That's common knowledge regardless of whether you're a professional or not.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Which is about as relevant as your own reponse.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,727 posts)He stumbles out waddles to the tee...swipes at a little ball...gets in the cart is driven to the ball...gets out...swipes at a ball... is driven....come on thats not an indicator of being in good health. I know guys in their 70s that can chop a few cords of wood for heat in the winter or still grab the shovel and clean out the roadside ditch in front of the house and none of them would wear anything like he is.
Oh yeah... Im a short couple of years behind them and Im sitting here after lunch just finishing up clearing a 20 x 220 piece of my backyard for our new blueberry and raspberry garden for next year.
Reclaimed from our old field.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Bush was just a normal rotten Republican President. Trump is a monster.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)
lunatica This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)I will cancel the post. It wasnt meant as a personal attack on you.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)We're all going to feel so much better when the orange menace is gone.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)33taw
(2,443 posts)Doodley
(9,092 posts)roamer65
(36,745 posts)Doodley
(9,092 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Then again, it shouldn't amaze me given how much denial and ignorance there is.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)I did...and it isnt.
Reality eventually bites everyone. In 2035, reality is going to bite harder than a T Rex.
OneCrazyDiamond
(2,032 posts)That won't happen. We see clearly what the opposition is, and will move quickly. Young Democrats like AOC have the vision and focus we need to avoid that hellish scenario.
misanthrope
(7,417 posts)However, what's coming in 2035 is already in the pipeline on the way to us. Look at how the data coming in is beyond what were conservative estimates for changes to the climate and ecosphere. Any changes enacted soon will be in hopes of staving off the rising effects in the latter half of the century.
That said, I'm doubtful enough gets done in time. I don't have enough faith in our species being able to act swiftly enough in such massive numbers. It's so inherently problematic, I don't know that it's possible.
Not that it shouldn't be tried. It's better than doing nothing.
OneCrazyDiamond
(2,032 posts)I see things like in Germany meat consumption is down as signs we are winning.
Hell, even in the good ol' US we are rewriting our food pyramid.
misanthrope
(7,417 posts)The biggest problems are in Asia and North America. Americans have a particularly carbon-intensive lifestyle, using resources at a greater rate per capita than any other nation on the planet. The Anthropocene extinction is happening, driven as much by habitat destruction as it is by the CO2 we're pumping into the atmosphere.
The only metric by which I can base my expectations for the future is humanity's track record. "Past is prologue" and all. That track record is horrifying and deplorable.
Response to choie (Original post)
Lock him up. This message was self-deleted by its author.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Bayard
(22,075 posts)I think the first time she was just being polite. Now he's turned it into a thing--like at his father's funeral.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)And if he is still alive by then, there's a damn good chance he'll hardly be in the best of shape. For the record, while his dad lived to be 93, he suffered from Alzheimer's at the end of his life and Donnie's brain seems to be failing him even now.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Dirty Socialist
(3,252 posts)He voted for "none of the above"
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)And nothing more. There are real issues that are far more important than who sits next to who and carries on a civil conversation with them at a sporting event.
I dont care on wit about either GW or Ellen or Sports, but this manufactured outrage in my opinion is far beyond absurd.
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)two celebrities (using the word loosely) spending time together. Being a member of the celebrity club trumps any disagreement over politics.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I really don't care what Ellen thinks one way or the other.
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)less than zero difference to me one way or the other. The opinions of celebrities are equal in value to the opinions of everyone else.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)The manufactured outrage fuels hatred and creates misery.
I'd rather be happy. Ellen seems happy.
Mike Niendorff
(3,461 posts)K&R.
MDN
OneCrazyDiamond
(2,032 posts)but Russia put trump in....
Demonaut
(8,917 posts)ramen
(790 posts)Can you imagine if a Democratic president intentionally and knowingly manufactured a pretext to invade a country, at great cost (so many civilian lives, so many soldiers' lives, and untold trillions of dollars..), and the resulting war destabilized a whole region, and the instability resulted in a fascist theocracy spreading across several nations for a while.. and then, a little while later, we are expected to let those bygones be bygones? For old times sake?
Straight to hell with him, from my perspective. I respect Ellen Degeneres' right to have hers. I just don't share it. Why not have the CEO of Dow on an Indian talk show and make nice about Bhopal?
Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)I agree that the Bush Administration mislead Congress to get them to vote to approve the Iraq invasion. I don't remember very many people in Congress challenging what they were told. It was pretty much a rubber stamp. In fact, they probably would have approved the invasion if Bush would have pointed at Iraq and smirked. Everyone was blood thirsty for revenge after 911, and most Democrats didn't want to be seen as weak on defense or terrorism. The big problem with the war was how poorly it was managed. It was a shit-show of incompetence from the top down. And Bush was incompetent in everything. From wars to domestic issues, his poor judgement was constantly on display.
But I don't see how any of that is a true crime that that you use to punish someone. Our constitution gives the executive branch great leeway. Some take more advantage of it than others.
Had Obama focused on proving Bush a fool when he took office, he probably would not have succeeded at saving the economy or passing ACA or the financial reforms.